Future of Alkalines..??

[Robocop]

I was just now going through some of my household lights checking them for battery life. I keep a few lanterns ready for this time of year when storms often have me without power at times. I had 3 lanterns with 1 of them using lithium AA cells, the 2nd one with eneloops and the 3rd using alkalines. Well as you can guess the one with alkalines is destroyed from leaking cells and if I remember correct it was stored with cells for maybe 5 months at best.

I realized that with todays better rechargeables and Lithium batteries I hardly ever use alkalines anymore. It seems that many of my lights do better with plain old rechargeables anyway due to better runtime and much better cells from the old days. (eneloops, hybrids)

Is it possible to say that in a few years alkalines will be obsolete? I have had many lights destroyed from leaking alkalines and cant remember any problems from other chemistry cells. Does anyone feel that alkalines will serve no purpose in future years? What does anyone use alkalines for anymore as I am curious if any members still depend on plain old alkaline cells.

 

[shadowjk]

People still buy Heavy Duty batteries, I don't think alkalines are going away, unfortunately.

 

[Robocop]

Now that I think of it I am sure alkalines are surely used by many other people however for my light hobby I really cant remember the last time I used any at all. I was searching around a little before posting this question and looked at run time charts for several lights. It seemed that Lithium cells and rechargeable cells always beat out the alkalines....and do not have leakage problems.

I remember way back when that rechargeable cells were crap and did not hold a charge very long and were always weaker to start out than a new alkaline. With todays better batteries it is easy to find eneloops or other hybrid cells that not only hold a charge much longer but also reach close to 1.5V on a full charge. I just checked some of my Rayovac Hybrids and all are about 1.41V and have been stored for about a month with out charging. It just seems to me that for lighting purposes alkalines may be phased out in future years.

 

[Lynx_Arc]

most people I know still use alkalines primarily. They do not want to deal with
buying a charger and rechargable batteries. most do not know the new LSD batteries work well either. For many devices lithium batteries are unreasonably expensive and even LSD batteries are silly for remotes when the batteries last years and having to reset programming is not fun. If they can either get the price of lithiums down, or LSD to discharge a lot slower alkalines will have to fight for their survival. Another thing that could mean their end is mandatory recycling laws.

 

[shadowjk]

Alkalines haven't died in places with mandatory recycling either.

 

[jzmtl]

At local store alkaline aa is $11 for 48, lithium is $12 for two, what do you think people will pick up? It'll never die unless price of lithium comes down to as low as alkaline, but I doubt that'll ever happen.

 

[Flash_Gordon]

For now, alkalines are the most economical and best solution for most people in most uses. Also remember, that in an extended emergency, alkalines will be ready to go. Very few people have a 4-7 day supply of freshly charged cells. I know I don't. Best to keep a supply of primary cells for every light you want to count on in an emergency.

Mark

 

[Robocop]

I know alkalines are much cheaper than lithium however Ni-Mh rechargeables are improving more each year and are also very cheap. With many rechargeables now able to hold their charge much longer it seems as if all the advancements are going towards rechargeables and the alkalines seem to never get much attention towards advancing.

If rechargeables continue to improve and alkalines stay the same does it not seem possible that alkalines would become obsolete? I have many alkalines and try to find ways to use them up so I do support the use of alkalines but again always find other cells work better for most of my needs.

 

[dulridge]

I only use alkalines in two devices - my work pager and work supplies them. Not that anyone uses the pagers any more when they can call the mobile instead. This drives comms nuts as the phone bills are significant - i.e. £40K/month. When I answer the pager, i have to produce a receipt before call expenses are refunded. Have you ever seen a phone that prints receipts?

The other device is a Fenix E0 - and the only reason it uses alkalines is that I bought a pack of 12 of them 2 years ago. I still have 10 of them as the E0 doesn't exactly kill cells. I've had it for about 17 months and I'm only on the second cell.

Everything else uses rechargeables - even the remotes since the advent of LSD cells. I do have a few primary CR123 cells in the car for the car lights but otherwise I don't do primary cells.

Anyone in the UK want 10 primary AAA cells?

 

[Fallingwater]

I opened a thread some time ago where I asked if it wasn't time for a global shift to lithium cells (too lazy to search for it )
It was pointed to me that there isn't enough lithium on the planet to make enough lithium cells to satisfy the huge demand.

