Raptor#
Newly Enlightened
Heya fellow flashaholics,
A while ago i was torn between buying the G&P R500 and the Ultrafire WF-500.
Maybe a few of you guys had - or still have the same problem, so i thought i'll let you know my thoughts about the subject.
First off: i ended up buying the WF-500.
I got it about a month ago from qualitychinagoods and use it together with the protected 18650's from AW and a WF-139 charger.
The beam is more on the floody side. Somewhat egg-shaped, but nothing you'd notice outdoors.
I'll just spill the beans already, i believe you're way better off with the WF-500 than with the R500.
Why?
1.) Battery reliability. You can use good, reliable batterys for the WF-500, AW's protected 18650's.
I have zero doubt that AW would take them back if there would be a problem with his cells. Have a problem with the G&P R500s battery pack (reading the R500 thread, it looks like alot of people had a problem with them!), and its bend over. You're on your own now.
2.) Battery flexibility. You might need more than 1 full battery charge sometimes. So what you'll do? Buy extra batterys. Now, when you'll buy a akku pack for the R500, you buy batterys that you can't use in any other flashlight (remember, someday you might want to replace your flashlight with a new one - being able to use the old batterys would be nice, wouldn't it?
But unless you dismantle the battery pack for the R500 (wich i would NEVER attempt to do. And honestly, if you're reading this thread because you're unsure wich of those 2 flashlights to buy, you're probably not somebody who should attempt to try it either. There are a few people who might be able to safely do this, Hotwire gurus, experienced modders and folks like Newbie. If you are not sure if you can do it or not, then you probably really really shouldn't. Personally i'd rather do something that feels a little bit safer to me, like playing russian roulette. In other words: Don't do this!!!), you can't use the pack of the R500 in any flashlight that i'm aware of.
Not so with the WF-500.
It uses seperate batterys, that you can use in any flashlight, as long as they'll fit.
Even if you dismantle the battery pack of the R500, and manage to seperate them, i'm not sure if you can charge them with a regular charger.
3.) The charger. You'll pay about the same price for both when you include the charger and batterys in the total price. But the G&P's charger can only charge the G&P R500. Buying the WF-500 and a DSD charger you can charge all of your 18650's and 3.7V CRC123's too. Buying the just a little bit more expensive WF-138 or 139 and using the (included for no extra charge from AW) battery spacers, you can charge even more of the other Li-Ion's.
In other words: You're way more flexible with the chargers you'd normally buy for the WF-500's 18650.
4.) Bulb replacements costs. From what i gather, theres one problem that both flashlights share. The bulb is way overdriven. Sometimes this leads to a insta-flash, meaning the bulb blows or burns out the moment you turn the flashlight on. So far, so bad. But: The replacement bulbs for the WF-500 cost $10, while the replacement bulbs for the R500 cost is $24.
=================================
Lets see how much they cost exactly.
G&P Scorpion R500: $84 at kaidomain and dealextreme, 80 at ebay from airshotshooting (link ), including shipping. Charger and batterys included.
Replacement bulb: $23 including shipping at ebay, (link $25 at lighthound.
Ultrafire WF-500: $32.38 at kaidomain and dealextreme, including shipping. (44.38 at Qualitychinagoods, but hey its the same flashlight so lets go with the cheapest offer.)
Charger:
DSD Charger: $6.61 at dealextreme, $7.23 at kaidomain, $9.36 at qualitychinagoods, $12 at lighthound.
WF-139: $12.31 at dealextreme, $12.82 at kaidomain, $15 from AW (including 2 mini-magnetic spacers of about 1mm, 2 bigger aluminum spacers, european adapter for free, just ask him. Don't know if the other dealers offer the same.), $16.03 from qualitychinagoods.
Batterys:
AW's Protected 18650's. $12 directly from AW. $13 From lighthound, if you wanna pick up some extras while you're already at it and wanna save on shipping.
Other protected 18650's. $ ???. Ultrafire's protected 18650 should fit, but there have been many reports of battery failures with the Ultrafires. So even thought theyre cheaper, i wouldn't recommend them. A few other protected 18650's didn't fit the WF-500, but im not sure wich one. Would be nice if somebody dropped me a PM with his experiences.
Please notice that i did NOT include shipping costs for lighthound and AW. Buying the WF-500 and 2 protected 18650's from AW costs you $4,50 shipping.
=================================
Complete costs:
G&P Scorpion from ebay (cheapest source): $80 including shipping, $19 bulb assembly ($5 Shipping, but buying both from the same supplier you should be able to save those extra costs for shipping).
This means $80 for the G&P R500 alone, and $99 - $104, depending on if you can save $5 on shipping or not.
