After buying and using many of the Dorcy 1AAA version LED lights, I have been very pleased with this little light. Thinking the 1AA 3LED version would offer much more light, I picked one up tonight at Target. Naturally, my first test, was to compare it to it's smaller brother. To my disappointment, they are basically the same brightness, both with brand new battery. Was I wrong to assume the 3LED version should have been much brighter than the single LED version? If so, what then, is the advantage of the 3LED version? Vincent, can you help? I'm thinking of taking it back to get another 1AAA instead and have $4 to spare.
DORCY 1AAA vs. DORCY 1AA
- Thread starter jbrett14
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franken2
Newly Enlightened
H'mm, My 1AA seems 3 times brighter than my 1AAA. 1AA on 1600mh nimh and 1AAA on rayovac maximum. (not plus).Hats off to Dorcy's new led line.
indenial
Enlightened
I did my own comparison, and I have to say that I think Jbrett is right. There is very little discernable difference in brightness. Similar hotspot. And, in fact, the 1AAA has a wider, more defined sidespill! Weird.
Doug S
Flashlight Enthusiast
[ QUOTE ]
jbrett14 said:
After buying and using many of the Dorcy 1AAA version LED lights, I have been very pleased with this little light. Thinking the 1AA 3LED version would offer much more light, I picked one up tonight at Target. Naturally, my first test, was to compare it to it's smaller brother. To my disappointment, they are basically the same brightness, both with brand new battery. Was I wrong to assume the 3LED version should have been much brighter than the single LED version? If so, what then, is the advantage of the 3LED version? Vincent, can you help? I'm thinking of taking it back to get another 1AAA instead and have $4 to spare.
[/ QUOTE ]
Was I wrong to assume the 3LED version should have been much brighter than the single LED version?
Apparently so. I, as well as others, have had the same experience. It has the same circuit driven by the same voltage so it delivers *about* the same power. The only difference is that the power is divided among 3 LEDs. This should provide a little higher efficiency on average. The other advantage is that the AA should offer twice the runtime of the AAA. I personally much prefer the AAA version of this light.
jbrett14 said:
After buying and using many of the Dorcy 1AAA version LED lights, I have been very pleased with this little light. Thinking the 1AA 3LED version would offer much more light, I picked one up tonight at Target. Naturally, my first test, was to compare it to it's smaller brother. To my disappointment, they are basically the same brightness, both with brand new battery. Was I wrong to assume the 3LED version should have been much brighter than the single LED version? If so, what then, is the advantage of the 3LED version? Vincent, can you help? I'm thinking of taking it back to get another 1AAA instead and have $4 to spare.
[/ QUOTE ]
Was I wrong to assume the 3LED version should have been much brighter than the single LED version?
Apparently so. I, as well as others, have had the same experience. It has the same circuit driven by the same voltage so it delivers *about* the same power. The only difference is that the power is divided among 3 LEDs. This should provide a little higher efficiency on average. The other advantage is that the AA should offer twice the runtime of the AAA. I personally much prefer the AAA version of this light.
The_LED_Museum
*Retired*
I did a quick ceiling comparison of the two, and the Dorcy 3-LED is significantly brighter than the Dorcy 1-LED.
Yet when the two were metered, the 3-LED is only slightly brighter than the 1-LED. 22,800mcd vs. 21,600mcd.
The 3-LED has a noticeably wider beam than the 1-LED; perhaps this accounts for the disparity of comparisons vs. meter readings at 12".
Yet when the two were metered, the 3-LED is only slightly brighter than the 1-LED. 22,800mcd vs. 21,600mcd.
The 3-LED has a noticeably wider beam than the 1-LED; perhaps this accounts for the disparity of comparisons vs. meter readings at 12".
gadget_lover
Flashaholic
The current draw is roughly the same. The lumens (4) and lux (215) are about the same for both according to my measuring equipment.
The AAA is overdriving it's LED by about 50 ma, running it at 350% of it's design current. The AA is driving it's LEDs at spec. There should be fewer cases of early LED death in the AA. The LEDs appear marginally whiter in the AA.
The AA also has almost no artifacts becasue the beams of the three leds overlap with each other. The AAA has a LOT of artifacts. I like the beam of the AA much better when using it for a walking around light. It's hard to tell a shadow from an artifact when walking.
The AA can also drive a Luxeon quite well. With a 1.5 volt aa battery it will push just about 200 ma into a 1 watt luxeon. Use a 3 volt AA and it will easily drive over 350ma. There's a thread on modding the 1AA to use a lux.
