Flashlight used in a crime. (2nd amendment related)

[Glass]

Last week I investigated the burglary of a vacation residence, in which the victim had almost $4000 worth of his property stolen.

The burglar used a screwdriver to access the victim's shed, then retrieved a splitting maul, which he used to bash open the back door of the residence. The burglar then proceeded to literally go through every cabinet and drawer in the victim's home and RV, which was parked in the garage.

The victim told me the power had been turned off to the residence. So, guess what I found while processing evidence? A minimag style bulb, which had burned out, and the burglar changed during the commission of the crime.

Now, I'll be honest about why I'm posting this bit of info. I am a police officer, who is also a passionate supporter of individual gun rights. I take exception, whenever someone tries to blame an inanimate object for the actions of people.

Should we ban flashlights since I have proof one was used in the commission of a serious crime (Burg I is an A Felony here in Oregon)? How about splitting mauls? How about the vehicle the burglar drove to and from the crime?

HR1022, the so called "Law Enforcement Protection Act" is absolute foolishness. It makes it a serious PITA for LEOs to get gear, since we have to get a letterhead to buy full capacity magazines, but even more importantly, it takes away good honest people's ability to protect themselves from evil. I have been to calls where a decent person held a POS at gunpoint, until we got there and arrested the scumbag. I love those calls!

Believe it or not, I'm never that worried about getting shot, but I'm routinely scared sh**less by some idiot who nearly hits me with their car, while I'm doing a traffic stop. Two weeks ago, my partner was hit by some person who wasn't paying attention. Luckily he wasn't hurt (the speed was low) but it scared him none the less.

From the CDC, Death Rates in the US, 2004:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr54/nvsr54_19.pdf

Total Deaths- 2,398,343

Cardiovascular Disease-862,800
Motor Vehicle Related Deaths- 43,947
Drug Induced Deaths- 28,457
Alcohol Related Deaths- 20,398
Accidental Poisoning- 19,250
Falls- 18,535
Medical Complications- 2,889

Accidental Shootings- 661
Homicide w/ a firearm- 11,250
Homicide by other means- 5,360

Almost four times more people died because of car wrecks, than murders with a firearm. Do you honestly think the murder rate would fall that much if the bad guys had to use something besides a gun?

Yes, sometimes bad guys use guns to commit crimes, but there are already laws making this illegal. I, for one, believe the good people with guns vastly outweigh the bad guys with guns. But, if we outlaw certain types of guns, because we think they are scary, only the good people will abide by the law. This would leave the bad guys fully armed.

Don't believe me? Just ask the British and the Australians…

Thanks
Patrick

edited to fix a couple spelling errors I missed when I first posted.

 

[Led_Blind]

Nothing should be illegal, let everyone have everything they want. Those that do harm with these things are turned into fertaliser and glue.

Simple.

 

[Beamhead]

I couldn't agree more Glass. Very well put, in fact so well that I have nothing to add.

 

[CodeOfLight]

I want an UZI, full auto, by my bedside, please. I'm not kidding.

 

[goldenlight]

I want an UZI, full auto, by my bedside, please. I'm not kidding.

I don't need a full auto Uzi by my bedside. My Glock Model 19 (with the inherantly murderous 17 round magazine) and tritium night sights, is plenty of self protection for me.

And yes, I know how to use it.

 

[NAlamo]

Nothing should be illegal, let everyone have everything they want. Those that do harm with these things are turned into fertaliser and glue.

Simple.

A very refreshing view here , truly Libertarian . I salute you !

 

[FlashSpyJ]

Here the general opinion about guns are that they dont belong with any other than the cops and hunters. Thats not an oppinion I share though... I would love to have a Glock 17 and or a shotgun ready to go beside my night stand!

But untill the laws in this country changes, my soft air gun will have to due....

It sounds wrong saying that Im some what jealous of you who are allowed to own guns. But im kinda are...

The laws here about the things you can and cant do here when and if a burglar breaks in is not so clear. In worst case the burglar can charge you for hitting him or if he hurt himself while robbing and or threatens you!

Even worse if you hold him at gunpoint!

This su**s in my opinion!

 

[LITEmania]

A snake makes the poison with water

A milk cow makes the milk with the same water

 

[270winchester]

glass:

the homocide rate also includes suicide and self-defense shootings I believe. The actually murder rate is much lower than the standard statistics suggests.

 

[Bjorn Keizers]

Same thing here in the Netherlands, Flash.

The laws can be very strange. We're quite a liberal country -- abortion, drug use, prostitution... all that is legal. But guns? Nooooooo.

