'C' or 'PD' ?

[octaf]

Hello folks !

I love the appearance of 'PD'. I can't take my eyes off it when I look at it. I personally think PD's a king of design. Unbeatable !

But when it comes to everyday flashlighting, I feel the 'C' is more friendly. Because I can latch on the light without turning the head, or keep pressing the switch.

So folks, which one do you love more?

 

[Roccomo]

PD

 

[brighterisbetter]

While I don't own any McGizmo 'C' lights, I do like clickies on my around the house users. So for me, 'PD' on anything Ti, and 'C' for anything else, if that makes any sense. I think a Sundrop-PD would be sweet.

 

[AMRaider]

Both are really nice, but I have a slight preference for the PD pack. It's a bit shorter, so I find it to be more pocket friendly. Also I like the "all metal" look.

 

[Kiessling]

PD.
The instant low and high are a very nice interface. And the concept is soooo innovative and cool, and it is CPF-born. The all-metal end of those lights is sexier than anything else. No rubber-covered switch can beat that.

PD.

Of course, with the increasing flux of modern LEDs there will come a time where a third level of light is desired and necessary to cover the dynamic range the LEDs offer ... and I think then the PD concept will have to step aside for something else. At least in lights bright like hell.

bernie

 

[js]

No contest: PD all the way.

I am so, so, sooooo glad to be rid of rubber booties on my EDC light FOREVER. God. I used to have to buy a new LOTC every year for my A2 because I couldn't stand the feel of the smoothed out rubber of a worn-in LOTC. And even new, I never liked the feel of rubber. I liked the ergonomics of the switch itself, the throw length, and action and all that . . . but the rubber feel was never a plus for me. Quite the contrary.

Now, I never have to deal with that again, and there is no way in aitch eeee double hockey sticks that I would go back to a switch with a rubber boot for my EDC. Never again.

Can you tell I feel strongly about this subject? This also extends to the PD mechanism as a whole! It's simply the best! I love it. I'm thrilled with it.

 

[souptree]

PD!!

Unless I am on trail, in which case it would be:

PD and PD!!

Because I carry 2.

:thumbsup:

 

[Dog Chaser]

PD.
PD.

Of course, with the increasing flux of modern LEDs there will come a time where a third level of light is desired and necessary to cover the dynamic range the LEDs offer ... and I think then the PD concept will have to step aside for something else. At least in lights bright like hell.

bernie

Bernie,

I'm far from an engineer, so if this is a crazy thought please discard it as such, but couldn't a head be designed with a second kilroy that would enable a third level? The second level would likely be difficult to maintain using the switch, but could easily be accessed by twisting the head. If nothing else JS (and many others) would be happy with the continued PD form factor.

Dog

 

[Kiessling]

I am no engineer either, but IIRC Don once said it was possible but difficult to achieve AND use ... tus defeating the KISS concept. Or something like this.

 

[Steve L]

Hi Bernie,

The Arc6 gives you 3 levels using a PD system. You get the third or virtual level by quickly pressing the PD (or quickly turning the head) to high from off (bypassing low). Don mentioned in a post awhile back that it could be possible for a virtual third stage in a LS 27 that could be ~700ma to the Cree. This is what I recall and I believe Don was just talking about possibilities using that driver, not that he was working on it. It would be Great though!!!

It's the PD for me for a few reasons.
1 You eliminate the tail switch.
2 You have the PD for momentary and twist the head for constant on.
3. It just looks Cool.

 

[McGizmo]

It is possible to arrange for a three level PD activation but like mentioned, the twisty activation would be more consistent and sure than the piston activation. For reliable and good feeling piston activation, I think you need to have both linear travel and ramping up of force so that you don't inadvertently overshoot the desired level. For many, the force required in the two speed piston is more than acceptable. Adding a third speed is no help here!

Now there is the tactical requirement of some that a light can not be accidentally latched on. The piston activation complies with this requirement. For the majority of users though, I doubt this requirement holds.

It is possible to use the piston strictly as a momentary single contact device and then incorporate a UI to take you through multiple levels. I believe some have modded the PD's with the FluPic (sp) and possibly other UI based converters?!? I have successfully used the PD to activate a proto GDuP converter with three speeds. Once I get some inventory of a new 3 speed converter in the works I will probably experiment with it and a PD pak.

HOWEVER, once and if you move to a UI of multiple levels, where it is resident in the converter itself, it is difficult to ignore the utility of using a clickie switch where you can simply and easily activate a latched mode of the selected level. I have a proto 3 speed with the McClickie Pak and for me it is just too simple and easy and straight forward to consider encumbering with a PD mode of activation. :shrug:

I too like the PD though I doubt I can be completely objective in its regard. However I am also equally fond of the McClickie switch and especially now with the silicone boot. Should the Silicone boot wear out, I can replace it in less than a minute; no tools required. The switch stays put.

Where the PD reigns king for me is in the LunaSol series. The low level flood is always available without any need or real chance of blasting on or through the high level. I often use the LunaSol twisted on into low and having quick momentary access of high is just real nice and useful.

