Hey guys. Once again I am looking for an EDC light to replace/go along with my iTP A3. Maybe the big one in the pocket and the little on the keys. What I want may not be reality. I want an HDS Custom 140 tight beam with tacitcal op and flush button, but I do not think my parents are thrilled spending or should I say "wasting" 140 dollars plus shipping on "just a flashlight" for me. What I really would like to have is a crenelated bezel. I've decided I need one for self defense purposes at school because obviously I'm not allowed to have a knife. Godforbid I ever have to use it though. Recommend me a good high output 1xCR123 with good crenellations. Must have flush button. No twisties!!! I have looked at dereelight, eagletac, fenix and 4sevens and none of them have crenellations if my memory serves me right. Thanks for your help.
CR123 EDC
- Thread starter Cole07
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computernut
Enlightened
Nitecore EX10 might be suitable. I think the stainless steel bezel is removable so you might be able to find something crenelated. I have the D10 (AA) and I love the clip.
Quension
Newly Enlightened
The crenelated bezel is probably the sticking point. None of the CR123 lights that come to mind for me have one, although it's not something I specifically look for. I just checked Coleman, but it seems they've gotten rid of the crenelations on their entire line, though they never had much in the way of CR123 options anyway.
Keep in mind that depending on where you are and the exact situation, crenelations are sometimes used to classify a device as a weapon, so it may not be something you want to be very visible anyway. A light with a heavy, solid build could be just as useful as a general strike tool, it just won't focus kinetic energy into points. That might open up more options for finding one at least.
Keep in mind that depending on where you are and the exact situation, crenelations are sometimes used to classify a device as a weapon, so it may not be something you want to be very visible anyway. A light with a heavy, solid build could be just as useful as a general strike tool, it just won't focus kinetic energy into points. That might open up more options for finding one at least.
what about novatac?
http://www.novatac.com/
I personally think a crenelated bezel isnt THAT necessary. Sure they look cool but if I keep it in my pocket, Id want my light to be easy to pull out and put back in, I dont want to risk cutting a whole in my pants or what not. If you want something for "self defense" for school why not get a self defense pen.
Flashlights are good for self defense, especially at night when an attackers vision is adjusted to the dark, but when your at school and its bright already not AS effective but still somewhat.
http://www.novatac.com/
I personally think a crenelated bezel isnt THAT necessary. Sure they look cool but if I keep it in my pocket, Id want my light to be easy to pull out and put back in, I dont want to risk cutting a whole in my pants or what not. If you want something for "self defense" for school why not get a self defense pen.
Flashlights are good for self defense, especially at night when an attackers vision is adjusted to the dark, but when your at school and its bright already not AS effective but still somewhat.
mcnair55
Flashlight Enthusiast
I think the Uzi pen would do more damage than a light,makes a right mess of ripping your keks(pants),sharp thing it is,cost me more in new trousers than the pen did in the first place.
I have considered a pen like that before, but I'm afraid it would get stolen way to easy because it would be out constantly and I might leave it somewhere. With a flashlight, I won't constantly have it out so I don't have to worry near as much about loss. I do want crenelations no matter what. This summer I was on the bus getting ready to leave for a wrestling camp, and some senior decided he didn't like where I put my bags for the trip (on the seat next to me). He told me to move it and I didn't so he just grabbed me from behind and choked me out until I passed out and slammed into the bus window. First thing I was thinking is where is my Maglite because that would be my go to non weapon defense weapon, but it wasn't night and it was zipped up in my bag. Obviosuly I did not have my knife, so I had no way to defend myself basically. I think a light with big deep crenellations that will always be on my person will be much help if the situation ever arises again. I think I could stick it in his arm next time. I regret not having a knife or something on that day. It did'nt go well for me. So now before school starts up I am looking for my own bit of legal personal defense to have on my person all day.
Cesiumsponge
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Anything can be construed as a weapon by the law. It doesn't matter if its an entirely non-weapon item like a tube of lip balm because as soon as you employ it as a weapon, it becomes a weapon. Crenelations are nice but they can also chew up the liner of your pocket, depending on how aggressive they are so keep that in mind for EDC use.
