When I ordered my first Clicky from Henry about two years ago, he was telling people 2 weeks for custom orders. I got it in 4 days. When he has the parts, he runs a tight ship. I am confident that whatever is holding up the process, it is not a deficiency on the part of Henry in building and shipping lights. I am sure that whenever he has the proper components in hand, lights will be built and shipped. I hope that those who have made orders are able to wait for them. HDS is great little company, and is worth supporting.
HDS updates: thoughts?
- Thread starter logikal16
- Start date
Help Support Candle Power Flashlight Forum
mauiblue
Newly Enlightened
Like some has mentioned, I am one that will wait until customers that has orders on hold start getting their flashlights and that shipping is consistent enough where I am comfortable and confident that I will get my order within a week and not more than two weeks. The product has a good following but not enough for me to throw cash out and wait months without a specific time of receiving the product I paid for upfront.
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk
The thing to remember, though, is that if Henry compromises on quality, then he has compromised on the very thing that, IMO, makes HDS the #1 light. The quality and workmanship that is apparent and inherent in the product.
As far as the "unsecured loan argument." I believe that we can all plainly see from Henry's record, that he is an honest businessman. If you feel the risk of HDS folding and disappearing with your payment is too great, then do not place an order. IF you have faith in Henry and understand his record, then place an order. Simple as that.
As far as suppliers problems go, we know from correspondence reported here on the forum, that Henry is having problems with AT LEAST the machine shops responsible for the bodies. Unfortunately, he has not let us know yet, personally [we're still working off of hear-say]. That would be comforting, but, at the end of the day, Henry may be more needed elsewhere.
FPSRelic
Enlightened
I ordered a HDS rotary in September last year, it took until about Dec or January for it to be shipped. With regards to customer service from HDS, there are these points:
1. With regards to communications about the order, although I was never contacted directly with updates, any emails I sent to HDS were replied to within a day or two.
2. After emailing HDS (aka Henry) regarding an ETA, the response was that they were waiting on parts to be returned from adonizing. My understanding is that this is done via a contractor, who is outside Henry's control. I once ran a small computer shop, and I know how frustrating it can be when an order is held up waiting on parts. For this reason, I was happy to cut Henry slack. It is a very stressful situation to be in, when circumstances out of your control are damaging your reputation, cost you money in the form of cancelled orders, and having to deal with those difficult "your whole world must revolve around me and my order or your customer service sucks" customers.
3. My understanding is that Henry is allowing people to cancel their orders if they wish. This in itself is good imo. I've placed orders with some companies who will only offer up store credit for cancelled orders, or charge a small percentage as a restocking fee. $200 is a lot of money to outlay for such a long period of time, I thin kthat if you have issue with this, it is a good idea to cancel your order, and wait until one of the retailers has them in stock.
I think it's good that you can order these lights still. I could see these start to become like atwood tools, except being actually useful.
1. With regards to communications about the order, although I was never contacted directly with updates, any emails I sent to HDS were replied to within a day or two.
2. After emailing HDS (aka Henry) regarding an ETA, the response was that they were waiting on parts to be returned from adonizing. My understanding is that this is done via a contractor, who is outside Henry's control. I once ran a small computer shop, and I know how frustrating it can be when an order is held up waiting on parts. For this reason, I was happy to cut Henry slack. It is a very stressful situation to be in, when circumstances out of your control are damaging your reputation, cost you money in the form of cancelled orders, and having to deal with those difficult "your whole world must revolve around me and my order or your customer service sucks" customers.
3. My understanding is that Henry is allowing people to cancel their orders if they wish. This in itself is good imo. I've placed orders with some companies who will only offer up store credit for cancelled orders, or charge a small percentage as a restocking fee. $200 is a lot of money to outlay for such a long period of time, I thin kthat if you have issue with this, it is a good idea to cancel your order, and wait until one of the retailers has them in stock.
I think it's good that you can order these lights still. I could see these start to become like atwood tools, except being actually useful.
I have an early HDS B42 that I had upgraded by Milky. I have a Ra High CRI that I bought used on MarketPlace. These are the most practical lights I own. I ordered an EDC High CRI Clicky as soon as I was aware that they were available in very early January. I plan to wait until it is delivered, however long this takes. I will not cancel this order and make it harder for Henry's business to survive. He makes a stellar quality product. I want his business to succeed. The interest on the cost of a light that I could theoretically be loosing is currently about $1.00 a year. Give the guy a break. I've been in a small manufacturing company. The company I worked for almost died when one of our key suppliers went under because another of their customers, a big one, died. Capitalism is a pretty merciless system with more than a little chance baked in. If fate deals a manufacturer a bad hand and the customer base isn't supportive, they will be gone. That would be a dark day for flashaholics.
Filip
Newly Enlightened
+2
I think OP's intention was to improve poor communication with HDS, not to discuss loyalty, quality, delivery dates or troubles running a business. We have other thread(s) for that so please stay on topic. Why Henry doesn't bother to chime in here (even when directly asked) is a mystery for me.
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DM51
Flashaholic
The poor communication has been mostly about inaccurate/missed shipping dates, so I think that can be discussed here.