Here only the police and criminals carry guns. And generally the criminals have the bigger ones. There *are* ways to own a gun, but you have to be a member of a shooting club for X years, your records have to be clean, and even then you can only keep your gun at home or at the club, in a locked safe. You're not allowed to carry it outside, except when travelling to and from the shooting club.

Practical example: If you drive to the club and you get carjacked, you're not allowed to shoot the person. (not that you can carry it loaded on your person anyway... has to be in the trunk and away from ammo) Same thing with burglary or robbery. There have been cases where jewelry store owners were prosecuted for shooting armed robbers!!

Personally I'm all for guns. Like many have said before, guns are the great equalizer. Now I have no way to defend myself if someone comes in with a knife or gun.... the criminal is *guaranteed* to have an unarmed victim. If we all had guns... it'd make them think twice.

 

[270winchester]

very refreshing view of a Dutch person. most I have seen believe they will never be victims of criems and even then the police will take care of them.

Same thing here in the Netherlands, Flash.

The laws can be very strange. We're quite a liberal country -- abortion, drug use, prostitution... all that is legal. But guns? Nooooooo.

Here only the police and criminals carry guns. And generally the criminals have the bigger ones. There *are* ways to own a gun, but you have to be a member of a shooting club for X years, your records have to be clean, and even then you can only keep your gun at home or at the club, in a locked safe. You're not allowed to carry it outside, except when travelling to and from the shooting club.

Practical example: If you drive to the club and you get carjacked, you're not allowed to shoot the person. (not that you can carry it loaded on your person anyway... has to be in the trunk and away from ammo) Same thing with burglary or robbery. There have been cases where jewelry store owners were prosecuted for shooting armed robbers!!

Personally I'm all for guns. Like many have said before, guns are the great equalizer. Now I have no way to defend myself if someone comes in with a knife or gun.... the criminal is *guaranteed* to have an unarmed victim. If we all had guns... it'd make them think twice.

 

[WNG]

A few old favorites of mine:

"When guns are outlawed, only the outlaws will have guns."
"Make love, not war....but be prepared for both."
"A Democrat is simply a Republican who hasn't been mugged yet."

The one thing I've learned from all my years, is that there are a LOT of stupid people in this world. A sad byproduct of civilization. And they are in all walks of life, from the gun toting ones to the ones drafting the laws.
Let's face it, these people shouldn't be empowered in any way. They repeatedly show they're a liability to themselves and society.
I'm all for gun ownership, but do you really want them in the hands of such folks? In order to be politically correct, institutions cater to the lowest common denominator. This is so sad.
And the stupid population keeps rising compared to the dwindling educated citizenry.

 

[3rd_shift]

Is there any data on knives?
Those can be gotten anywhere with great ease, and still with no amendment protections involved for them
Knives were my worst fear because of this, when I used to work security.

I also talked with security coworkers who used to work in prisons as prison guards.
They confirmed that anyone with the right twisted mind, can indeed come up with a deadly weapon of some kind, or another, even while behind bars. :huh2:
It's happened plenty of times.

 

[leduk]

Our homicide rates are on the way down (link) . Yearly, about the same number as get "accidentally shot" in the US. Thanks for asking.

Any Australians care to comment?

Cheers

 

[powernoodle]

Some people despise freedom. I could write a treatise on it, but I'd get banned.

Gun ownership not only symbolizes a society's freedom, it insures that the society's other freedoms will not be stolen. Ergo, freedom hater hate guns.

The Axis of Evil (according to some): guns, knives and flashlights.

cheers

 

[FiftyCalAl]

excellent viewpoints!

 

[cslinger]

Glass, Glass, Glass....you and your silly common sense. Our society will not stand for any of that kind of thinking. Geez next you will be trying to tell us that the criminal in question should actually be accountable for his or her actions.........I mean get a clue man.

Great post and one that carries a lot of weight coming from a peace officer. Take care and be safe.

 

[Mike Painter]

The first thing citizens did in America when there was sufficent law was to get the guns off the street. The gun toting cowboy of "the old west" was something that lasted less than 40 years.
They knew what happened when people carried guns on an everyday basis and they also knew that it was a lot harder to kill with a light or a knife.
The vast majority of police cheifs in the nation are against people carrying guns. I was when I was a cop and more than one cop in the privacy of a patrol car told me the same thing.
It has only been in the last few years that *ANYTHING* has been written to support the second amendment by separating a single sentence into two. When it was written, teh gun owned by an average farmer was as good as or better than that possessed (not owned) by a soldier, so the idea that a militia could be a valid fighting force was valid. Those days are gone.
Most of the world, except for the people our government calls the enemy don't understand why guns are so important in the USA.

