Caving light for first trip... and helmet advice?

[steveG]

Hi folks,

After years of being fascinated by caves and such I've decided to actually try it for myself to see if it's something I'd like to get into. I signed up for Speleo-Ed 2009 (next weekend) and am trying to prep my gear. Since this is my first trip, I don't have anything specific or optimal for caving, but I think I can get by with what I've already got on hand. I was hoping you guys could tell me if I'm on the right track.

For a headlamp I'm talking my Zebralight H30-Q5 for back up and will be using my modified Cheapo Rayovac 3-in-one headlamp as my primary. I also figured out that I can attach my E1L or E2DL (with diffuser) to the strap using the extra silicone bracket that came with my Zebralight.

To my eyes, the large LED (used to be incandescent) on the Rayovac is as bright as my stock 6P, so I figure that should be enough light. Right?

What do you guys think? Will this suffice for my first trip?

Lastly, although a helmet is not lighting related, I thought some of the members here could help. I realize it might not be ideal, but I already have a skateboarding/cycling/multi-use helmet. It seems to me that it's built to withstand the same typed of impacts (except maybe for huge rocks falling on your head) and that it would protect me just fine, but I'd like to get some more experienced opinions on the subject. Do I need to buy a climbing or caving specific helmet?

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[Lumencraft (Matt)]

Hi steve,

For me a good rule of thumb has always been 3 sources of light. 1) A head lamp, just about anything will do for this provided it has a decent run time IMHO it doesn't even have to be super bright, you can upgrade later. 2) A decent compact hand held is what I usually try to get most of my light from, but it should be small enough you can holster, pocket etc it so you can be basically hands free for climbing etc. 3) You should have of course extra batteries, and my head lamp is incan so I have also an extra bulb, but if you are going to get serious about caving and go on extended or tough trips, a back up for your backups is good ie a 3rd source of emergency light. Doesn't have to be super bright just enough to find your way out if you absolutely had to use it. As far as a helmet goes I am no super pro, but I have used a hard hat with a chin strap, and just the other day I purchased a bicycle helmet for this use as well (I have a friend who also uses a bike helmet ) for me the helmet is mostly to protect your head from bumping, or in case the climber in front of you knocks something loose, and not so much for falling. I do recommend having a chin strap though.

Hope you have fun...

 

[steveG]

Deleted.

 

[gillestugan]

Hi
Hope you have a good caving trip. In my opinion your lamps are very good for your first trip. You will be surprised how little light the eyes need and you will be able to use the lower levels on the lamps (unless you have age related lower sensitivity). All of your lamps give better light than the average electric caving lamp 10 years ago. I have many friends who have strapped normal bulky flashlight without diffuser to the helmet, kept extra lamp in pocket or simply held it in the hands. Very inconvenient, but works fine unless you will do some climbing. (which you usually don't do with beginners) They had a great experience and will have a even greater next time when they bring a headlamp.
For the same reason (not climbing) i am sure you will be fine with your skateboard helmet. Just be prepared to get som scratches on it from bumping your head.
Have fun!

 

[sORe-EyEz]

does the headlamp's strap sit securely on the helmet? :shrug:

i wouldn't want the strapto get caught anywhere & get ripped off... :sick2:

 

[steveG]

Hi steve,

For me a good rule of thumb has always been 3 sources of light. 1) A head lamp, just about anything will do for this provided it has a decent run time IMHO it doesn't even have to be super bright, you can upgrade later. 2) A decent compact hand held is what I usually try to get most of my light from, but it should be small enough you can holster, pocket etc it so you can be basically hands free for climbing etc. 3) You should have of course extra batteries, and my head lamp is incan so I have also an extra bulb, but if you are going to get serious about caving and go on extended or tough trips, a back up for your backups is good ie a 3rd source of emergency light. Doesn't have to be super bright just enough to find your way out if you absolutely had to use it. As far as a helmet goes I am no super pro, but I have used a hard hat with a chin strap, and just the other day I purchased a bicycle helmet for this use as well (I have a friend who also uses a bike helmet ) for me the helmet is mostly to protect your head from bumping, or in case the climber in front of you knocks something loose, and not so much for falling. I do recommend having a chin strap though.