As a striking surface, hitting with the edge of a smooth bezel is going to hurt about as much as getting hit with a crenelation, and it's only really effective on areas with bone immediately underneath, such as a collar bone strike. If you're striking fleshy surfaces, 1/8" depth of crenelation doesn't really do anything. If you're really employing it in a dire life-or-death situation, the small cuts augmented by crenelations doesn't stop an attacker. If this is just some school yard fight or bullying, you've made a great tactical error.
I don't know who I'm more worried about...the bully or you.
You could have avoided this entire situation by setting aside your ego and moving, even if you were in the right and had no obligation to move. You escalated it by refusing to comply and he escalated it one step further with an assault. Funny thing is bullies (who graduate into criminals) will blatantly give you verbal commands of what they want from you and people seem oblivious. There are red flags and you can avoid confrontation by acquiescing and de-escalating a situation. Complying to avoid confrontation is always 100% better than confrontation if possible. The criminal (or bully in this case) picks the time and the place for a reason. They have an advantage you're not aware of. This applies later in life if someone at a bar or on the road flips out and wants to pick a fight. Apologize and tell them you're sorry even if it isn't your fault, buy the guy a beer, and they'll feel triumphant and go on their way. Life is too short to risk escalating something to a deadly confrontation. The weapon doesn't come out unless it is a life-or-death situation and all efforts of negotiation are out the window. You can't just stab someone because he called you something nasty.
The fact that you would have pulled a knife, if given the opportunity, on someone who was bullying you on a bus full of other people is worrisome.
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ayglass
Newly Enlightened
Consider also that a 1x123 format light is not usually long enough to protrude from the sides of your closed hand. Most of the self-defense techniques I've seen require that the light fill your grip and protrude on at least one side.
You might want a good light for those situations at night that can be handled by temporarily blinding your opponent and walking away. In the daytime the most defensible techniques are unarmed techniques. Especially at school.
Been there, done that. The football player got expelled *after* he got out of the hospital. I finished my degree...
- Andy
You might want a good light for those situations at night that can be handled by temporarily blinding your opponent and walking away. In the daytime the most defensible techniques are unarmed techniques. Especially at school.
Been there, done that. The football player got expelled *after* he got out of the hospital. I finished my degree...
- Andy
If thrown into a life or death situation like I was in, would you have pulled your concealed carry weapon? I know I would have if only I was of legal age and had my permit. I know that a light with crenellations would not have helped in this situation at all, but for future situations I may need it. I try to stay out of stuff like that. That is the first bad situation I've been put in involving an assualt and use of deadly physical force ever... AGAINST ME. He had no right in any circumstance to do what he did. I am offended by the above post. No need to apoligize though because whats done is done. I now regret explaining why I may need a light like this.
Any moderator please feel free to close up this thread. I am throughly disgusted.
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Cesiumsponge
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You can be disgusted as you want but you need to take a step back.
a) I would have moved my bags which would have solved the problem
b) I would not have pulled out my sidearm because that was not a life or death situation
c) going from zero-to-firearm is a big leap which would exceed equal force and you should have other tools in your toolbox
You were on a bus full of young adults going to summer wrestling camp. He was a senior in high school. You are what I assume a junior or freshman. That is the data you have provided. You're seriously arguing that he was going to murder you on the bus full of your peers and witnesses? Obviously your hypothesis is incorrect because you're still around. If you happened to be 21, had a handgun, and killed him, you just earned yourself a trip to prison.
There are very specific circumstances that must be satisfied before you can use lethal force, and very specific training is required to recognize furtive movement and pre-assaultive behavior. Without those training tools, you
a) easily overstep legal bounds that qualify as self-defense because you have no idea where the boundaries are
b) have no idea how to tactically evaluate the situation and react appropriately
c) have no credibility or training to show in a court of law.
Bullies and criminals are selfish. It would behoove you to understand the bully/criminal mentality. They want something from you which is why they confront you with demands. If you don't give it to them, they'll take it. If this guy was going to choke you out regardless, he wouldn't have said anything to you to begin with and choked you out. He did it to satisfy his ego and show off to his friends by roughing you up because you refused to submit to his stupid demand. The simple thing to do was just move your bags even if you weren't morally obligated to.