Loyalty/quality are not relevant so those aspects should be discussed elsewhere.
alanagnostic
Enlightened
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2006
- Messages
- 337
I ordered a high CRI clicky on Dec. 31 st of last year. I had been waiting more than a year to order that light. I'm very patient and I have great confidence in Henry and his lights.
I'm willing to wait as long as it takes to get my clicky, but what I don't like is him taking our money when he's not sure he can deliver the lights in a reasonable amount of time. Tell me, would Henry accept those conditions from his suppliers? Would he accept having to pay his suppliers in advance and then have no idea when they might ship? And when Henry calls those suppliers to check on his order and they tell him the parts are two weeks out and then four weeks later they still haven't arrived, how would he feel?
Someone else in this thread said that if this were anyone but Henry they wouldn't put up with this. I tend to agree. I trust Henry so I know I'm going to get my light and I'm confident it will meet my expectations, but that doesn't mean I have to like the way he runs his business.
Waiting patiently for a fantastic light to arrive.
I'm willing to wait as long as it takes to get my clicky, but what I don't like is him taking our money when he's not sure he can deliver the lights in a reasonable amount of time. Tell me, would Henry accept those conditions from his suppliers? Would he accept having to pay his suppliers in advance and then have no idea when they might ship? And when Henry calls those suppliers to check on his order and they tell him the parts are two weeks out and then four weeks later they still haven't arrived, how would he feel?
Someone else in this thread said that if this were anyone but Henry they wouldn't put up with this. I tend to agree. I trust Henry so I know I'm going to get my light and I'm confident it will meet my expectations, but that doesn't mean I have to like the way he runs his business.
Waiting patiently for a fantastic light to arrive.
Agreed.
A fair amount of this mess is beyond his control, but as a business owner, he has an obligation to keep his customers informed.
It's not even about time estimates. An occasional public update, telling us what he's been dealing with, would be plenty to keep most of us happy.
Expecting his customers to email him directly to get updates is simply not sustainable. Hence the Twitter account.
HDS_Systems
Enlightened
All,
It has been a frustrating period for us as well. We had the incredibly bad fortune of having three machine shops in a row fail to deliver usable parts.
The first shop was the shop we started using back in 1997. They had been through a few management changes but the last management change was a hostile takeover by one of the partners. They went from delivering good parts to delivering junk - with 85% reject rates. We gave the shop several months to correct their problems before firing them. They lost all of their senior people and it was clear they were in over their heads.
It takes time to find a machine shop. You spend a lot of time talking to shops and getting quotes. Many of the shops that say they are interested don't bother to give you a quote. Once you get the quotes back you need to look them over and if none are acceptable, keep on talking to more shops. It can easily take a month or two to locate a shop that can do the work.
We require a new shop to provide first article samples. This shows that the shop interprets the drawings in the same way we do. It also shows that the shop is capable of manufacturing the part to specification. And it shows that the quality of the machine shop and finishing shop is acceptable. To produce the first article sample, a shop must invest in all of the necessary tooling required to make the parts. It normally takes one to two months to provide a full set of first article samples if nothing comes up to delay the project. And delays do crop up on a regular basis.
Once the first article samples are approved the parts can enter production.
The second shop had a good reputation and reasonable prices. There were a few delays getting started but eventually we got the first article samples. Not a single part was to specification. We provided a detailed problem report. After a couple of weeks the shop called back to say they could not make the parts. Sigh.
The third shop made parts for the space industry, as well as the local bomb factory. They had a nice shop and a good reputation. Shortly after we gave them the PO they decided to acquire a new fancy machine - dual synchronize spindles, flying tools, very sophisticated. Supposedly this machine could make a complete part untouched by human hands. Suffice it to say that after a long list of delays and excuses, they were never able to deliver a single part to specification.
The latest shop is just starting to deliver the first article samples. The first part was approved earlier this week and we will be getting the first delivery of those parts shortly.
To make sure this never happens again, we are bringing on a second machine shop so we will have two different shops to draw from.
Several of you have cancelled your orders and I completely understand. If someone else wishes to cancel an order, please send us an e-mail requesting cancellation and we will cancel your order and issue you a full refund.
We ship in chronological order any order we have parts to complete. As parts come in, we will ship the oldest orders we have parts to complete. That goes for regular customers as well as dealers.
I apologize for the long delays.
Henry.
It has been a frustrating period for us as well. We had the incredibly bad fortune of having three machine shops in a row fail to deliver usable parts.
The first shop was the shop we started using back in 1997. They had been through a few management changes but the last management change was a hostile takeover by one of the partners. They went from delivering good parts to delivering junk - with 85% reject rates. We gave the shop several months to correct their problems before firing them. They lost all of their senior people and it was clear they were in over their heads.
It takes time to find a machine shop. You spend a lot of time talking to shops and getting quotes. Many of the shops that say they are interested don't bother to give you a quote. Once you get the quotes back you need to look them over and if none are acceptable, keep on talking to more shops. It can easily take a month or two to locate a shop that can do the work.