The AAA is overdriving it's LED by about 50 ma, running it at 350% of it's design current. The AA is driving it's LEDs at spec. There should be fewer cases of early LED death in the AA. The LEDs appear marginally whiter in the AA.
The AA also has almost no artifacts becasue the beams of the three leds overlap with each other. The AAA has a LOT of artifacts. I like the beam of the AA much better when using it for a walking around light. It's hard to tell a shadow from an artifact when walking.
The AA can also drive a Luxeon quite well. With a 1.5 volt aa battery it will push just about 200 ma into a 1 watt luxeon. Use a 3 volt AA and it will easily drive over 350ma. There's a thread on modding the 1AA to use a lux.
I really appreciate the posts from you guys. It would have been nice to have questioned this issue prior to my purchase. However, I do not live that close to the Target store where I purchased, and only decided to buy this light while I happened to be there. It was not planned, otherwise I certainly would have posted this question in advance and would never have bought this light, as it's minor advantages are too small to consider over the 1AAA. I don't like to assume things, but in this case I did, assuming there was a different type of circuitry to make each LED as bright as the single LED version, and not /3. This light is going back to Target for another 1AAA. I am amazed at the output of this little 1AAA, and for $5.94 at Wal-Mart, how can you go wrong. Thanks again for the education.
gadget_lover
Flashaholic
Before taking it back, it's worthwhile to try the "dark room" comparison to see if thge smoother beam has any value to you.
My garage is a good place for such a test. It's cluttered. and dark. Using the AAA lets me see what I'm looking for, but there are those dark rings around the hot spot. They makes it difficult to discern the stain on the floor from a leaking water bottle (or leaking cat) against the grey concrete. The smooth beam from the 3 leds make the stain much more noticable.
The other advantage to the AA over the AAA is the runtime of the light. The AA battery typically has 2750mAh where the AA has 1150mAh. That means that the 1AA 3LED will run 2.5 times longer at 100ma drain. (The math: 2750 / 100 = about 27 hours.)
I'm partial to the 1aa-3led Dorcy. The form factor is not perfect, but it's quite usable, the beam pattern is nice, long running and, at under $10 it's cheap.
Daniel
My garage is a good place for such a test. It's cluttered. and dark. Using the AAA lets me see what I'm looking for, but there are those dark rings around the hot spot. They makes it difficult to discern the stain on the floor from a leaking water bottle (or leaking cat) against the grey concrete. The smooth beam from the 3 leds make the stain much more noticable.
The other advantage to the AA over the AAA is the runtime of the light. The AA battery typically has 2750mAh where the AA has 1150mAh. That means that the 1AA 3LED will run 2.5 times longer at 100ma drain. (The math: 2750 / 100 = about 27 hours.)
I'm partial to the 1aa-3led Dorcy. The form factor is not perfect, but it's quite usable, the beam pattern is nice, long running and, at under $10 it's cheap.
Daniel
[ QUOTE ]
jbrett14 said:
Was I wrong to assume the 3LED version should have been much brighter than the single LED version? If so, what then, is the advantage of the 3LED version? Vincent, can you help?
[/ QUOTE ]
You overrate (and flatter) me - this is one case I can't help - as I don't have a Dorcy 3LED 1AA to compare.
But from the other posts it seems that most others have the same experience as you.
Personally I think both the 1AAA and 1AA are much bigger than need be.
Where the 1AAA's over-size actually makes it better for both in-pocket carry and use in hand.
The over-sized 1AA would make it way too big for easy pants pocket carry - so that alone would rule it out for pocket carry for me.
Then on top of that to hear it is not much brighter (if at all) over the 1AAA - probably means I won't even consider buying one.
The 1AA X5 lookalike from China seems to me to be a much better bet.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=541131
jbrett14 said:
Was I wrong to assume the 3LED version should have been much brighter than the single LED version? If so, what then, is the advantage of the 3LED version? Vincent, can you help?
[/ QUOTE ]
You overrate (and flatter) me - this is one case I can't help - as I don't have a Dorcy 3LED 1AA to compare.
But from the other posts it seems that most others have the same experience as you.
Personally I think both the 1AAA and 1AA are much bigger than need be.
Where the 1AAA's over-size actually makes it better for both in-pocket carry and use in hand.
The over-sized 1AA would make it way too big for easy pants pocket carry - so that alone would rule it out for pocket carry for me.
