"Good" set of driving lights?

[Cheropair]

I have a 2008 Jeep Patriot, and while the factory headlights are some of the best OEM I've driven behind, they are a bit lacking in "width" for the deer around here. Throw isn't bad, control as far as glare is great (as long as the lenses are clean!). Looking to add a set of driving lights, mimicking the factory position on the top of the bumper. Wiring will be heavy, with relays, by switch, and only when highbeams are on. The wiring is easy, mounts very doable, just looking for the best bang for the buck. Factory kit is out of my price range, beam pattern probably not that good - looking for suggestions. Would like to get this all done for <$200, not including labor (free). Hella 500 or 500FF come to mind, dunno about beam pattern, throw, etc. Are there better options out there in this price range, and of these 2, which is the better choice?

 

[Hilldweller]

The Hella 500s aren't much of a light; the FF is better but there are much better players in the field.

I like the Hella Rallye 4000 in the Euro or Driving Beam. Halogen, not the HID or LED.

Also see what Scott did on his lustworthy diesel Grand.

 

[Hamilton Felix]

If you don't mind 5-3/4 size, an oldie but a goodie is the Cibie curved lens H1 high beam in a Grote or similar PAR46 bucket. Still, that's a long range light and you want spread. I used to run a pair of Cibie series 190 Oscar+ driving lights. Nice spread and good compliment to the curved lens H1's in my old Saab. Serious amount of light with 100 watt H2 bulbs. These are 7 inch lights, though fairly shallow front to back.

If appearances count, I must admit I'm curious about the larger of the Hella Black Magic lights.

I just went to rallylights.com and I must say that new 700FF looks good and the price is great. It's 7.3 inches in diameter. Wish I could find a chart of its beam pattern. Might be just what you're looking for.

 

[Hilldweller]

If you don't mind 5-3/4 size, an oldie but a goodie is the Cibie curved lens H1 high beam in a Grote or similar PAR46 bucket.

That's what my link was to....

If appearances count, I must admit I'm curious about the larger of the Hella Black Magic lights.

They're horrible.

I just went to rallylights.com and I must say that new 700FF looks good and the price is great. It's 7.3 inches in diameter. Wish I could find a chart of its beam pattern. Might be just what you're looking for.

They're not horrible...

 

[-Virgil-]

I'm kind of shocked by your enthusiasm for the Jeep Patriot headlamps being some of the best you've driven with -- you must have had vehicles with truly miserable lights before! The Patriot lights aren't the worst, but they are very, very far below state-of-the-art performance even if we exclude the very costly exotic high-end headlamps.

I haven't tested the Hella 700FF extensively, but a pair of Hella-branded lamps for $72 has to look like one of that maker's recent collection of "value line" products brought in from factories in "developing countries". In my experience, they don't hold up well. They are marketed more at the accessorizing market (for people who want their vehicle to have a particular appearance) rather than the performance lighting market. Still, there's a case to be made for buying them; they probably are about equal in materials and build quality/durability to the headlamps on the Patriot (i.e., acceptable at least for awhile, but overall not very good).

The Cibie-in-a-housing suggestion is an excellent one, and it's not possible to level any durability/quality complaints at it. They provide excellent distance reach, yes, but also a nice fan of width for the roadsides and curves. Keep in mind also that driving beams don't necessarily have to be aimed dead-ahead. You can toe them in slightly, using simple trigonometry to determine the amount of toe-in, so that their beams' hot spots cross at a distance of your choosing ahead of the vehicle, then diverge to light up the roadsides and curves.

About the only small aux high beam lamp I like is the Bosch #100, 4-inch round, which is nice for width and doesn't cost a lot of money.

 

[Hamilton Felix]

I've heard a lot of good things here about the Bosch Compact 100, both driving and fog. Quick web searching does not turn up a yellow fog, but the others are out there.

So, Scheinwerfermann, you're guessing that 700FF is closer to Optilux for quality? That's makes sense. I looked at the size, and I've heard good things about Free Form reflectors. But I'd agree that it's hard to find a lot of quality in a pair of lights that go for less than a C-note. The light weight could be a plus. Maybe some of those top brackets like I used to have on my Oscar+ lamps would help keep them from shaking to pieces.

 

[-Virgil-]

Careful not to fall into the trap of thinking a reflector optic ("Free Form" is what Hella calls it) is necessarily better than a lens optic, or a combined reflector/lens optic system. There are great and awful examples of both types.

Bosch #100 yellow fogs are current-production as far as I know; I picked up another pair from Stern last month for my Nephew's birthday present.