Although many of us will use the PD activation for rather long momentary bursts, it does require a significant amount of force and for many, this is a problem. It really is a momentary mode and the duration of the moment is dictated by the user and their comfort/ strength level. The twist mode on the otherhand can be of any duration required and this includes what some might consider momentary.

Ultimately, I think both C and PD have their place and advantages. :shrug:

 

[Kiessling]

Steve ... I am an obsessive KISS guy ... and the Arc6, as interesting as it might be, doesn't comply here.

 

[precisionworks]

Ultimately, I think both C and PD have their place and advantages.

+1

I like both. There isn't a better click switch on the market - which is the major flaw in most other brands. Two of my EDC's are two level twist, one is two level PD, the other is one level click.

Developing the SunDrop from a one level click to a three speed click is what I'm waiting for

 

[carrot]

No matter how good Don's C switches are, I can't imagine a better switching system than that of the PD.

 

[nakahoshi]

PD all the way

-Bobby

 

[iconoclast]

...

Where the PD reigns king for me is in the LunaSol series. The low level flood is always available without any need or real chance of blasting on or through the high level. I often use the LunaSol twisted on into low and having quick momentary access of high is just real nice and useful.

Although many of us will use the PD activation for rather long momentary bursts, it does require a significant amount of force and for many, this is a problem. It really is a momentary mode and the duration of the moment is dictated by the user and their comfort/ strength level. The twist mode on the otherhand can be of any duration required and this includes what some might consider momentary.

Ultimately, I think both C and PD have their place and advantages. :shrug:

I'll certainly agree that they both have their advantages and disadvantages.

As for the piston/momentary, twist/latched combo, my only issue with it is that you have to change grip to go from one to the other. I'm often using the momentary when I decide/realize that I'll need the light on for a bit longer than initially thought. The forward clicky gives the option of going easily from momentary to latched, but at the expense of the extra level.

There have beens software solutions to each of these issues, but often resulting in other trade offs that for me at least, usually end up less desirable than the problem they're solving. (example: momentary contact switches end up with converters that have a small battery draw even when off.)
Once you get into 3+ levels, software control is the clear winner, but personally I rarely ever find the need for more than 2 levels.

So the answer to the original question is that it depends on the light. As Don mentions, for a LunaSol light PD is a clear winner. I rarely use the low on my (ti) Mule, so a clicky is a good solution there (Aleph one-stage style).

For the less specialized circumstances, (i.e. standard one-led reflectored light) it's less cut-n-dry. I haven't got my hands on a McLux-III c-pak yet, but I suspect there's a slight advantage for it in these circumstances. That is, momentary or latched from the clicky end, multiple levels from the twisty end. The possible disadvantage there is that the two methods could conflict with each other, depending on how you use it. I'll guess I'll have to try it to see if it works for me or not.

So... umm... "all of the above". :nana:

 

[js]

. . .

However I am also equally fond of the McClickie switch and especially now with the silicone boot. Should the Silicone boot wear out, I can replace it in less than a minute; no tools required. The switch stays put.

. . .

This sounds very good, as far as rubber boots go! Silicone, and boot-only replaceable. Nice.

:thinking: I don't suppose the McClickie switch silicone boot would fit an A2/L2/L1 LOTC, would it Don?

 

[souptree]

In my magical world where I can just nod my head like Jeanne and make everything work in an instant, here is how my 3 level PD would function:

- PD NEVER allows access to more than 2 levels.

- Twisted to OFF - PD access LOW and HIGH

- Twisted to LOW - PD access MED and HIGH

- Twisted to MED - PD access HIGH

- Twisted to HIGH - in my magical world, this would be impossible/undesirable because high would be tuned to a burst only level that is only safe for momentary usage. Another option here would be a thermal stepdown protection feature where the light determines when it's time to throttle back based on the heat.

Thank you and I will go back to bed now to dream about unicorns and sea monsters and other fantastic things. :wave:

 

[starfiretoo]

I found a novel use of the Cx2 pak and if i had one perhaps the C pak. By putting a resistor across the switch a 3rd level could be had using a modified LS27 head.
1. Low Flood - preserve night vision
2. High Flood - uneven urban lighting
3. High Spot - distance

 

[octaf]

Hi Bernie,

The Arc6 gives you 3 levels using a PD system. You get the third or virtual level by quickly pressing the PD (or quickly turning the head) to high from off (bypassing low). Don mentioned in a post awhile back that it could be possible for a virtual third stage in a LS 27 that could be ~700ma to the Cree. This is what I recall and I believe Don was just talking about possibilities using that driver, not that he was working on it. It would be Great though!!!

It's the PD for me for a few reasons.
1 You eliminate the tail switch.
2 You have the PD for momentary and twist the head for constant on.
3. It just looks Cool.

There is also nitecore adopting the 'PD' concept.
But I see quite a few 'error report' - their PD switches not functioning after some time used, and only the 'head turning' works.
I don't know how much of the difference there is btw Arc6 and nitecore, exactly. But I personally think that it would be nice if I can have Don's PD with some complex-possibility. And of course, it's getting far away from the 'KISS'.