DIY for Dummies?

tincanblower

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
6
Hi there,
Please accept my apologies if I've put this in the wrong forum. I'm always getting told off for posting in the wrong place.

I have a request for something which may already exist, but I just haven't found it yet.

There's such an amazing array of knowledge on the site from modders/builders, and I wondered whether someone would be willing to put together a kind of 'Modding for Dummies' page?
Looking through DealExtreme (love it or hate it), they sell the 'drop ins', 'stars', 'current regulated LED drivers', 'Cree circuit boards', and loads of other bits and pieces.

I'm just totally overwhelmed by how many parts are available, and what you'd need to use to, for example, mod a simple maglite.
I know the knowledge is out there, but for someone like me who has a reasonable understanding of electronics (Ohm's law etc.) but no idea of how to build a torch/flashlight, its difficult to know where to start!

Sorry, again, if I've posted this in the wrong place. I look forward to your replies!
73,

Matt
 
Matt,

Being new I'd find this to be very helpful as well, however I think as I move thread to thread I realize I'm going to be doing it the hard way.
There is a very good thread on this forum on batteries though that I'm sure someone will link up, it's very informative.
And hey, whats with signing "73"? :)

de VE7II
 
It might just be me looking in the wrong places... I'm incredibly bad with forums!
Oh, and the 73 is from M0PTO!
 
You are probably best to start in the
Homemade and Modified Flashlights Discussion subforum.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=17
There is a sticky on top
Homemade and Modified lights - Threads of Interest
Inside you will find a general discussion thread
Introduction to modifying flashlights ...
And a thread on how to mad a 3D Maglite to a SSC-P7 LED Mag step by step.
How To Mod a Maglite P7 - 38 PICS

-----

There are so many different ways to mod or build a torch it would be difficult to list them all in one page.
-----
The simplest mod is to replace the bulb.
Many people want to replace the incandescent PR bulb with an LED. Due to heat restrictions the LED PR bulbs are not brighter than the original but they don't burn out and the batteries last longer. Dorcy, Terralux, Nite-ize make such bulbs.
There are a trio of big drop-ins that fit into the head of a Maglite - The Fusion36 and the Terralux TLE-300M-EX and the Malkoff Maglite series. Much brighter than the simple bulb replacements.
-
Others want to go brighter. They replace the stock bulb in a Maglite with a Xenon bulb. To get more light they replace 2D batteries with a 6AA to 2D adapter and a 6D bulb into a 2D Maglite. Now they have a 2D Maglite that is as bright as a 6D Maglite. The Pelican Big D bulbs are even brighter but they run so hot they melt the plastic reflector and lens of a Maglite. So metal reflectors and glass lenses are needed. This is called ROP (Roar of the Pelican). There are similar mods for the 3D Maglite.
-----
Surefire made a light called the P60 in which all the parts screw together instead of glued together. Many manufacturers and modders make parts (or whole torches) that fit the P60 and can lego with each other.
The bodies are called hosts.
* P60 Flashlight List {host}
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=186661
The light assemblies (driver/LED/reflector or incan bulb/bulb holder/reflector) are called drop-ins.
P60 sized led drop-ins (part 3)
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=217252
Surefire's P60 uses 2*CR123A batteries but some not all of the 3rd party bodies can take 18650 Li-ion in addition to 2*CR123A
-----
After that soldering skills are a must.
Some people replace the drivers, some people replace the LED, some people replace the entire insides, some even modify the bodies of the torches. Some build everything from scratch.
 
Thanks for your kind reply. I guess I was looking for a really basic guide of 'what does what'...
For example, if I had just a black project box, and I wanted to build a torch from scratch - where would I start?

For example, if I was to find an emitter I liked from the list here: http://www.dealextreme.com/forums/Forums.dx/Forum.-209~threadid.530221
for example, the SSC P7 D-bin (800-900 lm @ 2.8A)
What does the 'bin' mean? And if I bought the emitter, would I still need to buy a regulator like this?
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.20330

People like me must get on your nerves! I'd just like to know some more about the basics, to fully understand what's happening in some of the mods.

As you'll see, I've been a member for a couple of years, and quite an active 'reader', but I've never really understood the very basics - so the rest has all been pretty confusing!
Thanks, and sorry!

Matt
 
Binning is how manufacturers describe different performance characteristics of their LEDs, such as tint and luminous efficacy.
Unless you wanted to direct drive the LED from your batteries, in which case it will dim as the batteries die (you will still need a current limiting resistor in this case); you will need a driver circuit, similar to the one you posted in your link. Basically, what a driver circuit does is supply a constant voltage and current to the LED, so as the batteries drain, the light output stays relatively constant. With a high output LED, you will need good heatsinking in order to keep the LED cool, because LEDs lose efficiency as they heat up.

LEDninja posted some good links to using the SSC P7 in a maglite mod, which is a great place to start.

If you wanted to build a light from scratch, you'd need to make some choices first: what batteries you wanted to use, what emitter(s), what drive current (how bright), what body (home made, or modified host). From there you could begin your design.