Hope you have fun...

Thanks! I'll have several lights as well as batteries on hand. I probably won't start with the E1L on the strap but I figured it would be good to have the option. I'll have it, the Zebralight and one other flashlight with me.

Hi
Hope you have a good caving trip. In my opinion your lamps are very good for your first trip. You will be surprised how little light the eyes need and you will be able to use the lower levels on the lamps (unless you have age related lower sensitivity). All of your lamps give better light than the average electric caving lamp 10 years ago. I have many friends who have strapped normal bulky flashlight without diffuser to the helmet, kept extra lamp in pocket or simply held it in the hands. Very inconvenient, but works fine unless you will do some climbing. (which you usually don't do with beginners) They had a great experience and will have a even greater next time when they bring a headlamp.
For the same reason (not climbing) i am sure you will be fine with your skateboard helmet. Just be prepared to get som scratches on it from bumping your head.
Have fun!

Thanks for help!

does the headlamp's strap sit securely on the helmet? :shrug:

Not yet, but I'll figure out a way to secure it. Thanks!

 

[Marduke]

It sounds like you have your light sources just about covered. Your three sources of light are helmet mounted capable, so that's good. Make sure to have enough batteries to last at least twice as long as the trip should last in every battery format you are carrying.

I also recommend another small backup worn around your neck. A Photon Freedom or Fenix E01 type light works well. If you have cells that need changing, or something happens to your primary on your helmet, you'll need some quick source of light to fix it, or dig in your pack to get things sorted out.


As long as the helmet has a working 4 point chin strap, it's just fine for horizontal caves. In horizontal caves, the helmet is just to protect you from bumping your head on the ceiling, which you will do quite often your first couple trips.

If you ever get more serious into caving, you will learn what you want to upgrade to. Probably something lighter, and better breathing. I personally hate foam lined helmets in favor of suspension helmets, even though they are a tad bulkier.

I have two skateboarding helmets for loaner helmets, mainly because I bought them cheap at a thrift store for 99 cents each. I personally use a Ecrin Roc.

PS
Take 1 Imodium and 2 Aleve the morning of your trip. Don't ask....

 

[tnuckels]

PS Take 1 Imodium and 2 Aleve the morning of your trip. Don't ask....

Don't:
Drink the water
Eat the yellow snow
Tug on Superman's cape
Spit into the wind
Pull the mask off of the Lone Ranger
And you don't mess around with JIM … ♪ ♫ ♪

 

[steveG]

I also recommend another small backup worn around your neck. A Photon Freedom or Fenix E01 type light works well.

I was planning on wearing my E1L on a lanyard around my neck, but something smaller would probably be better. Thanks.

PS
Take 1 Imodium and 2 Aleve the morning of your trip. Don't ask....

Ha! Roger that.

Marduke, is a pack like the one in your pic as big as one should take or will a small back pack be OK?

Thanks, everyone, for the info. It's very helpful.

 

[Marduke]

Marduke, is a pack like the one in your pic as big as one should take or will a small back pack be OK?

Thanks, everyone, for the info. It's very helpful.

Pack size varies from person to person. People tend to pack way more than they need their first trip, especially flashaholics

Most people will use regular backpacks, or purpose made caving packs. I've seen some use old surplus gasmask bags or something similar.

I am currently using a $10 WalMart fanny pack that holds two .5L water bottles. It doesn't hold a lot, but I don't need it to for horizontal trips.

What pack you use depends a lot on the caves you go through. If you are vertical, you need room for harnesses and ropes. If you do a lot of crawling, a pack that you can drag behind you is a good idea. Most prefer a bag with some level of waterproofness, I simply waterproof individual items inside my very un-waterproof bag.

One thing is for certain. Don't use a backpack that has a lot of webbing, or other attachments on the back side that will easily snag when crawling or walking stooped over. The more clean looking the back side, the better. That's one reason I like a fanny pack for caving. I can simply turn it to the front when I have to crawl or walk stopped, so it doesn't get caught on the ceiling.

 

[steveG]

People tend to pack way more than they need their first trip, especially flashaholics

Yeah, I tend to pack more than I need no matter where I'm going....

