Discussion: Arc4/5 interface design
- Thread starter Gransee
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Crash
Enlightened
Peter,
My vote goes for numbers 1, 2, 4, 5 (I don't have the expertise to build one myself but I'd be willing to pay one of the less electronically challenged CPFers to build one for me), A big vote for number 9, and numbers 13, 15, and 16 would be great.
Another suggestion is to have the option to go to momentary full power from "off" even if none of the settable levels are set for full power. In other words, have a menu option to be able to go to full power without latching "on" instead of the last used level to "check out something" quickly in order to identify it.
My vote goes for numbers 1, 2, 4, 5 (I don't have the expertise to build one myself but I'd be willing to pay one of the less electronically challenged CPFers to build one for me), A big vote for number 9, and numbers 13, 15, and 16 would be great.
Another suggestion is to have the option to go to momentary full power from "off" even if none of the settable levels are set for full power. In other words, have a menu option to be able to go to full power without latching "on" instead of the last used level to "check out something" quickly in order to identify it.
Gransee
Flashlight Enthusiast
absolite and crash, I added your suggestions to my original post. Thanks!
Peter
Peter
Auto off-disableable (is that a word?)
Strobe-like the idea of 'coasting' by click and hold with fine adj by click, though how do you determine up or down adjustment? Maybe a double click to start adj up and a single clicking to go down?
Auto find-7 days may not work for some. Imagine loosing it in a Hotel room /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif No briliant suggestions for an alternative though. Having it go off every 4 hours for a half hour would eat batteries and possibly get some strange looks /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Simple toggle-setable maybe 3 or 4 functions. Great if you are going to lend it.
OT-One question that I haven't seen answered--Will the Arc 5 run on a single 123? At reduced power of course.
Strobe-like the idea of 'coasting' by click and hold with fine adj by click, though how do you determine up or down adjustment? Maybe a double click to start adj up and a single clicking to go down?
Auto find-7 days may not work for some. Imagine loosing it in a Hotel room /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif No briliant suggestions for an alternative though. Having it go off every 4 hours for a half hour would eat batteries and possibly get some strange looks /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Simple toggle-setable maybe 3 or 4 functions. Great if you are going to lend it.
OT-One question that I haven't seen answered--Will the Arc 5 run on a single 123? At reduced power of course.
I am waiting on my first ARC4.However,I have read the advanced instructions and used the sims.I like the light the way it is but would like to see a lower low level and maybe a second menu that would let you hold the button and the brightness would advance through the brightness settings.You would release the button when you got to the level that you want.
P.S
Maybe the low level is low enough.I wont know until I get mine /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
P.S
Maybe the low level is low enough.I wont know until I get mine /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
simbad
Enlightened
Lower level I think is fine, it is lower than a AAA, once you are in the dark after 15 min. maybe you want even a lower beam, the level 16 as dimmest is perfect IMO, I use it every night as a bedside light, if Jowie barks I get out and jump to the full brightness /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
1: Maybe. I kind of like the max and min being fixed at 1 and 16(or new lowest level) respectively. I have two configurable choices, so that gives me quick access to four different levels and I always know where min and max are.
If you add another configurable level (tertiary) accessible via four clicks once ON, that would give users 3 configurable levels (primary, secondary, tertiary) plus MIN and MAX for five quickly accessible levels.
2: Yes. Smoother is nicer.
3: Maybe.
4: Yes, the strobe function could be handy as a beacon and as a tool.
5: Maybe, not critical.
6: Maybe.
7-8: Maybe.
9: NO! At first I thought full power latch would be nice to have, but then the more I thought about it the more I realized it would not be all that useful. Full power sucks power fast! This is a general purpose EDC light, not a power or lumen or throw monster. If someone wants to use Level-1 all the time, they can set that as one of their programable levels. I think Level-4 (where I have my secondary level set to, see the sig line) is about the max that I generally want latched on. IMHO. If you do put this function in, I would suggest making the hold-boost-before-latching time greater than 2 seconds, like 10 seconds. I boost for 2-5 seconds pretty regularly, and having the light latch to Level-1 on me would be annoying.
