Dollhouse: a new Joss Whedon TV series!

js

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js,

I respect you as a flashtneer (flashlight pioneer) and so I admire your enthusiasm for the Dollhouse. I will continue watching!

Thanks. But, I'm not sure I would characterize it as enthusiasm. I have had reservations, so far, but the episodes are getting better and better for me, and I can sense a lot of potential in the show, and I'm definitely enjoying it, so I will absolutely for sure keep watching, but certainly, it's not up to the level set by Firefly or Buffy The Vampire Slayer. Not yet, anyway. I would characterize my feelings for those two shows as ENTHUSIASTIC!!! with three exclamation points. Like, fan-boy type level. I love those two shows. Incredible stuff. So, Dollhouse isn't at that level, to be sure, but I have hope for it. A lot of hope.
 

RocketTomato

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This is actually why story telling and fiction and fairy tales are regarded as very dangerous and insidious by certain hard nosed Christians or other monotheistic religions. A story can make even the most corrupt criminal sympathetic! Rousseau points this out in his First Discourse, if I remember correctly. A good story could easily be set in a brothel, and could easily make you sympathize with many of the characters, even the "bad" ones.

You are absolutely right. It all depends on the story telling. I did not mean to say that a good story could not make morally corrupt characters sympathetic, otherwise mob shows and movies would not be very popular. "The Godfather" made Michael a very sympathetic character.

However, I do not feel that "Dollhouse" has done that yet with a majority of the characters, the exceptions being Sierra, the suspended FBI agent and to some extent the scarred doctor. They need to make us care more for Echo.
 

Monocrom

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As an author, (and I suspect that Monocrom will back me up on this), you simply can NOT think of ANY of your characters as "evil" and unsympathetic. Indeed, those are the characters that demand the greatest efforts at understanding, motivation, make-up, --in short, an effort at sympathy. Otherwise, your "villains" will end up being very flat and two dimensional and uninteresting. BOOOORING.

It's fun to create bad guys. And you have to humanize them to a certain extent, otherwise modern readers will not get hooked in. Traditional motivations make things a bit easier. Desire for money, control, ambition, envy, or even a twisted sense of love. So motivation is the easy part.

However, it's tough to make certain characters sympathetic. A brothel worker is easy. Put her in a country with extreme poverty, and no national safety net. Give her a young child she has to feed and care for. Perhaps an abusive boyfriend. One of my most popular characters is based on a young woman with a sweet personality. (Her nickname is Hug Monster). I've used her as the basis for some of my most popular characters... Including a professional assassin. I made her character sympathetic by giving her emotions that she, usually, kept hidden to everyone but the reader.

An assassin is one thing, but other types of "bad guys" aren't worth touching. A perfect example is the film "Trapped" that starred Kevin Bacon. It died a quick death at the box office because few folks want to sit through a film about child abduction. Some bad guys and subject matters will instantly turn off the majority of readers.
 

Monocrom

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Had to revive this thread.

The season finale kicked @$$!

Plenty of twists and turns.... and an ending that will likely surprise everyone.

I won't give anything away for all you TiVo addicts who haven't seen it yet.

But I will say that I sure do love Whiskey. :whistle:
 

js

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I have to agree: the season finale DID kick a**! Now I'm really really hoping that this show gets picked up for another season on one network or another. Please (fingers crossed) please please . . .
 

js

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There is a 13th episode which didn't air. Some guess that it will be on the DVD set if the show gets canceled, but will be used for next season if it doesn't.
 

Monocrom

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There is a 13th episode which didn't air. Some guess that it will be on the DVD set if the show gets canceled, but will be used for next season if it doesn't.

Another reason to hope it doesn't get cancelled. I have noticed that 13 episodes is usually the standard for a season on other shows.
 

elgarak

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Do you mean a Season 1 DVD filled with extras, or an actual episode only available on DVD? I seriously hope it's not the latter. That would be a terrible idea.
There is the original pilot, which was removed late in post-production, allegedly by Joss Whedon himself, and was always promised to be part of the DVD. It features a pretty different story, and does not fit into the arc of the 12 broadcast episodes. Some scenes at the end of the season finale are said to be taken from this pilot (the 'wrap-up' dialog between Langton and DeWitt).

Then there's the "13th episode". I'm not sure what it is, but from all interviews, it does not seem to be a 'proper' Dollhouse episode at all, but a stand-alone episode, which was essentially cooked up to fill the 13-episode slot for international syndication and DVD deals without hurting the main Dollhouse story arc (as the original pilot does). Which probably means it will show up in international broadcasts, and probably on the US DVD. However, Fox has announced it will not be available for online streams (i.e., Hulu).
 

js

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Ah, so this 13th episode would definitely NOT be used for season 2 (assuming there is a season 2). Good to know.
 

Onuris

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As for the Dollhouse, it's unclear what is really behind the curtain, and what their true goals and objectives are. Certainly making money is one of them, but it's definitely more than that.

We shall see.

After watching the first few episodes, I almost gave up, but stuck with it anyway. Just hoping that there is something exciting that is going to happen, maybe some good underlying plot that will make it worth watching.

...the fat chick...

Are you referring to Mellie/November played by Miracle Laurie? IMO she is not "fat", but built the way real women should be- soft and curvy. She is not obese or have any fat rolls on her whatsoever. My gf has a body like that. Yummy. IMO, while they are beautiful women I think Eliza Dushku and Dichen Lachman would be more attractive if they added a few pounds on, esp on their hips/thighs/butts. To each their own I suppose.

An assassin is one thing, but other types of "bad guys" aren't worth touching. A perfect example is the film "Trapped" that starred Kevin Bacon. It died a quick death at the box office because few folks want to sit through a film about child abduction. Some bad guys and subject matters will instantly turn off the majority of readers.

I might have to dissagree with that somewhat. A good example is the excellent hit movie "The Deep End Of The Ocean" starring Michelle Pfeiffer, that deals with the abduction of her 3 year old son who was not found until 9 years later. Whether or not a movie is successful and worth watching depends more on how the movie is scripted and presented than what the actual subject matter is.
 

Monocrom

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I might have to disagree with that somewhat. A good example is the excellent hit movie "The Deep End Of The Ocean" starring Michelle Pfeiffer, that deals with the abduction of her 3 year old son who was not found until 9 years later. Whether or not a movie is successful and worth watching depends more on how the movie is scripted and presented than what the actual subject matter is.

It does play a big part when deciding which point of view to tackle a particular subject matter from. In college, we had to read a forgettable novel about a young man who kills his date, during a fit of anger. The author chose to tell the tale from the point of view of the parents of the young man, especially the father... who discovers that his son is guilty, and covers for him without the son knowing it.

The class hated it! When asked what would have made it better, nearly everyone agreed that it should have been told from the son's point of view. Everyone was curious as to what was going on in his head. Did he realize what he had done? Was he sorry for what he did? Was he easily able to live with himself?

However, the son faded into the background to the point that he became a hot-headed, cold-blooded, monster. Another reason why the class hated the book.

Some subject matters are like cooking a fancy dish. If you don't do it just right, no one will be able to stomach your efforts.
 

js

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So, Dollhouse is indeed back. The first episode was promising, but didn't blow me away. Here's hoping for a spectacular second season!
 
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