Then on top of that to hear it is not much brighter (if at all) over the 1AAA - probably means I won't even consider buying one.
The 1AA X5 lookalike from China seems to me to be a much better bet.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=541131
I like both of the Dorcy's. The 3 led one may not be significantly brighter, but the beam is a lot smoother and nicer. If the brightness of the aa light is that big of an issue you can mod it with a luxeon. Look here.
TrueBlue
Flashlight Enthusiast
I like modding the Dorcy lights. They are inexpensive to buy and easy, once you know the tricks, to pull apart. The Dorcy's have lots of room in the head to work in since the electronics are in the body of the light. Here are a couple of beam shot of modded Dorcy AA and 2AA lights.
carbonsparky
Enlightened
I have 3 Dorcy 1AAA lights, love each one of them. I also have a Dorcy 1AA, it still is using the original Dorcy battery. I don't think you can argue over differance in light output with fresh batteries in each. But I have noticied after equal amounts of use the Dorcy 3led 1AA holds it output much better than the AAA light does.
My Dorcy 3led is now being converted to a luxeon, my experiments with driving a Luxeon indicates darn good output with very modest effort.
My Dorcy 3led is now being converted to a luxeon, my experiments with driving a Luxeon indicates darn good output with very modest effort.
TrueBlue
Flashlight Enthusiast
The Dorcy 1AA is an all together different animal with a Lux light installed in it. I used a penny as a heat sink in the light but I don't think the mA output of the circuit board is high enough to worry about slow cooking the LED. On my 2AA Dorcy with a Lux 1 watt I measured 5.22-volts and 19-mA coming from the output of the electronics board and into the LED. That would translate to only .1-watts going through the LED.
gadget_lover
Flashaholic
Haveblue, you may need to re-measure. The values don't measure up properly.
At 5.22 volts a 1 watt luxeon should be pulling over an amp. A 1 watt at it's Vf should pull .35 amds (350ma) and the average 1 watt has a Vf less than 4 volts. To pull only .19 amps (190 ma) would give you about 1 watt at 5.22 volts, but to draw 19 ma at 5.22 volts would indicate that you were using a lux V with a Vf in the 'S', 'T' or 'U' range.
I get the following figures with a swak lux III on a Dorcy 2AA body.
3.323 volts at 225 ma. That's .7476 watts and fits within the expected values for a Vf between 3.51 and 3.75
Daniel
At 5.22 volts a 1 watt luxeon should be pulling over an amp. A 1 watt at it's Vf should pull .35 amds (350ma) and the average 1 watt has a Vf less than 4 volts. To pull only .19 amps (190 ma) would give you about 1 watt at 5.22 volts, but to draw 19 ma at 5.22 volts would indicate that you were using a lux V with a Vf in the 'S', 'T' or 'U' range.
I get the following figures with a swak lux III on a Dorcy 2AA body.
3.323 volts at 225 ma. That's .7476 watts and fits within the expected values for a Vf between 3.51 and 3.75
Daniel
TrueBlue
Flashlight Enthusiast
The way I figure, and I could be wrong..a lot, is the 1 watt LED is capable of running 1 watt but doesn't have to. The analogy is kind of like a car engine. A car can get up to 120 mph but it doesn't have to. And a car that sustained 120 mph would have to have a large and heavy-duty fuel pump to pour fuel into that high performance engine.
I figured the Dorcy electronics in the light to give it a decent run time would not be running full speed. The small electronics would break down with sustained output. And since the light was made for the masses it would have to be under run for reliability and to maintain the Dorcy company reputation. So 19 mA might be right. I did calculate if it ran at 190 mA and you are right; the calculation with that number would run the Lux at just under 1 Watt.
Maybe someone, someday, will be able to make another measurement. I'm not great with digital multimeters...I grew up with anolog ones but my wife bought me a new digital for Christmas so I have to act like I like to use it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
I figured the Dorcy electronics in the light to give it a decent run time would not be running full speed. The small electronics would break down with sustained output. And since the light was made for the masses it would have to be under run for reliability and to maintain the Dorcy company reputation. So 19 mA might be right. I did calculate if it ran at 190 mA and you are right; the calculation with that number would run the Lux at just under 1 Watt.
Maybe someone, someday, will be able to make another measurement. I'm not great with digital multimeters...I grew up with anolog ones but my wife bought me a new digital for Christmas so I have to act like I like to use it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
gadget_lover
Flashaholic
Your car analogy is a good one. The current os like RPMs and the Voltage is like the throttle. More voltage = more current. A common Foward Voltage (Vf) is K bin and will be between 3.5 and 3.75 volts.