10: Maybe.
11: Yes:
12: Maybe, but why? The guts are potted into the head and the head is already serialized. Is there a rash of stolen Arc4+ lights that have had their serial numbers defaced off of the bodies?
13: Yes, this would make being able to ID the version a lot easier than comparing features and trying to figure out which rev you have.
14: Maybe.
15: Maybe:
16: YES!!! Indoors Level-16 is too bright for a direct "sleeping-kid-check". I have to bounce Level-16 off the white ceiling or block the lens with my hand a lot. A dimmer minimum light level would be more convienent for a direct shine on the sleeping kids.
17: Maybe, but only if auto-off is a toggle choice (ON/Off-default=OFF) in the menu. Also suggest a slightly longer time out, like 15 or 30 minutes. I've used the light hands-free when working on something for more than 10 minutes several times. Being interrupted (probably right about when I got everything lined up that I was working on) to turn the light back on after 10 minutes would be annoying!
18: Maybe, but full power jump from off seems more useful if the transition is off_last/primary_1-2 seconds hold_then go full power on hold. Jumping to full after 1/2 second hold seems like it would go into full too often for me.
Peter, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif to the Arc4+ as an EDC light.
If you add another configurable level (tertiary) accessible via four clicks once ON, that would give users 3 configurable levels (primary, secondary, tertiary) plus MIN and MAX for five quickly accessible levels.
2: Yes. Smoother is nicer.
3: Maybe.
4: Yes, the strobe function could be handy as a beacon and as a tool.
5: Maybe, not critical.
6: Maybe.
7-8: Maybe.
9: NO! At first I thought full power latch would be nice to have, but then the more I thought about it the more I realized it would not be all that useful. Full power sucks power fast! This is a general purpose EDC light, not a power or lumen or throw monster. If someone wants to use Level-1 all the time, they can set that as one of their programable levels. I think Level-4 (where I have my secondary level set to, see the sig line) is about the max that I generally want latched on. IMHO. If you do put this function in, I would suggest making the hold-boost-before-latching time greater than 2 seconds, like 10 seconds. I boost for 2-5 seconds pretty regularly, and having the light latch to Level-1 on me would be annoying.
10: Maybe.
11: Yes:
12: Maybe, but why? The guts are potted into the head and the head is already serialized. Is there a rash of stolen Arc4+ lights that have had their serial numbers defaced off of the bodies?
13: Yes, this would make being able to ID the version a lot easier than comparing features and trying to figure out which rev you have.
14: Maybe.
15: Maybe:
16: YES!!! Indoors Level-16 is too bright for a direct "sleeping-kid-check". I have to bounce Level-16 off the white ceiling or block the lens with my hand a lot. A dimmer minimum light level would be more convienent for a direct shine on the sleeping kids.
17: Maybe, but only if auto-off is a toggle choice (ON/Off-default=OFF) in the menu. Also suggest a slightly longer time out, like 15 or 30 minutes. I've used the light hands-free when working on something for more than 10 minutes several times. Being interrupted (probably right about when I got everything lined up that I was working on) to turn the light back on after 10 minutes would be annoying!
18: Maybe, but full power jump from off seems more useful if the transition is off_last/primary_1-2 seconds hold_then go full power on hold. Jumping to full after 1/2 second hold seems like it would go into full too often for me.
Peter, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif to the Arc4+ as an EDC light.
pEEf
Newly Enlightened
I love these ideas! The strobe could easily also be a tachometer by adding a speed "readout" by flashing the hertz out when you hold the button down for 2 seconds.
As an embedded engineer, I realize that all these features add code space, so they all may not be implementable. It would help to code them in assembly rather than C if codespace gets tight. On small embedded devices, I always use direct assembly for this reason.
But I digress....
