spc smith
Enlightened
crap! i just bought ultrafire 3000mah 18650 battery at BJ with my gift coupon, for my olight M20X.. did i screw up ?
Fake Ultrafire 18650 battery warning
- Thread starter xxllmm4
- Start date
Help Support Candle Power Flashlight Forum
Fallingwater
Flashlight Enthusiast
I'll go against the flow here and say that I don't subscribe to the "only buy super-high-quality cells" school of thought.
Ultrafire is a known dodgy brand. They have some half-decent flashlights, but the batteries are junk. I can say this with some experience, as I used Ultrafire 18650s to recell a pocketPC's battery pack and it died a few months afterwards after very little use. 16340s also seem to die fairly quickly.
On the other hand, Trustfire cells from DX are fairly good; the "flaming" protected ones sold in the 2x pack have actually been tested and proved surprisingly capable - in fact, they sometimes exceed their rated capacity. Two of them are now in the aforementioned battery pack which still works perfectly after months and a number of full cycles. Another one seems to have no problems whatsoever powering my SC600 on turbo (3A) after I removed its protection circuit.
There are varying reports on the grey and blue ones, but I've had no problems with them - a blue Trustfire has powered my XP-G L-Mini for 2 years now and was still capable of running my SC600 on Turbo when I tried it yesterday (before giving it the "flaming" one), and I used greys for other things with no problems.
I can buy three "flaming" Trustfires for each AW (and this is before shipping expenses); more, actually, if I buy three 2-packs and get the bulk discount. As far as I'm concerned, this makes them clear winners in my book. I'd only buy a premium cell if I absolutely needed super-high capacity, as there's no such thing as a cheap 3Ah cell, from Trustfire or any other brand - and even then I'd go straight for the original manufacturer and buy Panasonic NCR cells instead. Note that OEM cells are always unprotected, but I don't trust protection circuits so I only ever buy flashlights with built-in protection. I suppose if I really needed a protected super-high-capacity cell I would buy an AW.
Edit: I should mention that I wouldn't expect a flaming TF to outlive an AW or Panasonic NCR - capacity may be high and reliability may be OK, but they are still cheap cells and some corners must have been cut. For the price, though, I don't see a problem in replacing them when they do eventually crap out.
As for the grey Trustfires, they're so cheap that even if you get a DOA or two per bunch of cells they're still good value for money as long as you relegate them to medium-current applications; a good rule of thumb is not to use them in anything that discharges them at more than 1C.
The blue ones cost about the same as the "flaming" ones, though, so I don't really see any reason to buy more - I only have mine because the others weren't available back when I ordered them.
All this said, buying any sort of battery from eBay sellers in China or Hong Kong is not wise. Online stores (even cheap ones like DX) have a reputation to maintain and so make at least an attempt at weeding out the obvious fakes, while eBay dealers just have to open a new account every now and then, so if they can sell you crap they probably will. I've seen pictures of dismantled cheap eBay cells, and some were actually empty by half or more of their volume.
Same thing goes for flash memory, by the way; cheap SD cards and thumbdrives are okay to buy from DX, but eBay is anathema.
Ultrafire is a known dodgy brand. They have some half-decent flashlights, but the batteries are junk. I can say this with some experience, as I used Ultrafire 18650s to recell a pocketPC's battery pack and it died a few months afterwards after very little use. 16340s also seem to die fairly quickly.
On the other hand, Trustfire cells from DX are fairly good; the "flaming" protected ones sold in the 2x pack have actually been tested and proved surprisingly capable - in fact, they sometimes exceed their rated capacity. Two of them are now in the aforementioned battery pack which still works perfectly after months and a number of full cycles. Another one seems to have no problems whatsoever powering my SC600 on turbo (3A) after I removed its protection circuit.
There are varying reports on the grey and blue ones, but I've had no problems with them - a blue Trustfire has powered my XP-G L-Mini for 2 years now and was still capable of running my SC600 on Turbo when I tried it yesterday (before giving it the "flaming" one), and I used greys for other things with no problems.