 

[Cheropair]

Thanks for the ideas! Cibie set up would be great, but well out of the amount I can spend (and hide from the Wife...), plus there is a problem with weight - will have to drill through the plastic bumper, then foam, to get to the structural part of the bumper. No more than sheet metal, and about 1 1/2" below the plastic face. Vibration will be an issue, don't need a big pendulum messing things up down the road. Was thinking about 6" or smaller, although I understand that larger is more efficient there are some compromises to be made, and plastic is OK - at this $$ level, I expect to replace them about the time I get rid of the Jeep (5yrs?). Don't really care about reflector optics vs lens, just as long as they work well.
Quick search for the Bosch 100 driving lights doesn't show me much available - are these current production? I like the size of the fogs, assuming the driving lights are the same size? Rallylights.com doesn't show them.
And compared to the others vehicles I've had (mostly sealed beam) the Patriot lights are good! The only other vehicle I've had that had (what I thought) good lights was a 1989 Ranger P/U - But they yellowing and hazed within 2 years. Added some Fox 3x5 driving lights w/100 watt bulbs, and a pair of Peterson 3x5 clear fogs on a roof top mount, then I could see. NOW I know they were illegal (too high and too many), although I never got caught....
Never thought about crossing the aux lights, but was thinking about a bit of a "walleye" aim.

 

[Hamilton Felix]

I believe the folks at rallylights.com sell only Hella. Search "Bosch Compact 100" and you will find them. If you do go with a bigger light (more useful light from same bulb) you should consider top brackets like I had on my Cibie 190 lights. Common approach in the rally world where they really beat their lights. When the light is anchored top and bottom it can't flop around.

Yep, some folks aim their lights walleyed to see what's in the ditches.

 

[-Virgil-]

Walleye isn't as good as crosseye.

I think Dan Stern keeps the Bosch Compact 100 drivers in stock; check with him.

(the lights on the '89 Ranger, and all Ford products of that era, were juuuuuuuuunk!)

 

[opposite locker]

Ive got Bosch c100 driving/euro beam lights on my truck and theyre pretty good at supplementing the high beams. Definitely much better beam than my previous Hella 500's. Bought mine from stern (with the bulbs he recommended...I think they were Narva Rangepower) and was unable to find them anywhere else at any price.

Not sure if they're still around, but I recall an eBay seller having several of the Bosch C100 fog lights (clear) for rather cheap...around $80 for a pair with switch & wiring.

 

[Cheropair]

I will mail Mr Stern in a few minutes about the Bosch Compact 100 Driving lights. Found the Cibie H1 w/ convex lens and by the time they are installed it would be out of my price range, plus not sure about the mounting depth. As far as mounting in a double shear arrangement, great idea, but won't work without major surgery to the front fascia - there just is not much metal accessable for mounting.....bummer. if all else fails, what is the better choice between the Hella 500 and the Hella 500FF? Hate to say it, but I may not be able to afford the "best", just looking for the best of the "good". Won a set of Light Force 170's in a raffle, played with them on the bench, sold them to a buddy who was more into "bling", much like the Black Magics. Optilux is barely claimed by Hella, so figured quality wasn't there....any others worth mentioning? PIAA, etc?

 

[Hilldweller]

The 500FF works better than the 500 ----- the 500 is just a bad hot-spot and nothing to the sides at all.

What about the Mircro DE? They're small and light.

 

[cdrake261]

my 1998 cherokee headlights makes driving out in the curvy country side a scary ride if you aren't using your brights.

 

[-Virgil-]

Cherokee headlamps are easy to upgrade bigtime without spending a ton of money, though.

 

[cdrake261]

Cherokee headlamps are easy to upgrade bigtime without spending a ton of money, though.

I read hella has upgrades for them but not sure if they perform enough for their cost

 

[-Virgil-]

The Hella units aren't great. The Cibies are excellent but they cost more. If you don't have money for the project, get these.

 

[Loko]

Walleye isn't as good as crosseye.

Hi Sheinwefermann!

Could you explain?

 

[-Virgil-]

With crosseye, you get some distance punch on/above the road, like the old "finger of light" that used to be advertised back when a certain type of sealed-beam headlamp came on the market, and your beams diverge to show the roadsides and curves starting at a usefully distant range in front of the vehicle. With walleye, you don't get distance punch and the beams diverge right at the vehicle, which means you're wasting light on areas too close to the car to be relevant once you're above about 30 mph.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

Walleye isn't as good as crosseye.

I keep hearing "bosseye" in my head, having watched a particular episode of "The IT Crowd" recently...