I love the features of my Arc4+, and I love more features even if I don't directly have a need for them. But the biggest hurdle is adding all this stuff with a one-button interface. If I was designing a light based on what I have learned about the Arc4+, and what I know about UI (User Interface) design, I would try to enhance the basic user control hardware. (right now this is only a rather poor single stage push-button) This way the multitude of features would be much more valuable and easier to use and implement.
I know it may be difficult, but it would make the light MUCH easier if maybe a rotary encoder could be added. Like say the head was not threaded and instead assembled with a bushing and an internal snap-ring such that it could rotate infinitely without unscrewing. Add a spring detent and some sort of encoder, either optical or electromechanical and now you have a "knob" that turns. (the lower half of the body)
I thought of this after watching several friends try to twist the head, mag-lite style when I handed it to them and said it has multiple brightness levels.
The knob could have 16 nice snappy detents in it for the brightness levels. (15 levels + one "zero" level for button lockout) In default mode, you click on, click off, or hold for momentary, just as it is now, then rotate the cap to choose the desired brightness. Beautiful, simple, intuitive. For more advanced operations to please the gadget freak (me), the 16 position encoder would be great for selecting flash rate for the Strobe (tach), selecting menu options, etc.
But the basic ability to just pick it up and use it by anyone would be assured. Just engrave a label above the knob to indicate it is rotatable and label it something like this "<- INTENSITY ->". I'm not a mechanical engineer, but I have sketched a drawing of how this could be made, similar in dimensions and assembly to the 4+.
The other, less useful option could be to add a multi-stage button to the design, much like many digital cameras use. A gentle click, and when pressed harder, a second click. Both would have to have good tactile feedback and not be "spongy" or quiet.
I recently tore my 4+ apart after plenty of button frustration and constructed a recessed button and improved the tactile feel. I am quite happy with it, and I can revert at any time to "factory" if it needs service, or I get tired of it. I will post the details later in a separate thread.
-Phil
As an embedded engineer, I realize that all these features add code space, so they all may not be implementable. It would help to code them in assembly rather than C if codespace gets tight. On small embedded devices, I always use direct assembly for this reason.
But I digress....
I love the features of my Arc4+, and I love more features even if I don't directly have a need for them. But the biggest hurdle is adding all this stuff with a one-button interface. If I was designing a light based on what I have learned about the Arc4+, and what I know about UI (User Interface) design, I would try to enhance the basic user control hardware. (right now this is only a rather poor single stage push-button) This way the multitude of features would be much more valuable and easier to use and implement.
I know it may be difficult, but it would make the light MUCH easier if maybe a rotary encoder could be added. Like say the head was not threaded and instead assembled with a bushing and an internal snap-ring such that it could rotate infinitely without unscrewing. Add a spring detent and some sort of encoder, either optical or electromechanical and now you have a "knob" that turns. (the lower half of the body)
I thought of this after watching several friends try to twist the head, mag-lite style when I handed it to them and said it has multiple brightness levels.
The knob could have 16 nice snappy detents in it for the brightness levels. (15 levels + one "zero" level for button lockout) In default mode, you click on, click off, or hold for momentary, just as it is now, then rotate the cap to choose the desired brightness. Beautiful, simple, intuitive. For more advanced operations to please the gadget freak (me), the 16 position encoder would be great for selecting flash rate for the Strobe (tach), selecting menu options, etc.
But the basic ability to just pick it up and use it by anyone would be assured. Just engrave a label above the knob to indicate it is rotatable and label it something like this "<- INTENSITY ->". I'm not a mechanical engineer, but I have sketched a drawing of how this could be made, similar in dimensions and assembly to the 4+.
The other, less useful option could be to add a multi-stage button to the design, much like many digital cameras use. A gentle click, and when pressed harder, a second click. Both would have to have good tactile feedback and not be "spongy" or quiet.