Ultrafire WF-500. Hah, now thats the part where it gets a bit more complicated (Hey hey, stay here! i'm almost done! And please stop screaming, i've really gotta concentrate here. :lolsign: )
WF-500: $32.38 (from kaido/DX. Wouldn't buy from QCG, price difference is just too big.)
Batterys: 2x AW's protected 18650's: $24 from AW (+ $3.50 shipping) , $26 from lighthound. Lets keep it simple, and assume that those are the batterys that make the most sense for the WF-500.
So thats $59.88 for the WF-500 and AW's Protected 18650's.
Charger:
DSD: $6,61 at DX.
WF-500 + AW's Protected 18650's + DSD charger = $66.49 and we've got it all together.
WF-139: $12.31 at DX, $15 from AW (+ $1 shipping when you also buy 2 protected 18650's).
WF-500 + AW's Protected 18650's + WF-139 charger = $72.19 (DX) - $75.88 (AW) and again we've got it all together, with just a little bit more flexibility than with the DSD charger.
Replacement bulb: $10 from Qualitychinagoods.
This means $76,49 including extra bulb (DSD charger).
Or $82.19 - $85.88 including extra bulb (WF-139 charger from DX or AW).
Vs the already mentioned $99 - $104 for the G&P R500 with extra bulb.
=================================
To end my essay:
The only thing that could be seen as a advantage of the G&P R500 versus the WF-500 could be the slightly more spotty beam.
Somebody might mention the plug-in charger as a advantage, i don't think it is one. Why? Because you still have to "screw arround".. errrm, i mean, screw the flashlight open. IMHO this isn't really comparable to simple plug-in chargers, such as the Magcharger system, or the one Surefire has.
Theres not so much of a reason to keep a Li-Ion using flashlight in a charger allday anyway. The self-discharge isn't even anywhere near as fast as with the Ni-Cads used by the surefire rechargeables and the Magcharger.
The drawbacks of the R500 are higher inital cost, higher replacement cost, less realibility, unflexible charger and unflexible battery pack.
I don't mean to smack the R500, but in my eyes the WF-500 clearly is the better buy, and lets just say i thought a really long while about it.
Thanks for your time (and even more thanks for your opinion in case you'd let me know it), i hope this has helped some folks who have to make the same decision as i did.
Best regards,
Johannes
A while ago i was torn between buying the G&P R500 and the Ultrafire WF-500.
Maybe a few of you guys had - or still have the same problem, so i thought i'll let you know my thoughts about the subject.
First off: i ended up buying the WF-500.
I got it about a month ago from qualitychinagoods and use it together with the protected 18650's from AW and a WF-139 charger.
The beam is more on the floody side. Somewhat egg-shaped, but nothing you'd notice outdoors.
I'll just spill the beans already, i believe you're way better off with the WF-500 than with the R500.
Why?
1.) Battery reliability. You can use good, reliable batterys for the WF-500, AW's protected 18650's.
I have zero doubt that AW would take them back if there would be a problem with his cells. Have a problem with the G&P R500s battery pack (reading the R500 thread, it looks like alot of people had a problem with them!), and its bend over. You're on your own now.
2.) Battery flexibility. You might need more than 1 full battery charge sometimes. So what you'll do? Buy extra batterys. Now, when you'll buy a akku pack for the R500, you buy batterys that you can't use in any other flashlight (remember, someday you might want to replace your flashlight with a new one - being able to use the old batterys would be nice, wouldn't it?
But unless you dismantle the battery pack for the R500 (wich i would NEVER attempt to do. And honestly, if you're reading this thread because you're unsure wich of those 2 flashlights to buy, you're probably not somebody who should attempt to try it either. There are a few people who might be able to safely do this, Hotwire gurus, experienced modders and folks like Newbie. If you are not sure if you can do it or not, then you probably really really shouldn't. Personally i'd rather do something that feels a little bit safer to me, like playing russian roulette. In other words: Don't do this!!!), you can't use the pack of the R500 in any flashlight that i'm aware of.
Not so with the WF-500.
It uses seperate batterys, that you can use in any flashlight, as long as they'll fit.
Even if you dismantle the battery pack of the R500, and manage to seperate them, i'm not sure if you can charge them with a regular charger.
3.) The charger. You'll pay about the same price for both when you include the charger and batterys in the total price. But the G&P's charger can only charge the G&P R500. Buying the WF-500 and a DSD charger you can charge all of your 18650's and 3.7V CRC123's too. Buying the just a little bit more expensive WF-138 or 139 and using the (included for no extra charge from AW) battery spacers, you can charge even more of the other Li-Ion's.