 

[270winchester]

in the last decade since the concealed carry laws became "shall issue" in over 30 states, the country saw a 39% decrease in violent crime, while the "almost non-issue" state of California saw its violent crime rate remains high. The laws of "shall issue" in these 30+ states were voted in by the individual state legislatures as wells in state elections. The stereotype of "gun-toting cowboy" cannot be further from the realities of who choose to carry. I know of three women in Washington state who carry on a daily basis to protect themselves from muggers and rapists. Are their lives and digninity not worth protecting, Mike?

my girlfriend works in a high-crime area with lots of mugging and rapes(most done with the help of knives, screw-drivers, etc), BTW she is a lot more liberal than I am, she works with many inner city kids and help them learn to use the libraries effectively. She thinks that the best way to help the people of California is to help the kids to get proper education, being a History Major from Berkeley. yet she has three co-workers who have been mugged and one beaten savagely in the last year alone. She, not wanting to be raped and mugged, wanted to know about CCW licenses, but the local police chief told her to get a whistle and a good cell phone. oh yeah, the "if you are not in my posse you don't get a CCW" attitude pf the police chiefs is really working here in CA.

I don't want to take lives of other humans, I just don't like the idea that women don't have an equalizer in preventing themselves from being victims. I am an old-style liberal in that sense, I trust women with weapons as much as men with proper training, and I (naively) like the females in my life unmugged and not raped, thank you very much, but even that's too much to ask for.

 

[BB]

No, guns were banned for a very specific reason... For example in California:

Capital March (PBS):

It began shortly after the shooting of Denzil Dowell. Easy Bay legislator Don Mulford introduced a bill to repeal the law that permitted citizens to carry loaded weapons in public places so long as the weapons were openly displayed [see link to California Penal Code, Sections 12031 and 171.c]. What the Mulford law sought to achieve was the elimination of the Black Panther Police Patrols, and it had been tagged "the Panther Bill" by the media.

The Police Patrols had become an integral part of BPP community policy. Members of the BPP would listen to police calls on a short wave radio, rush to the scene of the arrest with law books in hand and inform the person being arrested of their constitutional rights. BPP members also happened to carry loaded weapons, which were publicly displayed, but were careful to stand no closer than ten feet from the arrest so as not to interfere with the arrest.

Passage of the Mulford Bill would essentially end the Panther Police Patrols, so the BPP sent a group to Sacramento, California on May 2nd, 1967 to protest. The group carried loaded rifles and shotguns, publicly displayed and entered the State Capitol building to read aloud Executive Mandate Number 1, which was in opposition to the Mulford Bill. They tried to enter the Assembly Chamber but were forced out of this public place where they then read Executive Mandate Number 1 out on the lawn.

The legislature responded by passing the bill, thus creating the Mulford Act, which was signed into law by Governor Ronald Reagan. This step by the Black Panther Party was enough to put them into national prominence and was a stimulus for growth of the party within the young Black population.

And creating gun control laws to be used against minorities is not new:

Reprints of NY Times articles on New York's gun rights/laws:

NY Times Editorial from January, 27, 1905

Among the best british traditions perpetuated and cherished in America is that of using natures weapons in the act of self-defense. That it is sincerely cherished is shown in the recent introduction at Albany of a bill by Assemblyman Tompkins to amend the Penal Code of this State relative to the carrying of loaded firearms concealed about the person. The amending section reads as follows:

Sec. 411-A Any person other than a peace officer who shall in any public street, highway or place in any city in this State having a population of upward of 100,000 persons by the last State census have or carry concealed upon his person any loaded pistol, revolver, or other firearm, without thereto fore, in the manner now provided by law, having been authorized to carry the same, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.

Such a measure would prove corrective and salutary in a city filled with immigrants and evil communications, floating from the shores of Italy and Austria-Hungary. New York police reports frequently testify to the fact that the Italian and other south Continental gentry here are acquainted with the pocket pistol, and while drunk or merrymaking will use it quite as handily as the stiletto, and with more deadly effect. It is hoped that this treacherous and distinctly outlandish mode of settling disputes may not spread to corrupt the native good manners of the community. The case of a Columbia student who flourished and fired a pistol at his persecutors instead of using his "bare fist", as his presumably British-American descent would prescribe, is fresh in the public memory. The act now proposed and championed by Mr. Tompkins will diminish the number of homicides.
=========================================================
New York Times,
March 15, 1905
Special to to The New York Times.

Albany. March 14.- The Armstrong bill prohibiting foreigners from carrying firearms under any circumstances unless specially licensed by local authorities passed the Assembly to-day. Arms of any description may not be sold to minors under sixteen years of age, according to bill's provisions.

Gun Control Laws are all about politicians controlling the population--and it first started with controlling "minorities".

-Bill