I can buy three "flaming" Trustfires for each AW (and this is before shipping expenses); more, actually, if I buy three 2-packs and get the bulk discount. As far as I'm concerned, this makes them clear winners in my book. I'd only buy a premium cell if I absolutely needed super-high capacity, as there's no such thing as a cheap 3Ah cell, from Trustfire or any other brand - and even then I'd go straight for the original manufacturer and buy Panasonic NCR cells instead. Note that OEM cells are always unprotected, but I don't trust protection circuits so I only ever buy flashlights with built-in protection. I suppose if I really needed a protected super-high-capacity cell I would buy an AW.
Edit: I should mention that I wouldn't expect a flaming TF to outlive an AW or Panasonic NCR - capacity may be high and reliability may be OK, but they are still cheap cells and some corners must have been cut. For the price, though, I don't see a problem in replacing them when they do eventually crap out.
As for the grey Trustfires, they're so cheap that even if you get a DOA or two per bunch of cells they're still good value for money as long as you relegate them to medium-current applications; a good rule of thumb is not to use them in anything that discharges them at more than 1C.
The blue ones cost about the same as the "flaming" ones, though, so I don't really see any reason to buy more - I only have mine because the others weren't available back when I ordered them.
All this said, buying any sort of battery from eBay sellers in China or Hong Kong is not wise. Online stores (even cheap ones like DX) have a reputation to maintain and so make at least an attempt at weeding out the obvious fakes, while eBay dealers just have to open a new account every now and then, so if they can sell you crap they probably will. I've seen pictures of dismantled cheap eBay cells, and some were actually empty by half or more of their volume.
Same thing goes for flash memory, by the way; cheap SD cards and thumbdrives are okay to buy from DX, but eBay is anathema.
Last edited:
Black Rose
Flashlight Enthusiast
That WAS the case with the original batches of those cells.
It seems with the most recent batches, the batteries have changed and are not as good as they used to be.
There is a thread on the DX forums about the change.
HKJ
Flashaholic
I have done a newer review of them, where the capacity was considerable lower, it looks like it is the TrustFire Flame 3000 mAh that are the good ones now (But they are NOT 3000 mAh).
I have posted reviews here or you can find the reviews on my website.
spc smith
Enlightened
Really?? ivee heard double takes on this. I just called lighthound, and they said as of six months ago they have not had one complaint of the ultrafire 16340, 18650 batteries from customers buying them. However lighthound mentioned to me that an ealier batch was found to be fauly in performance but that the newer batch they have had no complaints of till now.
spc smith
Enlightened
till now as of no mistakes in performance. the newer batch seems to be more promising is what lighthound assured me of.
moderator007
Enlightened
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2010
- Messages
- 990
Hi HKJ,
From your website the trustfire flames has the DX sku on the box. I have never received any from DX in a box. But its been awhile since a purchased any. Did you purchase both sets of batteries from DX 2400mah and 3000mah. You tested a lower capacity with the new 2400mah trustfire's. Just making sure there from the same source as the older ones I have tested were better.
HKJ
Flashaholic
Today DX is using there boxes for all ther LiIon batteries.
You can see in my "info box" where I got the batteries from, the 2400 was from DX, the 3000 where from Manafont. Last year I also got a good capacity from the 2400 batteries.
Fallingwater
Flashlight Enthusiast
Duly noted. Thanks, I'll buy "3000 mAh" ones if I happen to need more.
I wonder if they'll get good batches of the 2.4Ah ones again.
Just bought some UltraFire 18650's from BatteryJunction - They were a little to thick in my RRT-3 XML and scraped the cover off, exposing the Positive lead to the protection circuit. Decided to convert them to unprotected and not risk shorting the batteries, and after removing the UltraFire label, found Samsung batteries in all of them -- However, they were Samsung ICR18650-26F -- 2600 mAh batteries, not 3000 as advertised. Sent BatteryJunction an email about it, will avoid UltraFires in the future, these appear genuine and not "fake".
