do law enforcement agencies / US military ever use neutral white flashlights?.

[Lou Minescence]

Agencies have used neutral white incandescent flashlights for years. Usually incandescents produce a neutral white light or close to it.
Then comes along your average cool white LED flashlight with double the lumens and runtime over incandescent.
It's probably by default what the tint of the light is for police and soldiers.

 

[idleprocess]

Incandescents have high CRI because 100 CRI is essentially defined as "emission spectrum of tungsten heated to near-melting", ie the emission spectrum of an incandescent filament. While CRI is a decent measurement of color rendering, it's also not perfect.

Agencies have used neutral white incandescent flashlights for years. Usually incandescents produce a neutral white light or close to it.

From what I've seen, the typical incandescent flashlight tint is appreciably warmer in tint than a household mains-powered incandescent light bulb. Only the upper-end high-performance halogens seem to escape this with a color temperature that seems closer to 3000K.

 

[Etsu]

From what I've seen, the typical incandescent flashlight tint is appreciably warmer in tint than a household mains-powered incandescent light bulb. Only the upper-end high-performance halogens seem to escape this with a color temperature that seems closer to 3000K.

I measure my 4-D Maglite at a color temperature of 3400K, on slightly old batteries. It's probably higher on fresh batteries. That's higher than most of the incandescent household bulbs we use in the house. The 40 watt bulbs are closer to 2500K.

 

[TEEJ]

Most of the incan flashlights were producing a dim yellow donut of light....hardley white or even neutral.

 

[Lou Minescence]

Most of the incan flashlights were producing a dim yellow donut of light....hardley white or even neutral.

A lot of LEOs talk about the KISS principle about flashlights. One quick access to turn on the light. In the old days with incans, you never knew if the light would even come on. Then it wasn't very bright and the donught hole in the middle of the beam was dark. Battery life was short. Tint of the beam was in last place for consideration.

 

[Frank W]

Jus to reiterate an important point, CRI and Colour Temperature need both be taken together. We used to do colour critical work under 6500K and 5000K 98CRI fluorescent lightbooths, obviously the print looked different under each of them even though both were 98CRI. For critical colour though. Otherwise the eyes just adapted. The difference between say 3600K and 6500K when both are 98CRI is much bigger though, the low temp source will be missing most blues and vice versa. I still have lots of these high CRI fluorescent tubes in my work environment, nothing beats a daylight equivalent for keeping you up and sharp when on a deadline. Tis just the way human circadian rythm works. Obviously I wont comment on the LE aspect of colour temp and CRI (tis not my field) although IMHO a warmer daylight (say 5000K) beam will be somewhat easier to shine through any fine mist than a cool white, even both at same CRI. What do you say? That's why I prefer my EagTac in NW and even looking forward to a Nichia dropin if they make one. And would prefer a high CRI around5000K for my next EDC as well

 

[Mr. Tone]

Jus to reiterate an important point, CRI and Colour Temperature need both be taken together. We used to do colour critical work under 6500K and 5000K 98CRI fluorescent lightbooths, obviously the print looked different under each of them even though both were 98CRI. For critical colour though. Otherwise the eyes just adapted. The difference between say 3600K and 6500K when both are 98CRI is much bigger though, the low temp source will be missing most blues and vice versa. I still have lots of these high CRI fluorescent tubes in my work environment, nothing beats a daylight equivalent for keeping you up and sharp when on a deadline. Tis just the way human circadian rythm works. Obviously I wont comment on the LE aspect of colour temp and CRI (tis not my field) although IMHO a warmer daylight (say 5000K) beam will be somewhat easier to shine through any fine mist than a cool white, even both at same CRI. What do you say? That's why I prefer my EagTac in NW and even looking forward to a Nichia dropin when available here. And would prefer a high CRI around5000K for my next EDC as well

The man that cuts my hair has hi cri fluorescent lamps in the room he cuts hair. He also does a lot of hair cuts and treatments for women and needs very good lighting with color rendering that closely matches what they will see when they go outside. He let me see the literature for the bulbs and they were a cri of 98, I think, and a CCT of somewhere between 5000-6000 IIRC. It does seem like daylight with no clouds in his room. It is impressive. So these are considered cool white and yet you can see reds, tans, browns, etc. very well.

