Dream!!! G2/G3 Nitrolon Turbohead

[allburger]

Anyone else out there think it would be awesome to see a nitrolon turbohead priced reasonably for say ~$50-60.

I think it would look awesome and be an incredibly durable light.

 

[nzgunnie]

One in OD would be great.

 

[Sgt. LED]

I'll take a yellow one, oh and since we are dreaming I will go ahead and take a yellow G3 body to go with it.

EDIT! I will be asking for a glass lens too, I know you'd think it's a given on a turbohead but...................

 

[Kestrel]

That's a pretty good idea!:thumbsup:

 

[flashfan]

This is a really great idea! I'd want one.

 

[allburger]

I wonder if someone has access to a plastic injection molding that could make us some of these. I have no idea what it would take to make something like that. But I do believe these would sell like crazy.

 

[Kestrel]

I wonder if someone has access to a plastic injection molding that could make us some of these. I have no idea what it would take to make something like that. But I do believe these would sell like crazy.

I used to do some injection molding design work, the molds are spendy. It would probably be ~$25K at a minimum just for the tooling, so you'd need a large run to make it pay off. It would probably be cheaper for SF to just machine more aluminum KT TH's. But that wouldn't be nearly as cool.

 

[allburger]

Thats understandable. Lets all tell surefire we want them then.

 

[Chrontius]

Do they read these threads? I think the answer is yes.

Can the molds be cast using a stereolithography machine?

 

[Kestrel]

Can the molds be cast using a stereolithography machine?

It's actually pretty interesting. Graphite electrodes in the exact shape of the part that you want are machined, then they are used via electron-discharge machining to remove the exact-sized volumes of metal from the two halves of the mold blocks. It seems pretty involved to me, but these folks seem to know what they're doing. I think that this technique results in mold halves that mate very well and can subsequently run a high part-count per hour with minimal interruption by the operator.

During the inevitable mold revisions to fine-tune the parts you're trying to make, it often isn't as simple as modifying the mold itself, you have to machine new electrodes of the updated shape prior to modifying the mold with them.

 

[Kestrel]

After thinking about this for a little more, how about something like a 1.75" mini nitrolon turbohead for the G2/G3? It would look perfectly proportioned for those bodies and differentiate it from the standard aluminum 2.5" KT series. That's something I would definitely add to my collection, as I already have a KT-2 TH and don't really need the same thing made from just a different material.

Edit: Also, since the injection mold would be smaller, the tooling would be considerably cheaper and/or easier to make it a 2-cavity mold for twice the parts output.

Edit: FWIW I just PM'd Stuart@surefire (on CPF) this link. Ya never know...:shrug:

 

[Sgt. LED]

Then in that case I'd like to opportunity to beg for the 200th time that they make a yellow G3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[allburger]

I agree, the turbohead wouldn't have to be 2.5" but it could be something smaller. I think that something that held the D36's would be sweet, or maybe something more like the M3 head but with bigger reflector.

 

[Chrontius]

Would it be cheaper to make one that would take the N1 and N2 bulbs, or one taking M3 bulbs?

Also, Kestrel, the fine tuning can be done purely in CAD, and the resulting parts can be one-off'd using rapid prototyping. You really don't need to make a mold at all until the very end.

 

[ampdude]

I think it would be cool too. But let's be realistic, Surefire isn't likely to make anything new in incan ever again.

 

[Kestrel]

the fine tuning can be done purely in CAD, and the resulting parts can be one-off'd using rapid prototyping. You really don't need to make a mold at all until the very end.

From my experience related to getting plastic parts to mate well, it did take a few mold revisions to minimize mating gaps primarily due to part shrinkage and tolerance stacks. We did everything in 3-D CAD, but working alongside folks who had spent their entire careers in CAD & injection molding, it still would take a few mold revisions. And this doesn't even take into account errors made in the actual mold machining process, which were always unfortunate surprises.

