Dangerous explosion with 2 CR123A primary

[Customerservice@4sevens]

We are currently assisting CampingMaster in finding a good resolution to this.

-Trevor

 

[aimxplode]

CampingMaster or 4Sevens, please update us when the problem has been found/resolved.

 

[CampingMaster]

CampingMaster or 4Sevens, please update us when the problem has been found/resolved.

Yes for sure!

As soon as I will be free I will publish the personnal report that I asked my friend to do, I received it yesterday.

I will come back soon, busy for now.

Bye !

Ultimate CampingMaster

 

[CampingMaster]

~

ALL Multi-cell lights must be used with knowledge and the proper precautions .


Kinda like race cars ... 3 new tires + 1 bald tire = Something BAD's gonna happen !

( They ALL have to wear evenly and equally. )

~

Thank you, my friend had two primary batteries wrapped together (include with the flashlight) when the incident happened. Probably people not using their flashlight often and not changing their batteries on a regular basis should each three months unwrap the batteries and check them with a voltmeter to see if they are evenly discharging.

Ultimate CampingMaster

 

[CampingMaster]

Looking at the picture, it appears the left battery was alot hotter than the right. I can't tell the brand of the left battery, the right battery didn't burn off it's label.

These two batteries where 4Sevens primary include with the flashlight, they come wrapped together in a row. My friend did not at any time mixed batteries. The incident happened with 13 months old batteries - in other words -> the very same batteries where in the flashlight for 13 months for a flashlight that was used sparingly.

Ultimate CampingMaster

 

[CampingMaster]

Hello CampingMaster,

Years ago several tests were done showing the dangers of primary lithium cells. The basic problem was that lower quality cells often are not matched in capacity, and this can also happen if partially used cells are used with new cells. In order to generate the "rapid venting with flame" a few things need to be in place. You need heat, a cell that is being reversed charged, and enough time to get the chemical reaction going.

The basic safety aspects that came out of this testing were to use quality cells, to never mix partially used or different brands of cells with new cells in a multi cell light, to make sure the light is shut off and locked out, and to no worry about the last little bit of capacity in the cells. When the light starts to dim, replace the cells.

Following these procedures, the incidents of "exploding" flashlights has been greatly reduced. It is still not quite zero, but greatly reduced.

Tom

Thank you very much!

Ultimate CampingMaster

 

[CampingMaster]

Did Dave or somebody at 4Sevens make an official statement on this incident?

4Sevens asked me to send them all the remaining parts of the Quark 123² and batteries, what I did yesterday Friday.

From Montreal Canada to 4Sevens, LLC in USA the Postal Service told me it will take 4 weeks - unbelievable 4 weeks...

They told me it will take 2 weeks by airplaine...

I choose the cheapest way - 4 weeks for 6$CAD

Ultimate CampingMaster

[/IMG]

 

[CampingMaster]

Here is the report I asked to my friend to do for the benefices of all of us and 4Sevens :

(has been emailed to 4Sevens)

4 Sevens, Flashlight

First, I would like to thank you for your fine products.

I would like to share an incident that happened about four weeks ago.

I put on the 4 Sevens flashlight with the 2 original batteries.

I was holding in my hand the flashlight and about 2-3 minutes later, I hear a bang
like a shot gun and seconds after another bang while I was still holding the
flashlight. Then it started to get hot and I let it drop on the floor and smoke
came out of it. My wife and I were wondering what was happening.

Then the flashlight exploded and hit me on my foot and broke into piecies.

Then two fires broke out and burn our wood floor which we put out rapidly with a
small burn in the wood. The smell was so strong that it went to the neighbors
appartment.

We pick up the pieces and gave them to Pierre Nadon (He sold it to me).

Ultimate CampingMaster

 

[Max_Power]

In Santa Clara, you can take your dead batteries to the fire department, they collect them for free. I bet Berkeley FD does the same thing. Keeps nasty stuff like mercury out of the landfill.

 

[Black Rose]

From Montreal Canada to 4Sevens, LLC in USA the Postal Service told me it will take 4 weeks - unbelievable 4 weeks...

They told me it will take 2 weeks by airplaine...

I choose the cheapest way - 4 weeks for 6$CAD

The people at the post office mislead you.

I have sent li-ion cells to the US west coast by ground and they got there in the same amount of time as if I had chosen to send them by air mail.

Average time to any location in the US with ground or air packet is 12 to 14 days.

But considering what you were mailing, I'm surprised they even offered the airmail option.