I recently tore my 4+ apart after plenty of button frustration and constructed a recessed button and improved the tactile feel. I am quite happy with it, and I can revert at any time to "factory" if it needs service, or I get tired of it. I will post the details later in a separate thread.
-Phil
DanMan4142
Newly Enlightened
- Joined
- May 18, 2004
- Messages
- 59
pEEf
I think that is a great idea about turning the bezel to change the brightness levels. I dont know how hard it would be to manufacture but that would make the ARC 5 a must have in my book.
I think that is a great idea about turning the bezel to change the brightness levels. I dont know how hard it would be to manufacture but that would make the ARC 5 a must have in my book.
BentHeadTX
Flashlight Enthusiast
I like the Surefire way of doing it, they use a 6 position collar that pulses the microprocessor with magnets. Just glance at the collar and rotate it to the brightness you want. In conjunction with the collar, have the "smart" programmable tailswitch. It's function with be on/off, special functions (strobe etc) and programming.
I played with cy's Arc4+ last week, very cool light but a slight pain to use. A stiff collar with ball bearings to move it in the detents would of been perfect. Someone mentioned having the head rotate for different brightness positions, sounds like a good idea to me. A single magnet could move across an inductive sensor for a true variable light output--from almost dark to full brightness.
I believe I would pay $250 for a 5W Luxeon that could easily give me the light I need (and want)
I played with cy's Arc4+ last week, very cool light but a slight pain to use. A stiff collar with ball bearings to move it in the detents would of been perfect. Someone mentioned having the head rotate for different brightness positions, sounds like a good idea to me. A single magnet could move across an inductive sensor for a true variable light output--from almost dark to full brightness.
I believe I would pay $250 for a 5W Luxeon that could easily give me the light I need (and want)
pEEf
Newly Enlightened
Yeah, it made me think that 16 levels is probably a bit much.... 8 levels (7 with a zero or lock) will probably do it if they are chosen carefully, but then again, it's only one more bit to increase to 16.
The problem is to come up with an encoder design that is absolute, so when the light is powered off, a rotation will still select a level prior to turning on. If you are in a low light level you don't want it coming on at full brightness and blinding you just because it was the last level selected. This usually means actual physical electrical contacts or optical. The optical method is more reliable, but would require 3 detectors and 1 LED to illuminate them which would use a small amount of power. It would only have to "check" the encoder position upon power up, and then at a frequency suitable for effective operation, maybe 100 milliseconds would be a fast enough response. Pulse the encoder LED on just long enough to take the reading, then shut off. 3 binary patterns could be machined around the inner part of the part of the body that rotates to make all 8 combinations. I think I would design in a mechanical stop at each end so you can "feel" the positions in the dark prior to switching on. Of course, as I mentioned, adding one more detector would give you 16 positions, so why not?! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Maybe to enter the "advanced" menu mode it could be something like moving the encoder to zero, then holding the button while rotating to position one, then the button could be released to select whatever menu item was desired. Rotating to different clicks would give you the ability to choose the features.
Maybe something like this, in any preferable order: (except for strobe which has to be in the middle for reasons described later)
1-SOS
2-Locator Flash
3-Arc Recovery System (ARS)
4-Strobe/Tachometer (has to be in the "middle")
5-Ready for service/Battery Log readout
6-Tactical mode one
7-Tactical Mode two
When the Strobe/tach is selected, the light will begin to flash, and rotation of the encoder to position 5 will slowly increase the flash rate, 6 will increase faster, and 7 the fastest. Returning to 4 will keep it at it's present rate, while 3,2 and 1 decreases the rate incrementally in the same manner with the three speeds. When the button is pressed momentarily, the light can cycle through the brightness levels of the flash. Holding the button will cause a "readout" in flash patterns of the RPM selected. A range of 1 to 9999 RPM could be shown in this manner, thus causing the Arc to also become a digital stroboscope. 1 rpm is 1 flash per minute, so this can get slow enough to also be used as a attention-getting beacon for maximum battery life. (much longer than the SOS mode) Returning the encoder to position zero will exit the strobe mode.