Assume that your car will always run at 2000 RPM when you have the throttle 1/2 open; The 1 watt luxeon with a K Vf will allways pull 350ma somewhere between 3.5 and 3.75 volts. If you run your car with the throttle wide open it's RPMs will exceed it's redline; If the voltage is too high the current will exceed the LED's capabiliteis and something will melt.
So all I was saying was that it's likely that you misplaced a decimal or something. The digital meter is your friend /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif and the more you measure things with it the more comfortable you will be. It can do things the analog can't, like showing the battery level dropping second by second or locating a short by finding the spot in the wiring where the resistance is the lowest.
I hope that I didn't say anything that might have seemed less than encouraging.
Daniel
Assume that your car will always run at 2000 RPM when you have the throttle 1/2 open; The 1 watt luxeon with a K Vf will allways pull 350ma somewhere between 3.5 and 3.75 volts. If you run your car with the throttle wide open it's RPMs will exceed it's redline; If the voltage is too high the current will exceed the LED's capabiliteis and something will melt.
So all I was saying was that it's likely that you misplaced a decimal or something. The digital meter is your friend /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif and the more you measure things with it the more comfortable you will be. It can do things the analog can't, like showing the battery level dropping second by second or locating a short by finding the spot in the wiring where the resistance is the lowest.
I hope that I didn't say anything that might have seemed less than encouraging.
Daniel
carbonsparky
Enlightened
When you measure the current, use your 10 amp range. This will give you the least amount of added series resistance from meter insertion. Yes, your display resolution goes down but the lower resistance will give you a more acurrate current reading.
TrueBlue
Flashlight Enthusiast
I've got to get that digital multimeter instructions out and read it more. I liked using an analog multi because I could average a reading quickly. The needle also made it easy to see how close I was getting to a 'red line' on readings. The needle was an indicator that worked in my head. I've been using a needle multi since 1968 so I suppose it is past technology and isn't used anymore. It is time for me to really look at trying to like a digital multimeter.
Oh, I wanted to add that the 'LongStar' mod, my Dorcy 2AA 1-watt Lux was quite a success last night. I'm sure it had to do with the optics but I had the nicest and consistent flood light pattern of any of my lights. And in the center of the beam it had a nice round spot light. For a light brightness reference I used a Badboy 400. The light difference was, in camera terms; Badboy was 1.1-stop brighter. In real life (meaning I use analog 4-eyes), in my backyard, the LongStar look almost as bright as Badboy. LongStar had the advantage of a beautiful floodlight effect. The LongStar light was a whiter color and had that nice flood light pattern and intensity that was reminiscent of my incandescent lights. In my analog, behind the times brain, the numbers meant Badboy was putting out 4x the light but in apparent brightness it only looked one notch brighter. So I temporarily assume if the boost converters are the same efficiency then 'LongStar' should last 4x longer in brightness. My Badboy will last 2 hours on 1800-mA batteries so the LongStar should be 8 hours of brightness.
With another test using a stock Dorcy 2AA 4LED LongStar just booted the stock light out of the back yard. The modded Dorcy was just so much better. I'd recommend this for a mod easily.
For walking around at night I'd prefer using the LongStar light.
Oh, I wanted to add that the 'LongStar' mod, my Dorcy 2AA 1-watt Lux was quite a success last night. I'm sure it had to do with the optics but I had the nicest and consistent flood light pattern of any of my lights. And in the center of the beam it had a nice round spot light. For a light brightness reference I used a Badboy 400. The light difference was, in camera terms; Badboy was 1.1-stop brighter. In real life (meaning I use analog 4-eyes), in my backyard, the LongStar look almost as bright as Badboy. LongStar had the advantage of a beautiful floodlight effect. The LongStar light was a whiter color and had that nice flood light pattern and intensity that was reminiscent of my incandescent lights. In my analog, behind the times brain, the numbers meant Badboy was putting out 4x the light but in apparent brightness it only looked one notch brighter. So I temporarily assume if the boost converters are the same efficiency then 'LongStar' should last 4x longer in brightness. My Badboy will last 2 hours on 1800-mA batteries so the LongStar should be 8 hours of brightness.
With another test using a stock Dorcy 2AA 4LED LongStar just booted the stock light out of the back yard. The modded Dorcy was just so much better. I'd recommend this for a mod easily.
For walking around at night I'd prefer using the LongStar light.