 

[dulridge]

I opened a thread some time ago where I asked if it wasn't time for a global shift to lithium cells (too lazy to search for it )
It was pointed to me that there isn't enough lithium on the planet to make enough lithium cells to satisfy the huge demand.

There sure is, it is one of the commonest elements in the universe, let alone on earth - just about all rocks contain some. As to feasibly extractable (i.e., at a price anyone is prepared to pay) there may be limited supplies but it really isn't that rare.

 

[Mr Happy]

Apparently there really are reports of a potential limit to the supply of lithium:
http://www.google.com/search?q=world+supply+of+lithium

 

[dulridge]

Apparently there really are reports of a potential limit to the supply of lithium:
http://www.google.com/search?q=world+supply+of+lithium

Interesting, thanks. However, the real issue there is that those deposits are cheap and easy to extract. There is plenty of it on earth, just neither easy or cheap to extract at present. If the demand is there, someone will find a way to extract it affordably. The waste from silicon chip manufacturing will have considerably enhanced levels of lithium, among other things.

 

[Robocop]

Well as far as lithium goes I really do not believe lithium cells will ever be able to compete with alkalines as far as cost is concerned. I do believe that with todays eneloops and hybrids that rechargeables are a threat to alkalines and again it sure seems that alkalines are simply done advancing. It appears that makers are focusing more on rechargeable cells and as such the alkalines are never advancing.

I have hundreds of alkalines laying around and do try to use them. I find they hold a charge well and for the most part do what I need them to do however many of them have leaked so I try to never store any alkaline in a light. Even with so many alkalines available here I often find myself reaching for that rechargeable eneloop or hybrid cell so in a way for me I guess alkalines are fading away fast.

 

[SilverFox]

Hello Robocop,

We may be able to get a little bit of a historical perspective on this by examining how long it took to get the mainstream of American people to move from Carbon Zinc to Alkaline...

I think this will be a generational change. i use rechargeable batteries. I have taught my children about rechargeable batteries, and they use a mix of primary and rechargeable cells. I am not working on the grandchildren. It is my hope that the great grandchildren will not require any instruction and that they will simply follow the lead of their parents.

So, what is that, four generations...?

Tom

 

[Darkpower]

I have a dozen clocks that each take a 'AA' and the alkalines last 2 to 3 years. A NiMh even if it were a LSD type would not survive 2 years and a lithium L91 would simply be overkill. A good akaline Duracell in bulk costs like 30 to 40 cents and a NiMh like an eneloop would cost like $1.60 and a lithium would run about $2.00.

I also had very few leakers. Mainly Rayovacs and some generic brand I got at the wholesale club. Stick to Duracells and they will last on the shelf in a climate controlled environment for 7 years easily.

I have a maglite with 3 D cell duracell batteries that have sat in there for at least 7 years now, the expiration date on the battery was 2006, and the cells are still strong, and never leaked. The batteries have out lasted the filament technology, and I dropped in the MagLED uprgrade last year.

 

[ltiu]

I have a dozen clocks that each take a 'AA' and the alkalines last 2 to 3 years. A NiMh even if it were a LSD type would not survive 2 years and a lithium L91 would simply be overkill.

I got tired of replacing 2xAA in my 16 year old (read: old energy inefficient) Casio digital alarm clock (needed to change it once a year, night light became dim) that I put in 2x L91 and these have been running for 2.5 years and still going. Night light still blazes strong.

 

[ltiu]

Alkalines will be around for a very long time. The fact is you can still get Heavy Duty cells from a lot of places. For most application, these are sufficient. Heavy Duty needs to go away first before alkalines can go.

Heavy Duty D cells have a capacity rating of 8,000 mAh. This is 2.5x the capacity of AA sized alkalines.

So pretty good power capacity if space and weight is not a problem. It can also handle high current draws of 1,000 mAh with little voltage sag whereas regular AA alkaline voltage will sag a lot.

For $1 per pack of 2 (dollar stores), beats the price of alkalines.

 

[shadowjk]

My first reaction was "wtf?", but I missed the key point that you are comparing D size heavy duty against AA size alkaline

 

[ltiu]

My first reaction was "wtf?", but I missed the key point that you are comparing D size heavy duty against AA size alkaline

Yes, WTF!!!

Need to be clearer with the message.

I am talking about the fact that Heavy Duty batteries (less performance than alkalines) are still around and useful for certain apps that alkalines will be around forever and will never go away. Heavy Duty needs to go away first.