Hopefully this helps you out Matt!
 
My suggestion is to start reading posts in the "Home made & Modified" forum. You'll get all your questions answered, and get answers for questions you haven't even thought of yet.

There are LOTS of threads for M@G modding w/ pictures and instructions. And plenty of "simple but effective" mods for off-the-shelf lights. And the HM&M marketplace has frequent listings for parts, hosts and useful bits.
 
First maybe a bit of history.

increasing power to the LED
Through the late '90s the only available LEDs were 5 mm types ~3 lumens each. Then in 2001 Lumileds made the 1 watt LuxI, 30 (later 42) lumens at 350 mA. Nuwai made a torch using a 3V CR123A battery, a LuxI LED and a circuit that feeds 350 mA to the LED called the Quantum (Q1). Then Lumileds came out with the LuxIII 75 lumens at 700 mA. Nuwai replaced the LuxI with the luxIII and called it the QIII. Unfortunately the circuit was still feeding out 350 mA and the QIII is not brighter than the Q1. CPF members discovered with a 3.6V RCR123A they can push 700 mA into the LED and increase brightness to 75 lumens.

Improving the LED
When Cree came up with the XR-E at double the brightness at the same power input many CPF members tried to upgrade their torches. But the Cree does not work with reflectors designed for the Luxeons. OOPS. SSC had been making Luxeon clones under licence for the local market. They put a Cree die inside a Luxeon style case and called it an SSC-P4. Now we can do a direct swap.

Heat management
From the following EDC-P7 review.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=213131
After 10 minutes, the body became uncomfortably hot (keep in mind that I am in foodservice, and have been know to take pans out of the oven onto the stovetop with bare hands). After 20 minutes, the body temp was so high, that I turned it off for a few minutes because I feared for the Li-ion's safety. I let it could cool down, because of the high temps to the batts (sadly, I forget to take home the IR thermometer from work, so not sure of temp). Total run time was 45 minutes when I noticed a significant decrease in brightness, at which time I stopped the test.
Edit: for the above temps, I left it on a table top w/o touching it, to accumulate max heat. I re-did the test, but this time holding it in my hand the whole time. From 5 to 20 minutes, there was so much heat that I had to switch hands, but it never became so hot that I had to give up turn off the torch. Keep in mind, though, that I have asbestos hands. You may have to switch hands more often or turn it off, if the heat gets too high. After 25 minutes, the heat generated was not a problem.
I had to switch flashlights after using my EDC-P7 for 5 minutes. That is why most 1*18650 SSC-P7 runs at 2 amps (they all claim 2.8A so not to lose face).

-----

Now let us look at design parameters.

Choosing the LED
The LEDs in the link in the OP falls into 3 groups.
Cree XR-E, XP-E, SSC-P4, Luxeon Rebel.
These are small die LEDs and can be focussed very tightly for maximum throw/brightest hotspot. Max current 1-1.4A. Max lumens 250 LED, ~200 OTF.
Cree MC-E, SSC-P7.
4 dies per LED makes a bigger LED area and bigger hotspot. Unfortunately the reflector has to be deliberately defocussed to hide the gaps between the dies making for some floody lights. 700 LED, 500 OTF lumens max.
Cree XP-G, XL-M, Luminius SST-50, SST-90.
The bigger dies make for a bigger hotspot and more light.
XP-G - 350 LED, 275 OTF lumens max
XL-M - 160 LED lumans @350 mA, 750 LED lumens @2A. Production units not yet available.
SST-90 - 2250 LED lumens at 9A.
In General
The 1st group will give you the tightest hotspot, the others give bigger hotspots or are out and out floods.
Cree XR-E, XP-E, SSC-P4, XP-G can be driven comfortably at 1A though have been driven up to 1.4A.
Cree MC-E, SSC-P7 can handle 2.8A.
Luminius SST-50 can handle 5A.
Luminius SST-90 can handle 9A. An electric frypan or kettle or toaster runs at 12A. Look at how thick the wire is. You can go down one wire size but that is still hard to manage.

Choosing the battery type and driver.
LEDs max out at between 3.2V to 4V (Vf).
3*NiMH gives 4.05-3.6V. A single Li-ion gives 4.2-3.6V. So it is possible to direct drive an LED without a driver. Both the EDC-P7 and the P7 Mag mod are DD with no driver. (XR-E, SSC-P4, SSC-P7)
Most of the newer LEDs have lower Vf so it may be wiser to use a dropping resister or driver. (XP-E, XP-G, MC-E, SST-50, SST-90)
-
Drivers come in 4 Types - boost, buck, boost-buck and PWM.
Boost drivers take a lower voltage and boost it to a useful voltage for the LED. 1.5V 1AA or 3V 2AA/1 CR123A primary.
Buck drivers take a higher voltage and lower it to that is required by the LED. Multiple lithium batteries. Most buck drivers add an additional volt to the Vf as its input requirements.
Boost-buck or buck-boost can take a wider input voltage range and either boost or buck as required.
PWM (pulse width modulation) does not change the voltage. It controls brightness by doing
_|¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯|_ or _|¯|_|¯|_|¯|_
It controls brightness by changing the width of the pulse. Often it is used in combination with a dropping resistor, boost or buck driver.