We require a new shop to provide first article samples. This shows that the shop interprets the drawings in the same way we do. It also shows that the shop is capable of manufacturing the part to specification. And it shows that the quality of the machine shop and finishing shop is acceptable. To produce the first article sample, a shop must invest in all of the necessary tooling required to make the parts. It normally takes one to two months to provide a full set of first article samples if nothing comes up to delay the project. And delays do crop up on a regular basis.
Once the first article samples are approved the parts can enter production.
The second shop had a good reputation and reasonable prices. There were a few delays getting started but eventually we got the first article samples. Not a single part was to specification. We provided a detailed problem report. After a couple of weeks the shop called back to say they could not make the parts. Sigh.
The third shop made parts for the space industry, as well as the local bomb factory. They had a nice shop and a good reputation. Shortly after we gave them the PO they decided to acquire a new fancy machine - dual synchronize spindles, flying tools, very sophisticated. Supposedly this machine could make a complete part untouched by human hands. Suffice it to say that after a long list of delays and excuses, they were never able to deliver a single part to specification.
The latest shop is just starting to deliver the first article samples. The first part was approved earlier this week and we will be getting the first delivery of those parts shortly.
To make sure this never happens again, we are bringing on a second machine shop so we will have two different shops to draw from.
Several of you have cancelled your orders and I completely understand. If someone else wishes to cancel an order, please send us an e-mail requesting cancellation and we will cancel your order and issue you a full refund.
We ship in chronological order any order we have parts to complete. As parts come in, we will ship the oldest orders we have parts to complete. That goes for regular customers as well as dealers.
I apologize for the long delays.
Henry.
Welcome back Henry, it is indeed good to hear from you. 
Your post here will be much appreciated by all who have placed/are considering placing orders with you.
We are certainly on your side in all this, and all of us who have the pleasure of owning your lights know the wait is worth it. I hope that things smooth out soon for you; I can only imagine the frustration. From personal experience, you have always demonstrated excellent service and have been nothing but friendly and professional. I hope those waiting are able to stick with you just a bit longer. Best wishes going forward.
Your post here will be much appreciated by all who have placed/are considering placing orders with you.
We are certainly on your side in all this, and all of us who have the pleasure of owning your lights know the wait is worth it. I hope that things smooth out soon for you; I can only imagine the frustration. From personal experience, you have always demonstrated excellent service and have been nothing but friendly and professional. I hope those waiting are able to stick with you just a bit longer. Best wishes going forward.
AnAppleSnail
Flashlight Enthusiast
Henry,
Thank you for this update. I look forward to getting my order filled (In the order it was received) and wish you good results with your new suppliers.
mrlysle
Enlightened
Henry, absolutely great to get that personal update from you!!!! Thank you, thank you, thank you! A lot of us here are behind you 100% and hope you can get all these stumbling blocks cleared out, and full steam ahead. I only have 2 HDS lights, but once you get back on your feet, I plan on adding some more! Probably get them through Dan. That way, he can ship it in a holster! Thanks again for letting us all know you're still pluggin' away, and best of luck to you.
mauiblue
Newly Enlightened
Mahalo Henry for your post to this thread. With all the positive feedback I've heard from repeat customers and the faith they have in you and your product, I just might get in the order queue. I've been so interested in getting a HDS System light since discovering it on this forum. I hope you will get everything sorted out and ramp up production to everyone's satisfaction.
Burntrice
Newly Enlightened
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2010
- Messages
- 158
Having been a 'flashaholic' for around 2 years now I feel I've recently reached lumen adulthood. I'm not interested in many of the makes mentioned on these forums (having owned and sold a few of them)
About a month ago I bought a McGizmo and a week or so ago I started eyeing up HDS. Having read as much as I can, I just want to say how much I personally appreciate your post Henry. This morning I thought, maybe HDS will be no more, maybe I've missed the chance to get hold of one!
Your post has cleared my mind, because of this I will be placing an order soon. I'm happy to wait until payday and this hopefully will give you a chance to clear some backlog.
I now know I will get my first HDS! just a matter of time
About a month ago I bought a McGizmo and a week or so ago I started eyeing up HDS. Having read as much as I can, I just want to say how much I personally appreciate your post Henry. This morning I thought, maybe HDS will be no more, maybe I've missed the chance to get hold of one!
Your post has cleared my mind, because of this I will be placing an order soon. I'm happy to wait until payday and this hopefully will give you a chance to clear some backlog.
I now know I will get my first HDS! just a matter of time
ironhorse
Enlightened
Hang in there Henry. Better days coming. My EDC120 can hold me over.
Duraflametree
Newly Enlightened
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2011
- Messages
- 11
This update on the situation is greatly appreciated. I believe that next paycheck I will place an order and happily wait in line.
Thanks, Henry.
For everyone else: I'll be updating the Twitter feed: https://twitter.com/HDSSystems
If anyone wants to help, please contact me.
For everyone else: I'll be updating the Twitter feed: https://twitter.com/HDSSystems
If anyone wants to help, please contact me.
shane45_1911
Enlightened
Thanks for checking in Henry. Good luck and best wishes.