This is my complaint about cool white LED flashlights. Even though they may have a CCT similar to noon on a clear day they do not render colors the same and really miss the reds, browns, greens, etc. So as someone stated, CCT and CRI must be taken together. Nichia seems to be the only LED manufacturer that is able to produce a cooler CCT LED with a hi CRI. I have several lights with these Nichia 219 hi CRI emitters that have a range of 4500-5000K CCT. They do seem much like natural light and when I compare it to sunlight it is nice to see that the colors seem to be very similar, including white.

Here is a short explanation of CRI in layman's terms that I found. http://www.topbulb.com/color-rendering-index/

 

[TEEJ]

LED's need phosphors to emit the rest of the spectrum, and, don't tend to emit it in a homogeneous fashion. Even halogen and incans, etc, may lit up a woman's hair/materials differently than the noon day sun, or dawn light, or dusk light tends to.

This is one reason a woman's make up mirrors, lighting for formal wear, etc, may use lighting that simulated the conditions that are expected to be present when wearing it.

And, again, warmer is NOT high CRI per se...so to keep using the terms as though they are interchangeable misleads the newbs wrestling with the issue.


A warm light is describing the COLOR/Tint of the LIGHT. Period.

Many high CRI lights are warm...but that doesn't mean warm lights have high CRI.


Its like many Ferraris are Red. Ferraris are fast. Being fast doesn't mean its a Ferrari. Being Red doesn't mean its fast.


We might PREFER the look of a warmer light...but its a preference, and, really, that's all. Again, using a yellow light (Essentially what a warm light is, and, the rest is merely HOW yellow it is...), makes some colors pop, and, makes others harder to resolve.

It DOESN'T show all colors better.


In a LEO/Military setting, the topic here, the loss in illumination is not worth the yellow...and, its not even on the table one way or the other, as tint issues are more of a connoisseurs' dilemma than a tactical users' concern.


Its about as relevant as a GQ article titled "Zombie Apocalypse! Which cufflinks?"

 

[Dimt]

The average Soldier is still carrying an incandescent mini-Maglite, if anything. </frustrated rant>

Is this true? Are we sending our guys out there risking their lives with a incandescent mini-Maglite?

 

[TEEJ]

Is this true? Are we sending our guys out there risking their lives with a incandescent mini-Maglite?

Again, you get lot of your own kit, they don't supply EVERYTHING. So, some groups are issues some stuff, and others are issued other stuff. (And, no, AFAIK, they don't issue incan mini-mags)




For example, night vision stuff/FLIR, etc, is a lot more useful in a combat scenario than a flashlight...but its harder to equip a large number with that expensive stuff.

After that, its up to the unit and its missions as to what they use.

 

[neutralwhite]

this is what I mean, all I see from surefire and elzetta for tactical is cool white tint, not neutral.
i thought there was something in having cool white when it comes to the enemy as such with blinding white light rather than proper object recognition..

Is this true? Are we sending our guys out there risking their lives with a incandescent mini-Maglite?

 

[TEEJ]

this is what I mean, all I see from surefire and elzetta for tactical is cool white tint, not neutral.
i thought there was something in having cool white when it comes to the enemy as such.

Its not the tint per se, its the maximizing of the lux on the targets.

Surefire, etc, are about getting lux on target....and cooler tints do that better...as it takes less energy (Cell drain) to put X lumens of cool out the front than of warm.

The warmer the tint, the fewer lumens, and, the less lux on the targets.

The human eye essentially sees greens best, and, the lumen scale is weighted accordingly. Lights that make less green for example will tend to have lower lumen ratings.