Marc "Animal" MacYoung is a well known (or hated) self-defense instructor who has a fantastic blog on the criminal mindset and how to de-escalate lethal situations, and it applies to bullying. Really, I suggest you or anyone read it before you run around and carry some sort of weapon. Spend a couple evenings reading the writings to understand the beast you're going against. Defending yourself is pointless if you don't understand the foe. Most people don't recognize red flags or ways out and due to ego or adrenaline, subconsciously escalate the situations into something physical. You might be "new to the game" but the rules are already in place, whether you are familiar with them or not.
Start here, a guide to de-escalation: http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/deescalation.htm
Best way to get attacked: http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/get_attacked.htm
And to bring this back on topic, I prefer crenelations, but for the mundane practical purpose when I set it down on a table. In my opinion, they provide some benefit over a smooth bezel as a striking tool, but only if you know how to use it, like a kubotan. The Fenix LD20 is a long, slim unit that works perfectly but that doesn't fit your requirements since it's 2xAA. A benefit of a longer light is that you reduce your chances of injuring your hand/fist/fingers/knuckles when you make a fist around the light.
a) I would have moved my bags which would have solved the problem
b) I would not have pulled out my sidearm because that was not a life or death situation
c) going from zero-to-firearm is a big leap which would exceed equal force and you should have other tools in your toolbox
You were on a bus full of young adults going to summer wrestling camp. He was a senior in high school. You are what I assume a junior or freshman. That is the data you have provided. You're seriously arguing that he was going to murder you on the bus full of your peers and witnesses? Obviously your hypothesis is incorrect because you're still around. If you happened to be 21, had a handgun, and killed him, you just earned yourself a trip to prison.
There are very specific circumstances that must be satisfied before you can use lethal force, and very specific training is required to recognize furtive movement and pre-assaultive behavior. Without those training tools, you
a) easily overstep legal bounds that qualify as self-defense because you have no idea where the boundaries are
b) have no idea how to tactically evaluate the situation and react appropriately
c) have no credibility or training to show in a court of law.
Bullies and criminals are selfish. It would behoove you to understand the bully/criminal mentality. They want something from you which is why they confront you with demands. If you don't give it to them, they'll take it. If this guy was going to choke you out regardless, he wouldn't have said anything to you to begin with and choked you out. He did it to satisfy his ego and show off to his friends by roughing you up because you refused to submit to his stupid demand. The simple thing to do was just move your bags even if you weren't morally obligated to.
Marc "Animal" MacYoung is a well known (or hated) self-defense instructor who has a fantastic blog on the criminal mindset and how to de-escalate lethal situations, and it applies to bullying. Really, I suggest you or anyone read it before you run around and carry some sort of weapon. Spend a couple evenings reading the writings to understand the beast you're going against. Defending yourself is pointless if you don't understand the foe. Most people don't recognize red flags or ways out and due to ego or adrenaline, subconsciously escalate the situations into something physical. You might be "new to the game" but the rules are already in place, whether you are familiar with them or not.
Start here, a guide to de-escalation: http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/deescalation.htm
Best way to get attacked: http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/get_attacked.htm
And to bring this back on topic, I prefer crenelations, but for the mundane practical purpose when I set it down on a table. In my opinion, they provide some benefit over a smooth bezel as a striking tool, but only if you know how to use it, like a kubotan. The Fenix LD20 is a long, slim unit that works perfectly but that doesn't fit your requirements since it's 2xAA. A benefit of a longer light is that you reduce your chances of injuring your hand/fist/fingers/knuckles when you make a fist around the light.
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I agree that this is a stupid thing to be arguing over. And you are right that I have had no self defense training and all that sort of stuff and I probably should read up on some of those sites to become more informed. But, you are seriously missing the bulleye on one thing. That was a lethal situation. Can people die from being choked out? Yes because the lack of blood to the brain. Crushing the windpipe can be fatal. Not to mention the dislodging of plaque in arteries that could possibly happen evenually clogging and killing you.
No lets look at this from another perspective...
If you parked in the Safeway parking lot and some guy (not a store rep) decided he didn't like the space you parked your car in. He told you to move it and you asked why and then said no. And all of a sudden he jumps at you and turns you and chokes you out to the point of complete submission in the form of unconciousness. Yes it is a completely deadly situation and you would be within your means of defending yourself in any way.