All this thinking is exciting! It's making me want to prototype one, or at least do the coding for it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
-Phil
The problem is to come up with an encoder design that is absolute, so when the light is powered off, a rotation will still select a level prior to turning on. If you are in a low light level you don't want it coming on at full brightness and blinding you just because it was the last level selected. This usually means actual physical electrical contacts or optical. The optical method is more reliable, but would require 3 detectors and 1 LED to illuminate them which would use a small amount of power. It would only have to "check" the encoder position upon power up, and then at a frequency suitable for effective operation, maybe 100 milliseconds would be a fast enough response. Pulse the encoder LED on just long enough to take the reading, then shut off. 3 binary patterns could be machined around the inner part of the part of the body that rotates to make all 8 combinations. I think I would design in a mechanical stop at each end so you can "feel" the positions in the dark prior to switching on. Of course, as I mentioned, adding one more detector would give you 16 positions, so why not?! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Maybe to enter the "advanced" menu mode it could be something like moving the encoder to zero, then holding the button while rotating to position one, then the button could be released to select whatever menu item was desired. Rotating to different clicks would give you the ability to choose the features.
Maybe something like this, in any preferable order: (except for strobe which has to be in the middle for reasons described later)
1-SOS
2-Locator Flash
3-Arc Recovery System (ARS)
4-Strobe/Tachometer (has to be in the "middle")
5-Ready for service/Battery Log readout
6-Tactical mode one
7-Tactical Mode two
When the Strobe/tach is selected, the light will begin to flash, and rotation of the encoder to position 5 will slowly increase the flash rate, 6 will increase faster, and 7 the fastest. Returning to 4 will keep it at it's present rate, while 3,2 and 1 decreases the rate incrementally in the same manner with the three speeds. When the button is pressed momentarily, the light can cycle through the brightness levels of the flash. Holding the button will cause a "readout" in flash patterns of the RPM selected. A range of 1 to 9999 RPM could be shown in this manner, thus causing the Arc to also become a digital stroboscope. 1 rpm is 1 flash per minute, so this can get slow enough to also be used as a attention-getting beacon for maximum battery life. (much longer than the SOS mode) Returning the encoder to position zero will exit the strobe mode.
All this thinking is exciting! It's making me want to prototype one, or at least do the coding for it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
-Phil
Commander
Enlightened
Peter any news?
Any time frame?
Regards
Thomas
Any time frame?
Regards
Thomas
Gransee
Flashlight Enthusiast
Commander, we are still on schedule with my most recent estimate.
Minor Arc4 software update: August
Arc5 shipping: Q1 2005
Again, these are updates and subject to change as reality comes into focus. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
--
This thread is about future software features. Keep the suggestions coming!
Peter
Minor Arc4 software update: August
Arc5 shipping: Q1 2005
Again, these are updates and subject to change as reality comes into focus. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
--
This thread is about future software features. Keep the suggestions coming!
Peter
(1) Perhaps there could be an option where the temperature cut-off can be adjusted. That is, when the Arc4 gets too hot, it cuts back power--but the "too hot" temperature is hard-wired. If this were adjustable, then, for example, we could determine a "comfort level" of hotness and set the Arc4 to not rise above that level.
(2) How about a super-overdrive mode, where the Luxeon is over-driven for all it's worth for maybe about 5 seconds? Just enough for "tactical" maneuvers or for "wowing" the audience.
(3) There might be a new toggle mode. For example, now you can toggle between the primary level and the secondary level with a double click. But what if you were able to toggle between, say, the primary level and the strobe function?
(2) How about a super-overdrive mode, where the Luxeon is over-driven for all it's worth for maybe about 5 seconds? Just enough for "tactical" maneuvers or for "wowing" the audience.
(3) There might be a new toggle mode. For example, now you can toggle between the primary level and the secondary level with a double click. But what if you were able to toggle between, say, the primary level and the strobe function?
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