 

[bcrewcaptain]

I can certainly say that on the fire department side, we prefer to go with the yellower tints. The trend is to go with the standard off the shelf, rechargeable, cool white LED lights. They provide a decent runtime, fairly quick recharge, and a lot of light. The drawback is, the glare in smoky conditions is horrible, and you lose some depth perception, and if you're on a medical call, it sucks to do a report by the glow of the light 8" off the white paper you're writing on. It's all a trade off, but I assume that for at least department/gov't issue, they are going with what they get in bulk, the cheapest, at least that is the way it is locally.

 

[Frank W]

The human eye essentially sees greens best, and, the lumen scale is weighted accordingly. Lights that make less green for example will tend to have lower lumen ratings.

Would that also depend on eye adaptation?

In scotoptic vision (really low light, rods are most sensitive to bluish green (peak at ~500nm, and much less to red - is that why red light is said to "not kill your night vision adaptation"? Because the eye sees much less red at same light levels - a really low full spectrum moonlight mode would probably be just as effective in scotoptic vision and might offer the benefit of better shades differentiation).

Mesopic vision (at slightly higher light levels, both cones and rods are used) is a different beast - it depends a lot on the light level and corresponding ratio of rods/cones how you are sensitive to the spectrum. No idea about it.

Photopic (cones) is most sensitive to green, because the three types of cones sensitivity overlaps at around 555nm.

But with a high output flashlight such as discussed, photopic vision is probably the most common scenario, and a general "green" as to what eye is most sensitive to is pretty much valid anyway.

I can certainly say that on the fire department side, we prefer to go with the yellower tints. The trend is to go with the standard off the shelf, rechargeable, cool white LED lights. The drawback is, the glare in smoky conditions is horrible,

That's what I was interested in, thanks. How much difference a cool white (with corresponding more energy in easily scattering blue wavelengths under any smoke/haze conditions) would make over a neutral white or warmer tint in any sort of atmospheric haze. For outdoors where I mostly use the lights in exactly such conditions (slight haze in evenings to overall foggy or rainy), a neutral to warm white is something I would prefer. And I guess a LEO would use such light in haze conditions as well - just because that's what you get in most cities anywhere in the world, especially in the autumn or winter. Would that make a difference?

 

[TMedina]

Is this true? Are we sending our guys out there risking their lives with a incandescent mini-Maglite?

When you first enlist, you get an initial issue: boots, uniforms, and so on. No light, no gear (TA-50). When you report to your base, you *may* be issued additional gear - when I got to Bragg in 2006, we were marched through equipment issue. Camelbaks, body armor, helmet, and so on. No flashlight.

When you report to your specific company, they might issue you a light. When my unit went to Iraq in 2006, troops were buying their own lights - usually the cheapest thing on the shelf. My chain of command "highly recommended" you buy a light because "it was a good idea to have one." When I left in 2009, at least two guys were still carrying x2 aa incandescent mini-Mags on their belts.

My ranting aside, units are different - some units, Infantry, for example, might issue Surefire weaponlights. And possibly flashlights. Each company can vary based on their gear issue. But by and large, if you're not going to issue gear and tell troops to buy their own, they're going to pick the cheapest thing on the shelf because it's money coming out of their pocket.

 

[Brasso]

Lights, knives, gloves, etc. Pretty much left up to the individual soldier. Many police depts issue a light. Most commonly now they issue a Streamlight. Scorpions are very common. But most police can also carry their own lights too. I'm issued a Streamlight that I leave charging in the car and carry a Surefire G2X Tactical on my person. 320 lumen model. I switched to this one because of the more neutral tint.

 

[petersmith6]

from my line of work i prefure the 6000 kelvin range as colour is key to me. while a warm white will give a bit more throw i cant say ive realy noticed the diference in the real world. the other thing to take into account is that your flash light may have a 400..500 or 800 meter range..a humans unaided eye may not. we tried an experiment a few years ago with torches and search lights (55 watt) at diferent ranges and found many couldnt see the four people standing up at 500 meters even though the beam could quite esaly supass this range. how ever a small near uv light made them show up.

 

[marc123]

Tint becomes important for examining scenes and blood etc. much easier to do with more natural tint and easier on the eye. It is also easier to work out what you are looking at too, in depth perception and identification of objects. I would say tint is more important than overall output for me anyway.