And one more thing. I would not have shot the person. Just showing your side arm would be more than enough to completely tip the balance of power tenfold in this situation.
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Xacto
Enlightened
Out of curiousity - what did the others around you say about the situation you got in? The people organising the camp surely did not like one of their customers being choke by another customer?
In regards to your question - I would think about getting an iTP SA-2 or any other 2AA light that is slim (and cheap in case it gets confiscated). It should protrude your hand yet look unsuspicious. I think one of the longer Fenixes should do too. If you really, really want to have an "edge" or, to be precise, a point, then go with a Minimaglite with an attached window breaker from Xcapecap . But I wouldn't be surprised if the authorities at school do not like the look.
My 0,02 Eurocents.
Cheers
Thorsten
P.S.: I've been bullied too at school, although never really in a harmfull, physical way. But I do know how it effects one inside and one thing I do know - if my son (13months) will ever be bullied and needs to fight as a final consequence - I will back him up in front of the school director. He must not go through what I went through.
In regards to your question - I would think about getting an iTP SA-2 or any other 2AA light that is slim (and cheap in case it gets confiscated). It should protrude your hand yet look unsuspicious. I think one of the longer Fenixes should do too. If you really, really want to have an "edge" or, to be precise, a point, then go with a Minimaglite with an attached window breaker from Xcapecap . But I wouldn't be surprised if the authorities at school do not like the look.
My 0,02 Eurocents.
Cheers
Thorsten
P.S.: I've been bullied too at school, although never really in a harmfull, physical way. But I do know how it effects one inside and one thing I do know - if my son (13months) will ever be bullied and needs to fight as a final consequence - I will back him up in front of the school director. He must not go through what I went through.
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alpg88
Flashlight Enthusiast
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that is enough to press charges. that could have caused permanent brain damage. o2 starvation is dangerous.
on topic. no light with sharp bezels will help you, if you pulled it on that bully on the bus, he would have taken it away from you and used it against you.
it wont help you, but it most likely will hurt you. just learn how to fight.
One thing I probably forgot to mention was I was bigger than this kid by about 5 inches and 30 or 40 pounds. I think I could overpower him in a fair fight even though he may have age and experience. He just happened to be the agressor and I did not have the time to react.
But I'm glad to see some people now backing me instead of ripping on me. And just for the record we almost had the handcuffs slammed on him. He got lucky I guess.
But anyways, I am looking just to upgrade me iTP A3 to something bigger and better. And with some videos I have watched like with Surefire, a light can be an excellent defense tool.
But I'm glad to see some people now backing me instead of ripping on me. And just for the record we almost had the handcuffs slammed on him. He got lucky I guess.
But anyways, I am looking just to upgrade me iTP A3 to something bigger and better. And with some videos I have watched like with Surefire, a light can be an excellent defense tool.
alpg88
Flashlight Enthusiast
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i don't agree to most of your post, but this part is the worst.
so you would move the bags,
next he'll tell you to get out of your seat, (and he will;, since he sees you obey), that it will be something else, than again,.........
what are you gonna do than?????
i know 1 thing, you'll never have any respect in my school if you do that,
i,ve been to school too, and if someone is bullied and crys and does everything he is told, i'll never help a guy like that, you know why, cuz ppl like that are wusses, and would never help you, they would run away scared.
otoh if a smaller guy is fighting a bully against all odds, knowing that he will loose, but still fights, i will step in and help, cuz that guy would step in to help others, he has balls.
that is how i was raised, but this day and age, ppl are discouraged to stand their ground, and take care of them selves.
alpg88
Flashlight Enthusiast
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maybe in the video it worked, but in real life.., but anyway, as it was said before 123 light are too short to have a good grip and still have something stick out to use as a weapon, you need at least 1AA light.
i had 1 AA light 30lm with that kind of bezel, to me it was too small to use in defence (not that i would, i got better tools) you need something of e2 size at least.
most of the fights end up on the floor, fast, only in the movies it looks good, in real life, not so,either you or your opponent gets knocked out, or you both end up wrestling.
