First wave Sundrop head, 2x123 Ti pack, 17670?

[PoliceScannerMan]

Please tell me a 17670 will work with my Sundrop head....

 

[McGizmo]

The typical Vf's of these Nichias are high enough that you should be OK with the Li-Ion battery. If you have a light meter, I would suggest you confirm that the SunDrop is not significantly brighter. As to the fit of the battery in the 2x123 pack, you tell me?!?! :shrug:

 

[PoliceScannerMan]

No light meter, but I'll let you know if it fits! :wave:

 

[AvroArrow]

Don,

Do you have the measurement of the inner diameter of the 2x123 Ti clicky tube? That would probably give those of us interested in using 17670 cells a rough idea. My fattest AW Protected 17670 cell (out of 3) has a diameter of 0.670" ~ 17.02mm. As long as your Ti 2x123 tube's inner diameter is a tad more than that and is uniform throughout the length of the tube (unlike some 2x123 E-series Surefire tubes that narrow down at one end of the tube) then the cells should fit.

 

[McGizmo]

Don,

....... As long as your Ti 2x123 tube's inner diameter is a tad more than that and is uniform throughout the length of the tube ...........then the cells should fit.

Well therein lies the rub. I have no means of measuring the full bore of all of these tubes. The bore diameter is specified as .675" +/- .005 so it sounds like a close but no cigar issue here, unfortunately. The O-ring groove for the pak to head seal has a .750" root diameter. I would think to safely and assuredly accommodate the 17650 batteries if they are .670" in diameter, it would be wise to have a target bore of .700" This would leave the wall thickness at the weak joint of the O-ring groove at .025" which is likely OK with the titanium but I prefer more beef there as it now stands. :shrug:

 

[AvroArrow]

Wow... I didn't realize it was going to be that tight. I don't know what the margin of error is for my caliper so like you said it looks like a case of "close, but no cigar". Mind you that was my fattest cell, the other two I have are a tiny bit slimmer so they may fit, but it's definitely a case of YMMV depending on the individual cell. And I agree, the more meat on the tube the better, titanium or not. Thanks for the info!

 

[McGizmo]

I don't recall any fit problems with the 1.5 or 17500 Aleph tube which I believe had the same bore spec so some of these may well work. Then again, the 17500 pak was a real mistake in terms of a few vocal CPF members implying a great demand which never was witnessed once the paks were made available.

I have held back from any designs specific to Li-Ion since the last ill fated attempt with the HD45 which was originally intended to host both CR123 and potentially 18650's. IMHO, a good tight design needs to be rather specific to battery diameter and not a potentially sloppy fit that fits all.

I would like to design a light based on Li-Ion but I would want it to be based on a Li-Ion battery and charger which enjoyed domestic accessibility, after market availability and domestic qualification on safety standards and approval. In other words something much more mainstream than what I am aware of presently. It could also be the case tha a light designed for such a cell might not be viable with other batteries. :shrug: In the mean time, if some of the Li-Ions or other chemistry cells you guys use happen to work in the lights cool. If not, bummer.

The E-series was based on the CR123 and with the premise of "smaller, better, brighter" there was no extra meat left in its design. If you move up to the "classic" size and scale with the larger diameter thread features, you have some room to play with.

 

[precisionworks]

I would like to design a light based on Li-Ion

IMO, there are two broad classes of lights:

First are those that use 1x123 or 2x123, where the voltage & current draw match well with the 123 discharge curve. With most of today's emitters, especially the XR-E Q5, there isn't a need for anything but a primary - based solely on voltage & available amp hours.

Second are the lumen-killer lights, typified by running a single SSC P7 or multiple Crees (a la Milky & others). To get a small light with huge output, nothing available matches the ampacity of the Li-Ion (Li-Poly isn't mentioned here as we're primarily talking about cylindrical cells, not specially shaped flat packs). The mega-lights that use Li-Ion will run well on nothing else.

I know that quite a few members prefer to use rechargeable cells for economy & environmental reasons. A light designed around a Li-Ion source would seem to have limited appeal unless it had really special characteristics, like very high output using a number of 083 pills - then I'd be interested:thumbsup:

 

[starfiretoo]

Little off topic but after reading this thought came to mind. While in Honolulu shops selling Surefire are selling their SF batteries for about $2.00. In Kauai zero. Only expensive camera batteries at Longs Drug, Walmart, Home Depot...Main reason why i'm using rechargables.

McGizmo are you in the same boat as us and have to order out to get CR123's?

 

[McGizmo]

....
McGizmo are you in the same boat as us and have to order out to get CR123's?

