Does Duracell no longer make their own CR123A's?

js

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I've heard from one source that supposedly Duracell stopped making their own CR123A (or rather DL123A) Li-MN-O2 cells as of 2005. The last time I bought Duracell Ultra 123's I got them from www.cheapbatteries.com. According to them, the ones they have expire 2012 or 2013, which would mean they were still made by Duracell even if the above is true.

And if this is true, what does it mean?

Can anyone shed some more light on this? Links?
 
Found an article, but I don't know if this really answers your question, but here's an excerpt:

ATP.NIST said:
U.S. Manufacturing of Li-ion Batteries
There are many other examples of work by U.S. researchers that directly affected advanced battery systems. However, the United States has no large volume manufacturers, with only a few firms producing small volumes for specialty and military applications. U.S. companies, although global leaders in primary battery production and technology, were unable to take advantage of this early technological success. Their Southeast Asian counterparts have captured a dominant position in Li-ion battery manufacturing. Huge investments have been made in Japan, Taiwan, Korea, China, and other countries in Southeast Asia by both companies and government friendly policies for investment in competitive efforts to capture glob-al market share for rechargeable batteries for telecommunications, wireless, and computer products.

The two major U.S. battery manufacturers, Duracell and Eveready (now Energizer Holdings), began R&D efforts in Li-ion technologies around 1992, with the intent of ultimately manufacturing Li-ion batteries.

According to several senior staff interviewees, Duracell and Energizer both initiated programs for production of Li-ion batteries. In 1997, Energizer built a manufacturing facility in Gainesville, Florida outfitted with state-of-the-art equipment to produce Li-ion batteries, with production slated to start in 1999-2000. They licensed a Goodenough patent from Sony and built on their own advantaged IP positions in several areas. They had several years of experience with manufacturing Nickel Cadmium (Ni-Cd) and Ni-MH cells in Gainesville for several cellular phone and notebook computer companies. They prepared to establish a sales and marketing group in Japan to have access to the market, knowing it would take 5 years to be accepted. When the Gainesville Li-ion plant was in the "prove-in" stage, nearly ready for production, the world market price for Li-ion cells abruptly declined. The company reassessed the profitability of their investment and found it was marginal at the low cell prices. They could buy cells from Japan at a lower price than their manufacturing costs. The decision to exit Li-ion manufacture followed swiftly. The news of the low return to manufacture of Li-ion cells spread to Duracell, and they stopped their project. (Energizer sold its Gainesville facility to Moltech Corporation in 1999 after it sat idle for two years. In 2002, Moltech sold the plant to U.S. Lithium Energetics, which is seeking capital to enter production.)
 
js, i had found some info in this thread about Panasonic making most/all U.S. cr123's:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=174318

i was told by an online battery dealer that the U.S. Dl123's are currently made by Panasonic and are the same exact battery as the Panasonic 1550mAh batteries.
i was also told that no Panasonic or Duracell rep would admit this.

i am by no means a professional in batteries, i'm curious to know also.
 
CHC,

That's Lithium ION they're talking about, right? Not Li-primary. But thanks for the article excerpt!

THE Day,

Being made "to the same spec" isn't the same as being identicle, or being made by the same factory.

I would believe that Panasonic makes most CR123A's, including SF123A's, but at the moment I do NOT believe that they make Duracell Ultra's as well. There were pictures posted by NewBie (IIRC) of the construction of Duracell Ultra's showing that they were significantly different (and somewhat better/high quality) than all the other 123's, and their performance is certainly different and better than almost all other 123's. So if that's no longer the case, that would imply that their performance and quality consistency would also drop. So if it's true, I'd really like to know one way or another. Maybe someone can send SilverFox some Duracell Ultra's with a 2016 or later expiration date and have him test them to compare their perfomance against the earlier tests.

Damn. I really hate this. As soon as you find a reliable, pleasingly high quality, consistent, GOOD source for batteries, something changes. Guaranteed. God I hate that. I'm thinking maybe I should just order 300 DL123A's with a 2012 or 2013 or 2014 expiration date and be done with it for the next five or so years.
 
i understand that same spec doesn't mean made identical, i was just adding more info about the topic to this thread.

as for having silverfox test them, that sounds great.

i can send: 2 new Duracell dl123's 2016 made in U.S.
2 new Duracell dl123's 2017 made in Japan.

i don't however have any made prior to 2005.

js, will send pm.
 
here's some pics of the dl123's from Japan and USA.