Choosing the Flashlight Body.
Your choice of batteries determines the body type.
Using NiMH DD means 3D Mag or 3C cells in a 2D Mag body. You can do 3C if you can still find a C size heatsink. There have been a few 3AA in a 1D body and 4D with buck driver. Note the Mag mods so far are designed for the incandescent body. The new Rebel MagLEDs are different inside and mod procedures and parts may not work or have to be changed first.
P60 style lights preferably one that is bored out for 18650. You only have to modify the light engine/drop-in. And if you mess up you can always buy another drop in.
Other 18650 lights. The light engine and head may be glued down. By the time you take it apart you may have damaged some bits you need.

Heat management
The LuxIII is a 3 watt LED. The replacement SSC-P4 is a 3 watt LED. So any flashlight that can handle a LuxIII can also handle an SSC-P4.
The Cree XR-E, XP-E, SSC-P4 is a 3 watt LED. The SSC-P7, Cree MC-E is a 10 watt LED. (The SST-90 is a 35 watt LED) So you need to figure out how to get rid of 3X the heat.
In the 2nd photo of the How To Mod a Maglite P7 - 38 PICS you can see the size of the heatsink for a P7 magmod.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=238641
In the P60 drop-in style bodies CPFers have been stuffing aluminum foil in the gap between the drop-in and body to increase heat flow. Or fill the space with arctic silver. Here is what Bigchelis did to a DeCree-XPG.
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showpost.php?p=2453829&postcount=85

I will make comments for the P7 and driver mentioned in post #6 in a separate post.
 
Last edited:
For example, if I was to find an emitter I liked from the list here: http://www.dealextreme.com/forums/Forums.dx/Forum.-209~threadid.530221
for example, the SSC P7 D-bin (800-900 lm @ 2.8A)
What does the 'bin' mean? And if I bought the emitter, would I still need to buy a regulator like this?
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.20330
P7 binning.
The P7 is usually binned C (or D) - SXO (or SWO or other) - I (or J)
Brightness: C is 700-800 lumens at 2.8A; D is 800-900 lumens at 2.8A
Tint: SXO is 'pure white'; SWO is more of a creamy white; see chart below for other tints
Vf - voltage across the LED that will produce the recommended maximum current. For the P7 it is 2.8A: I is 3.25-3.5V; J is 3.5-3.75V.
SSCP4PureWhite.jpg

The D bin does not guarantee 900 lumens. It does guarantee you get 800+ lumens and not 700 lumens.
SXO is good for indoors and downtown but too blue for the country where the colours are brown for tree trunks and mud and green for leaves and grass. SWO is less harsh and SVN which was sold by a couple of dealers in CPFMP is probably better for vegetation.
I is easier to drive but may let too much current through when direct driven and fry the LED.

-----

Because 3*NiMH or 1*18650 is just the right voltage to direct drive the P7 most people just do that or use a small dropping resistor. Output will drop as the battery voltage drops but not significantly to the eye. Purists prefer a regulated constant output and more runtime. Buck regulators typically need 1 more volt than the LED alone so 4D or 2*18650 is required.

-----

I mentioned before that the P7 tends to be floody. For throw an XR-E is better.
Shiningbeam L-mini left XR-E at 1A. MTE P7 right P7 at 2.1A.
P7Lminibeamshot.jpg


Shiningbeam L-mini bottom. MTE P7 top. The L-mini can out throw the P7 despite a small head and tiny reflector.
P7Lmini.jpg


-

All is not lost. If the reflector is big enough the P7 is not too bad.
Mag P7 left 52 mm reflector. MTE P7 right 34 mm reflector.
P7MagvsMTE2.jpg


2C Mag in the back. MTE P7 3rd from left. EDC P7 the shiny thing to the right of the MTE (the one that runs too hot). You can see how much bigger the Mag head (and reflector) is for better throw and how much bigger a Mag body is for heat dissipation (that is a 2C, you will need a 3D).
EDCP7size.jpg
 
Last edited:
As a general rule any of the drop in modules that have 50mm-52mm reflectors will fit with some mods.
These include the P7, MCE and 3 Cree R and 5 Cree R2 modules.
 
Those are some old school lights :-D. I mean come on MTE P7? lol..
The MTE was from almost 3 years ago when the P7 lights 1st came out.
I don't have the soldering skills, but among the CPF members that do the 1st thing they did was short out the trio of dropping resistors so their MTE P7 will run at 2.8A instead of the 2.1A of mine. Should be 33% brighter.

The L-mini at 1A can beat the MTE P7 at 2.1A in throw. Should still hold its own against a 2.8A MTE-P7 at almost 1/3 the power.

The MTE P7 at 2.8A will have a brighter beam but the beam shape of the Mag is still batter.
 
Top