45/70
Flashlight Enthusiast
It would be amusing if UltraFire had some old 18650 cells laying around that weren't moving too well, and decided to sell them to TrustFire at a discount. TrustFire would of course, then wrap the cells with their own label.
After a couple years, these cells may still not be moving well and TrustFire may decide to sell the cells back to UltraFire. UltraFire in turn, would then wrap one of their own labels over the TrustFire label, with maybe an increase in labeled capacity, such as "4500mAh" (this apparently helps increase sales). With 4 layers of labels now on the cells, maybe they could call them 19650 cells?
Dave
After a couple years, these cells may still not be moving well and TrustFire may decide to sell the cells back to UltraFire. UltraFire in turn, would then wrap one of their own labels over the TrustFire label, with maybe an increase in labeled capacity, such as "4500mAh" (this apparently helps increase sales). With 4 layers of labels now on the cells, maybe they could call them 19650 cells?
Dave
David Sims
Newly Enlightened
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2012
- Messages
- 16
I have found an exceptional Ultrafire battery. I have an Ultrafire 18650 cell that runs my Romisen RC-T601 (XML T6 LED) flashlight on medium setting (initially about 700 lumens) for about 6h30m (4.23V to 3.15V), suggesting it has a capacity around 5000 mAh. By comparison, using the same flashlight and the same medium setting with a 3100 mAh AW 18650 cell keeps the light going for only 4 hours (4.23V to 2.73V). Most of the Ultrafire batteries I've bought are inferior. I don't know what makes this special one so excellent.
I marked it with a "G" to keep track of it.
I marked it with a "G" to keep track of it.
Last edited:
HKJ
Flashaholic
Probably a high internal resistance, i.e. the light is running at lower brightness and less current consumption.
bshanahan14rulz
Flashlight Enthusiast
http://laserpointerforums.com/f67/fake-ultrafire-18650s-72833.html
Never seen one of those stuffed into an 18650... I'll repost here if OP ever replies back with his consent.
Never seen one of those stuffed into an 18650... I'll repost here if OP ever replies back with his consent.
another interesting variation.
that guy obviously was extremely lucky. not hard to imagine what could have happened had he opened a real low quality 18650 cell that way.
RIX TUX
Enlightened
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2011
- Messages
- 451
MAYBE....... ITS NOT ULTRAFIRE THAT HAS ALL THESE PROBLEMS BUT SOMEONE COPYING ULTRAFIRE BATTERIES, HOW DO YOU KNOW IF THE BAD ONES ARE REALLY ULTRAFIRE???
Your point is valid, however since we can not discern the real and the proposed fake ones it doesn't really make a difference.
I definitely wouldn't buy either.
tandem
Enlightened
As there are even counterfeit AW sells out there on the market, knowing your seller is more important than ever. I trust AW and I trust AW's legitimate resellers so I buy those cells only from those sources. If I bought Redilast or other makers known to use the Panasonic cells, I'd only buy direct or from reputable sources.
That means no Deal Extreme, no Alibaba, no EBay, no other unknown internet resellers.
I won't buy Ultrafires and doubt fake Ultrafires are behind problems documented years ago with these cells, but certainly *today* there could be bad copies of bad cells out there. Do two bads make a good? Nope.
Counterfeit copies of cells that are less trustworthy to begin with to me sounds like an even more compelling reason to pay a few more dollars for cell products that have a better history and more accountability built in.
That means no Deal Extreme, no Alibaba, no EBay, no other unknown internet resellers.
I won't buy Ultrafires and doubt fake Ultrafires are behind problems documented years ago with these cells, but certainly *today* there could be bad copies of bad cells out there. Do two bads make a good? Nope.
Counterfeit copies of cells that are less trustworthy to begin with to me sounds like an even more compelling reason to pay a few more dollars for cell products that have a better history and more accountability built in.