Japan on left, USA on right:
duracell1jm1.jpg
duracell3ri1.jpg

duracell2mp8.jpg
duracell4gz7.jpg
 
I've heard from one source that supposedly Duracell stopped making their own CR123A (or rather DL123A) Li-MN-O2 cells as of 2005. The last time I bought Duracell Ultra 123's I got them from www.cheapbatteries.com. According to them, the ones they have expire 2012 or 2013, which would mean they were still made by Duracell even if the above is true.

And if this is true, what does it mean?

Can anyone shed some more light on this? Links?

Jim, the last batch I bought, and from which several were sent to Silverfox for testing, only had two vent holes as opposed to the three vent holes that characterized Duracells before that. The Procells however did have the three vent holes. There was prpbably a switch in manufacturer there. Despite this, performance was excellent.

On another note, my provider www.batteriesandbutter.com in NY has just lowered the price of 50 duracells to $1.70 ea down from $2.00 ea.
Also, the procells have GONE UP from $2.25 ea. to $2.50 ea for 48 cells.
Does this say something ? could be the Procells are still made better and by them ? I don't know.
 
Found an article, but I don't know if this really answers your question, but here's an excerpt:

Off topic: I drove by the old GE/Gates/Energizer/Moltech plant today. The plant was actually built in the early seventies by GE. I don't remember any new construction back in 1997, but I could be wrong.

There's a sign out front for another company, although I can't recall it now. Also it seems that the plant is being carved up into several separate industrial/commerce parks. So I doubt anyone will be making any type of batteries here anymore.
 
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interesting info LED61, the ones you sent to SilverFox did very well and were the newer 2 vent hole version.
do you by any chance have any of the 3 vent duracells or procells?

i got a hold of SilverFox and he will generously do testing for us.
i will be sending him:
2 duracells USA 2016
2 duracells Japan 2017
2 panasonic USA 2017

js has mentioned he will try and send duracells USA prior to 2005.

at any rate, SilverFox's testing should be able to clear a few things up about any performance changes.
 
Yes, I have some 3 vent procells and ultras but cannot send them from here overseas. The three vent hole Procells did the best. If it is true that you get what you pay for from a company like Duracell, the procells should still hold the upper edge.

The three hole Procells have engraved 2005 04 with use before MAR 2014, and three hole Ultras have 2005 02 with use before MAR 2015.

The newer two hole version of the Ultras have a different engraving "05 12". That would probably mean that sometime between April and December 2005 manufacturing changes took place and it seems to match Jim's info. But the new two vent 05 12 Duracells did really well with Tom.
 
did you get the 3 vent procells and ultras from batteriesandbutter.com recently?

i can't find the thread which was years ago, but i remember it stated that the procell 123 and duracell ultra 123 were the same.

i don't know if this relates but i've recently checked the data sheets for the duracell ultra AA and AAA and they are identical to the procell AA and AAA cells.

EDIT: lol, just found the thread i was looking for and it was started by you LED61 and it was only last year.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=142350&highlight=procell
 
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dano, this would explain things. Not looking good.

Great. Really great. Yet another high quality item going away it seems.

I have three Duracell 123's left from my first order and they all have an exp. of Mar 2015. I have 60 that exp. in 2016. So I'm not sure about the three 2015 cells. They have two vent holes.

On the upside, they've all performed very well, I think, although I haven't done any quantitative discharge testing. Just been using them and haven't noticed anything but expected runtimes and performance or better.

Do we need to find some Duracell Ultras with 2014 exp. or older?
 
no worries, when the panasonics arrive i will send my batch:
2 duracells USA 2016
2 duracells Japan 2017
2 panasonic USA 2017

we can then compare SilverFox's results with his previous tests on LED61's duracells(2 vent) and procells(3 vent).

we will also find out if the new duracells and the panasonics are the same.
 
Try to send 4 each to Silverfox, I know it's a financial burden but its the minimum he needs for accurate testing. Thanks so much for contributing to this cause!!!!
 
Actually,

I was thinking: we don't need to get pre 2005 made CR123A's for Tom to test. Presumably, those were the ones that did so well in his testing that has already been completed.

So, all we need to see is how the new post 2005 made 123's perform and compare it to the tests already done.

Right?
 
Jim, actually the duracells I sent to Tom were the newly manufactured with date 05 12. This date is already past the transfer date and the batteries show marked differences. The procells I sent to Tom were still made in the previous factory.
 
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