 

[MorePower]

In Santa Clara, you can take your dead batteries to the fire department, they collect them for free. I bet Berkeley FD does the same thing. Keeps nasty stuff like mercury out of the landfill.

Not really, unless people are taking zinc-air cells to the FD. No other type of consumer cell sold in the US contains mercury other than zinc air cells, which are what hearing aids typically use.

Sorry for the off topic, but this kind of misinformation needs to stop spreading.

 

[hank]

and, no, Santa Clara's program isn't available anywhere else I've found. I contacted the 'Big Green Box' company that takes all types of batteries, and they will be rolling out a household-size recycle/return package in the next few months

 

[Helmut.G]

Does that mean you throw your used batteries into the wastebin in the US?

In germany every store that sells any kind of batteries or any product containing or using batteries is required to take back used batteries for recycling plus there are many public bottle banks that have a special hole for used batteries.

 

[andrewnewman]

Does that mean you throw your used batteries into the wastebin in the US?

In germany every store that sells any kind of batteries or any product containing or using batteries is required to take back used batteries for recycling plus there are many public bottle banks that have a special hole for used batteries.

Here in CT the Home Depot I frequent has a big bin and they encourage people to put ALL KINDS of rechargeable batteries in there. I've seen lots of NiCD drill packs and LiIon laptop batteries. They have a similar (separate) bin for compact fluorescent bulbs.

 

[hank]

It's a major problem, Helmut. Rules vary; here's a good collection:
http://www.ehso.com/csshome/battery_recycling_in_california.php

 

[4sevens]

Hi everyone - we are actively investigating this and will have forensics done on the remains when they arrive.
The only time we've observed this is if the lithium primaries were charged despite warnings on the label.
I am not saying that the customer did that I'm just saying that this is what we've found to be the cause in the past.
The primaries do not rupture while charge but while discharging after being charged.

Campmaster I'm glad nobody was hurt - we're going to do everything to make this right.
Do you know who filed this incident with the cpsc.gov and insisted that they remain anonymous?

-D

 

[CampingMaster]

Hi everyone - we are actively investigating this and will have forensics done on the remains when they arrive.

Do you know who filed this incident with the cpsc.gov and insisted that they remain anonymous?

-D

Thank you 4Sevens. I don't know who filed this incident with the cpsc.gov, probably a competitor in USA.

I live in Canada and did not contact any and will not contact any governement agency of any country about this very rare situation which I think might be very difficult or impossible to duplicate.

Me and my friend are very satisfied with your products and will continue to use them and will cooperate at any stage of your investigation to help you understand what happens.

Your very truly -> Ultimate CampingMaster

 

[TwitchALot]

I'm very interested in this thread and what's going on. I've had uneven battery drain in one of my double packed 4Sevens lights (2 x CR123A, batteries came wrapped together). My G5 went dim suddenly an unexpectedly given the relative lack of use. I shut the light down immediately and checked the batteries with a voltmeter. Not as good as a ZTS, but one batter was at 3.1 V or so at rest and the other 2.X, where X resulted in a substantial resting voltage difference. I imagine under high load the difference would be magnified.

In any event, I chucked the bad one and used the other in a single cell light. So yes, this CAN happen even with packaged 2 x CR123A batteries, but since I knew what was up from my extensive reading about batteries on this site, there were no safety issues - but you do have to recognize symptoms and act appropriately, and follow Silverfox's advice.

QC is really a big deal with these batteries - manufacturers may show good initial procedures and produce quality batteries, but over time, if they're not constantly hounded by QC and have that quality mindset, can slack or try to cut costs on their end after proving they can do a good job (they just no longer do it to the same standard they initially had). I'm not saying that's what happened here, but good QC is a constant cost - it doesn't stop after initial batch runs or procurement tests, but has to keep going to make sure suppliers are doing the very best job they can all the time.

 

[Larbo]

Not meaning to hijack anyones thread, bit I think this is relevant and may shed light on the 123x2 issue here. http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?272299-Lithium-Battery-Issues

This was not a bang and fire problem thats why I posted it there.

 

[Let It Bleed]

If a consumer files a product safety complaint, they have the right to choose whether to share their contact information (i.e. the complainant must disclose identity, but have the option to keep their identifiable information confidential).

Without getting into details, competitors cannot submit anonymous reports. Anonymous complaints aren't published. Complainant cannot be anonymous, but they do have right for this information not to be published or disclosed.