I typically order multiple boxes of SFCR123 on line and have them shipped. I don't use my Beasts or any other lights that are battery eaters and am quite satisfied with the price and mileage I get from the CR123 battery. I also have and use some of the new domestic Battery Station CR123's as well as some CR2's from them.

 

[PoliceScannerMan]

I don't use my Beasts

As in plural!?! Shut.... Up.... :devil:

 

[climberkid]

well i have to say, he has worked hard. he probably deserves MORE THAN ONE!!!! are you nuts!? sorry, i will calm myself.

P.S. i know sometimes im here just for comments, but even though i cant afford any of your lights McGizmo, i have learned a lot from you and continue to do research on what you are talking about and how you are improving things. maybe someday huh?

 

[starfiretoo]

...And i never saw a Beast before:nana:

 

[Kiessling]

IMHO, a good tight design needs to be rather specific to battery diameter and not a potentially sloppy fit that fits all.

Yes. Let's forget the Li-Ion and Eneloop stuff and what not else ... and enjoy the CR123, the Goddess of batteries

 

[iconoclast]

I would like to design a light based on Li-Ion but I would want it to be based on a Li-Ion battery and charger which enjoyed domestic accessibility, after market availability and domestic qualification on safety standards and approval. In other words something much more mainstream than what I am aware of presently. It could also be the case tha a light designed for such a cell might not be viable with other batteries. :shrug: In the mean time, if some of the Li-Ions or other chemistry cells you guys use happen to work in the lights cool. If not, bummer.

well, since you mention it...

radio shack seems plausibly mainstream enough to qualify, and they have rechargable Li-ion batteries
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2353696

I don't know the exact diameter of that battery, but their primary lithium has a diameter of 0.67"
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?techSpecs=techSpecs&productId=2151273&tab=techSpecs

Since we're talking 2x123 sizes anyway, you would probably plan for the double pack
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2357191

I'm sure a bore of around 0.71 would just happen to fit a couple of these batteries without too much extra space.
(ok, so I haven't found a domestic example of an 18650 yet, this was as close as I could get. but I'll be sure to let you know if I find one. )

fwiw, these are also marked as
"In store:

Available at most stores"

 

[AndyTiedye]

Presumably a pair of LiFePO4's would make it happy, even if the 17670 won't fit.

 

[nakahoshi]

Presumably a pair of LiFePO4's would make it happy, even if the 17670 won't fit.

6V?

I dont think so. The LE can only handle one cell. Your sundrop might become a smokedrop with 2 cells. Perhaps someone who owns one might know a bit better then me.

-Bobby

 

[knifebright]

Since my very first li-ion charger, i've used them as a secondary option but never for times when i needed my flashlight (ie camping/hiking ect). For those not around then, and i wish i could remember whom made it, it was a 2 each cell holder (14500 aka AA size) radio shack series battery holder, epoxied to an old skool cell phone battery charger. Remember when batteries had to be removed from the phone to charge (i wish i could remember whom made these first contraptions as they were the start of something cool!

these days I use primary cr123 surefire cells 90% of the time but i do play around with Li-ion cells when i'm, uhm ahh playing around with lights and don't want to burn through cells.

Ok lets move past the stone age.

One of the lights I have is a Cx2 1 off Clicky with a DBx2 150/660 driver. It runs off 2x primary CR123. out of the 1/2 dozen or so 17670 i have, none fit, partially due to tollerances, partially due to the reverse suction/pressure from the plunger effect of trying to put the cells in.
HOWEVER, i have two i can use. I want to make sure that the following notes are simply what i found to work and do not by any means recomend doing this as done wrong can be dangerous if one is not careful and in tune to what there doing.


Ok so the 17670 cells are black shrink wrapped AW cells, with button tops (the most up to date ones)
-cell sticker removed
-the black shrink wrap is rather thick.
-with a little wet/dry sand paper and a twisting motion, i was able to remove the very little material in the way and have a few cells to use in my Cx2 pack.

sure this sounds barbaric but i come from a time of magnets to make contact, scotch tape to isolate ect.

and for the love of god make sure there are no dead shorts paths created.

Jimmy

 

[iconoclast]

Aside from the length my black button-top 17670 fits into the ti 1x123 McClicky pak, so I have hopes that it'll work fine in the 2x123 pak. No need for messing with the shrinkwrap or the sticker. Which is good, since I didn't relish the idea of replacing the nice shrinkwrap and label with an ugly kapton taping job. The 18650 doesn't even come close. (Unfortunate but not unexpected.)

Now just to wait and see if that's truely representitive of the 2x123 pack.

 

[AndyTiedye]

6V?

I dont think so. The LE can only handle one cell. Your sundrop might become a smokedrop with 2 cells. Perhaps someone who owns one might know a bit better then me.

-Bobby

Right, I was thinking of the XP head.