Also, regarding rapid prototyping, that makes a different part than an injection-molded part. We generally had a few molding issues to take care of that rapid prototyping can't catch, as that is by its very nature not the final manufactured part with its related characteristics (such as shrinkage). BTW, just curious, what type of CAD / plastic injection molding have you seen that didn't require mold revisions? Our assemblies would consist of multiple injection-molded parts and fitment issues always seemed to crop up after the prototypes were dialed in, and this was at a pretty experienced high-end manufacturer.

I think it would be cool too. But let's be realistic, Surefire isn't likely to make anything new in incan ever again.

It doesn't have to be incan, SF is supposedly introducing a few new LED Turbohead products, and there's no reason SF couldn't mate an LED to a nitrolon turbohead. But the crux of the matter is whether SF is interested in making a considerable investment into & expanding their Nitrolon product line or not. Probably not.:thinking:

 

[ampdude]

It doesn't have to be incan, SF is supposedly introducing a few new LED Turbohead products, and there's no reason SF couldn't mate an LED to a nitrolon turbohead. But the crux of the matter is whether SF is interested in making a considerable investment into & expanding their Nitrolon product line or not. Probably not.:thinking:

Why would Surefire make an LED turbohead made out of a material that has no thermal transfer? They already learned their lesson with the very first G2L's.

A nitrolon turbohead with an incan bulb would be just about perfect as a work or tough light. My favorite worklight is my G2-OD, since even though I am careful with it, I never have to worry about accidently scraping it against something, or how many times I pull it in and out of a pocket or holster, it doesn't get finish wear. It doesn't show it's scars very easily. And it's even lighter than a 6P. I run a P90 in it with two IMR16340 cells. It has everything I want in a worklight... it's cheap, high quality, durable, good enough runtime, nice beam, bright, no worries, can be used with a lanyard, it's American made.

The only thing it lacks is better throw which would be solved with a nitrolon turbohead.

 

[Kestrel]

ampdude, I wholeheartedly agree with most of your post. The only thing is that there should be adequate thermal transfer - the conductive surface area of a 2.5" turbohead is probably at least six times that of the standard bezel (I'm looking at both here at my desk right now), and that doesn't even count the lens area. Also, there is definitely more room for some kind of heatsink in the TH. The poor P60's just don't have any room for add'l heatsinking in the current G2 heads.

My two lumens,

 

[nzgunnie]

But surely that's just a larger surface area of insulating material (Nitrolon)?

It might be better than a smaller surface area of nitrolon, but I wouldn't think it would carry away enough heat for the LED.

 

[Chrontius]

From my experience related to getting plastic parts to mate well, it did take a few mold revisions to minimize mating gaps primarily due to part shrinkage and tolerance stacks. We did everything in 3-D CAD, but working alongside folks who had spent their entire careers in CAD & injection molding, it still would take a few mold revisions. And this doesn't even take into account errors made in the actual mold machining process, which were always unfortunate surprises.

There should be no issue with tolerance stacks, as I'm imagining actually making a mold out of plastic (or sintered metal, I guess) using a rapid-prototyper. Tolerance stack should be nonexistant, since you've only one layer - threads to the body,and threads to a bezel retaining ring, the orientation of which with each other is a non issue.

Also, regarding rapid prototyping, that makes a different part than an injection-molded part. We generally had a few molding issues to take care of that rapid prototyping can't catch, as that is by its very nature not the final manufactured part with its related characteristics (such as shrinkage). BTW, just curious, what type of CAD / plastic injection molding have you seen that didn't require mold revisions? Our assemblies would consist of multiple injection-molded parts and fitment issues always seemed to crop up after the prototypes were dialed in, and this was at a pretty experienced high-end manufacturer.

That's the idea, I don't want to use the fabricator to make prototypes, I want it to make the machine to make products.

It doesn't have to be incan, SF is supposedly introducing a few new LED Turbohead products, and there's no reason SF couldn't mate an LED to a nitrolon turbohead. But the crux of the matter is whether SF is interested in making a considerable investment into & expanding their Nitrolon product line or not. Probably not.:thinking:

Can't see them adding a LED turbohead to the nitrolon line any time soon. Incan, sure - it'll go great with a G2Z, and be crazy light, but the cooling seems impractical without some hunk of metal exposed.