HDS Natural HA

Would you buy an HDS in natural HA?

  • Heckin' yeah!

    Votes: 45 66.2%
  • Yes, but only if the colors match

    Votes: 15 22.1%
  • No. Paint it Black!

    Votes: 8 11.8%

  • Total voters
    68

ampdude

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Oh, I agree. You've made a very good point. I still think that there could be something at play though when the dye is added that effects the overall strength of the anodizing. If so many parts per whatever is black dye instead of anodizing, you would think that would factor into the overall strength of the anodize, all else being equal. Such as true 2mm black vs. true 2mm Nat anodize.
 

Hogokansatsukan

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Oh, I agree. You've made a very good point. I still think that there could be something at play though when the dye is added that effects the overall strength of the anodizing. If so many parts per whatever is black dye instead of anodizing, you would think that would factor into the overall strength of the anodize, all else being equal. Such as true 2mm black vs. true 2mm Nat anodize.

Yes, but let me explain how the dye works. The dye is not included in the acid bath. The aluminum is first anodized which is basically just oxidizing the outer aluminum into aluminum oxide. This is changing the surface of the aluminum, both "growing" for lack of a better tern, into the aluminum and at the same time growing out from the surface in an equal proportion. In the case of a tube, the diameter will actually increase (which is important to note when dealing with tolerances). The aluminum oxide is not solid, but is filled with pores. Yes, very tiny little holes. At this point, you have Class 1. In order to get class 2, the part is now dipped in the dye which fills these pores. Then it is again dipped in a solution that seals the pores, thus trapping the dye in them. In Class 1, it will often get sealed as well, but this time without the dye in the pores.

There are some other reasons for moving away from Class 1, besides it being easier to cover up thin anodize, and that is that many flashlight manufacturers moved from 6061 to 7075 grade aluminum. 7075 can get a more bronze look to the anodizing while 6061 gets that nice dark green/gray if anodized to actual mil spec thickness. I don't mean to get into a discussion of 7075 vs. 6061 as they have different properties, both good and bad, depending on what the intended use is, but 6061 does anodize and look much better when done properly than does 7075 (my opinion, but if you like that dark green look, and I know I do, 6061 will get you there).

I have many lights, and I really wish I had kept my old natural HA Surefire E2E... I loved the look of that natural HA, and still do. If you look at photos of the original HDS lights (the ones without the bezel) like the EDC Basic or Ultimate, you will see the anodizing is a nice dark green. Then when you see the first production run of NovaTac... light gray, light green... crappo anodizing (and I screamed about it. Henry had already left NovaTac at that point and that's one area corners got cut much to my dismay). The second run from NT was... yep... Class 2.

The current HDS have MIL-A-8625F Type III Class 2, which is specified on the drawings. Yesterday we received some new heads from our machinist and we spent a good deal of time checking them over carefully. Everything from making sure the thread tolerances were in spec included the tiny screw holes no one ever sees after the electronics are added, how much current loss (there is always some) in the head where the threads are not anodized, and the anodize itself. We check carefully because if it is not in spec, we send them back. It was the first time for this machinist to do these heads though he has done other parts for us. They were absolutely perfect. The same day, I scrapped 464 reflectors because they didn't make the cut, but that wasn't the machinist, that was the vacuum reflective coating.
 

ampdude

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Yea, I remember my old HDS back in 2007. I think it was a 42XT. What a great anodizing that was, it was like an old school Surefire from 2000-2001ish.

And Random Dan, thanks for posting this thread!
 

INFRNL

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I didn't even know about this thread until I visited the group buy today.

I voted yes to Natural, I'm always in for something different from what is currently available.
 

tech25

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I am interested in the natural but want to see how much more these would cost over the currently available lights. My lights are all users so I dont care about any mismatch but I do like the Natural look.
 

ampdude

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I am interested in the natural but want to see how much more these would cost over the currently available lights. My lights are all users so I dont care about any mismatch but I do like the Natural look.

Seriously dude? You either want something or you don't. It's already a high priced light, fork over a little more for what you really want. You remind me of the guys who buy a $2,000 pistol and then buy a $19.99 Uncle Mike's holster to carry it around in, instead of something decent.. That's just not right.
 

tech25

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I like the Natural look but it is not something that I must have. I am a fan of HDS regardless of what color they are. I look for features like UI, tint, longevity etc. For me, the cost over the current lights is a part to factor in.

In your analogy, I would be the guy who is buying an Ed Brown and wants to know how much it would be to have it in black nitride...
 

ampdude

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I guess part of it is also, I had one of the originals back in the day. And seeing as everything is all black nowadays, it would be a refreshing throwback. I'm old school like that.
 

Hogokansatsukan

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I like the Natural look but it is not something that I must have. I am a fan of HDS regardless of what color they are. I look for features like UI, tint, longevity etc. For me, the cost over the current lights is a part to factor in.

In your analogy, I would be the guy who is buying an Ed Brown and wants to know how much it would be to have it in black nitride...

No, no! Parkerized! What can I say... I like parkerized guns that have that "worn" look.
 

knucklegary

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14+ members pro natural finish voters.. Do any of us believe we will see a natural HA rotary offered? :dedhorse:

I bet if we were 14 strong on the Ti HDS voters thread it'd be a different story 🤔
 

Hogokansatsukan

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Never say never.
And while yes, there are 14 yes in the CPF titanium thread, there are another 8 in another forum. I do get around... albeit slowly and I never use turn signals because it's nobody's business where I'm going.
 

Random Dan

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Never say never.
And while yes, there are 14 yes in the CPF titanium thread, there are another 8 in another forum. I do get around... albeit slowly and I never use turn signals because it's nobody's business where I'm going.
Do you ever try to solicit new vendors for these runs? I know some places like urbanedcsupply will pick up exotic metal runs from the likes of Tain, Sinner, Barrel, and such. I get that HDS is kinda picky about vendors though.
 

Hogokansatsukan

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Do you ever try to solicit new vendors for these runs? I know some places like urbanedcsupply will pick up exotic metal runs from the likes of Tain, Sinner, Barrel, and such. I get that HDS is kinda picky about vendors though.

Actually, we do look into different vendors, but yes, to say we are picky is really an understatement. Our number one requirement is simply to build what we want to within spec, and it is amazing how many can't achieve this, suddenly forget how to achieve this, or simply don't want to be bothered with a run of parts under quantity 100,000.
 

nbp

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No it wouldn't. It would look like crap.

And I don't like two tone cars either. They also look like crap.

Well, I dont think you can HA a steel bezel to match the alu body, so you're gonna have to get used to the idea of two-tone. Most of the HDS out there are plain steel bezel on a black body (I suspect the black bezels are in the minority) so once again two tone HDS is pretty standard.
 

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