Stripped of all it's attachments and extra straps the Malaga is not bad, but it still has the webbing. Maybe I'll check out the local thrift stores for a cheap bag I don't mind ruining.

Thanks again for all the help!

 

[cave dave]

I think you will be fine with what you have for now. If its a big event they will have vendors so bring a full wallet

Here is a link to a caving Grotto documents page. I sometimes teach the new caver orientation, based on these documents.

Read Document 6 & 7
Orientation and equipment check list

other safety and techniques
http://www.caves.org/safety/articles.shtml

Look into joining a local grotto through the contacts on this page.

http://www.nssio.org/Find_Grotto.cfm

Good luck and have Fun!

 

[Marduke]

Here are two more Caving 101 documents
http://www.caves.org/grotto/huntsville/docs/New Caver Info.pdf

http://www.caves.org/safety/safety.shtml

 

[steveG]

Thank you for the links, guys. Lots of good info!

After looking into the helmets is seems that the "climbing" helmets are all suspension type. Is this right?

 

[Marduke]

Some are suspension, some are foam. I suggest going to several stores and trying some on, or trying on those of people you are caving with. How a helmet fits is very specific for every person. It's a bit like buying high end shoes online without trying one on.

Once you find a style and size that fits and feels good, you can shop for the cheapest place to get one.

But for your first trip, you should be fine with what you have.

 

[Burgess]

And be sure to tell us all about it, when you return.


Good Luck !

_

 

[kevinm]

+1 on the secure light attachment to the helmet. Zip ties through holes melted in the helmet with a cheap soldering iron work well. Drilling is second best (more fatigue/chance of cracking). I've had lights get pulled off in crawls.

As for packs, something with no zippers is best. You wouldn't believe how little mud it takes to make your pack unclosable after you have to rip the zipper open. A small pack is good for starting. If you really like caving and someone has Swaygo packs there for sale, get one. That was my second best (after Essential Gear knee and elbow pads) purchase.

You want a tiny light around your neck because it will end up in your mouth if you have to use it to get things out of your pack and having a big light banging into your sternum sucks.

Have fun! Some of my best times have been underground...

Kevin

 

[steveG]

+1 on the secure light attachment to the helmet. Zip ties through holes melted in the helmet with a cheap soldering iron work well. Drilling is second best (more fatigue/chance of cracking). I've had lights get pulled off in crawls.

As for packs, something with no zippers is best. You wouldn't believe how little mud it takes to make your pack unclosable after you have to rip the zipper open. A small pack is good for starting. If you really like caving and someone has Swaygo packs there for sale, get one. That was my second best (after Essential Gear knee and elbow pads) purchase.

You want a tiny light around your neck because it will end up in your mouth if you have to use it to get things out of your pack and having a big light banging into your sternum sucks.

Have fun! Some of my best times have been underground...

Kevin

Thanks Kevin,

The soldering iron for putting holes in the helmet is a good idea... I was thinking about drilling some holes in mine. I think for this trip I'm just going to strap everything on then use duct tape to keep it from coming off. Ugly but effective.

I checked out the Swaygo packs. They look good, but it seems like a single strap would work better because they're easier to relocate from back to side or to front. It seems like that would be beneficial. Thoughts?

 

[kevinm]

I wouldn't count on duct tape. It's not great wet or cold, and the cave is likely to be both unless you are in Mexico or close to it.

I don't know anyone who's done this for a while who prefers a single strap. I had an army satchet with a single strap and had problems with it swinging into my way. The Swaygo is flat enough that I seldom have to take it off, even in tight crawls. The other really good type that I have used was the Lost Creek pack (TAG, I think).

Try out a few; you can almost always convince another caver to let you carry his/her pack for a bit.

Kevin

 

[gillestugan]

I wouldn't count on duct tape. It's not great wet or cold, and the cave is likely to be both unless you are in Mexico or close to it.
Kevin

I think it will be fine as long as you use a duct tape with good quality adhesive, like the 3M for example. (cheap tape is usually bad in those conditions)
I have used duct tape both under water and in temperatures below freezing with no problems. The tape and the surface you tape has to be warm an clean when you apply it, but once it's in place its usually fine.
I wouldn't recommend drilling holes in the helmet if you are still going to use it as a biking helmet.