In other words: You're way more flexible with the chargers you'd normally buy for the WF-500's 18650.
4.) Bulb replacements costs. From what i gather, theres one problem that both flashlights share. The bulb is way overdriven. Sometimes this leads to a insta-flash, meaning the bulb blows or burns out the moment you turn the flashlight on. So far, so bad. But: The replacement bulbs for the WF-500 cost $10, while the replacement bulbs for the R500 cost is $24.
=================================
Lets see how much they cost exactly.
G&P Scorpion R500: $84 at kaidomain and dealextreme, 80 at ebay from airshotshooting (link ), including shipping. Charger and batterys included.
Replacement bulb: $23 including shipping at ebay, (link $25 at lighthound.
Ultrafire WF-500: $32.38 at kaidomain and dealextreme, including shipping. (44.38 at Qualitychinagoods, but hey its the same flashlight so lets go with the cheapest offer.)
Charger:
DSD Charger: $6.61 at dealextreme, $7.23 at kaidomain, $9.36 at qualitychinagoods, $12 at lighthound.
WF-139: $12.31 at dealextreme, $12.82 at kaidomain, $15 from AW (including 2 mini-magnetic spacers of about 1mm, 2 bigger aluminum spacers, european adapter for free, just ask him. Don't know if the other dealers offer the same.), $16.03 from qualitychinagoods.
Batterys:
AW's Protected 18650's. $12 directly from AW. $13 From lighthound, if you wanna pick up some extras while you're already at it and wanna save on shipping.
Other protected 18650's. $ ???. Ultrafire's protected 18650 should fit, but there have been many reports of battery failures with the Ultrafires. So even thought theyre cheaper, i wouldn't recommend them. A few other protected 18650's didn't fit the WF-500, but im not sure wich one. Would be nice if somebody dropped me a PM with his experiences.
Please notice that i did NOT include shipping costs for lighthound and AW. Buying the WF-500 and 2 protected 18650's from AW costs you $4,50 shipping.
=================================
Complete costs:
G&P Scorpion from ebay (cheapest source): $80 including shipping, $19 bulb assembly ($5 Shipping, but buying both from the same supplier you should be able to save those extra costs for shipping).
This means $80 for the G&P R500 alone, and $99 - $104, depending on if you can save $5 on shipping or not.
Ultrafire WF-500. Hah, now thats the part where it gets a bit more complicated (Hey hey, stay here! i'm almost done! And please stop screaming, i've really gotta concentrate here. :lolsign: )
WF-500: $32.38 (from kaido/DX. Wouldn't buy from QCG, price difference is just too big.)
Batterys: 2x AW's protected 18650's: $24 from AW (+ $3.50 shipping) , $26 from lighthound. Lets keep it simple, and assume that those are the batterys that make the most sense for the WF-500.
So thats $59.88 for the WF-500 and AW's Protected 18650's.
Charger:
DSD: $6,61 at DX.
WF-500 + AW's Protected 18650's + DSD charger = $66.49 and we've got it all together.
WF-139: $12.31 at DX, $15 from AW (+ $1 shipping when you also buy 2 protected 18650's).
WF-500 + AW's Protected 18650's + WF-139 charger = $72.19 (DX) - $75.88 (AW) and again we've got it all together, with just a little bit more flexibility than with the DSD charger.
Replacement bulb: $10 from Qualitychinagoods.
This means $76,49 including extra bulb (DSD charger).
Or $82.19 - $85.88 including extra bulb (WF-139 charger from DX or AW).
Vs the already mentioned $99 - $104 for the G&P R500 with extra bulb.
=================================
To end my essay:
The only thing that could be seen as a advantage of the G&P R500 versus the WF-500 could be the slightly more spotty beam.
Somebody might mention the plug-in charger as a advantage, i don't think it is one. Why? Because you still have to "screw arround".. errrm, i mean, screw the flashlight open. IMHO this isn't really comparable to simple plug-in chargers, such as the Magcharger system, or the one Surefire has.
Theres not so much of a reason to keep a Li-Ion using flashlight in a charger allday anyway. The self-discharge isn't even anywhere near as fast as with the Ni-Cads used by the surefire rechargeables and the Magcharger.
The drawbacks of the R500 are higher inital cost, higher replacement cost, less realibility, unflexible charger and unflexible battery pack.
I don't mean to smack the R500, but in my eyes the WF-500 clearly is the better buy, and lets just say i thought a really long while about it.
Thanks for your time (and even more thanks for your opinion in case you'd let me know it), i hope this has helped some folks who have to make the same decision as i did.
Best regards,
Johannes
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