Help with Surefire M6 setup

[I came to the light...]

I am going to purchase a M6 for use with 3x17670 and a WA1185 bulb, but I'm not sure on the specifics of creating this setup. Is any boring / modification required to use 3x17670? And I highly doubt the WA1185 just drops in... help?

If I've missed a thread detailing this, please just give me a link. Thanks for reading

edit: please go to post #15

 

[DM51]

No boring, no modification necessary. All you need are:
Fivemega 3x17670 holder
Fivemega MN bi-pin socket
AW protected 17670 cells
WA 1185 bulbs

 

[gswitter]

If you haven't already purchased the M6, and your intention is to run it on 3x Li-ion, you might want to consider one of Fivemega's Megalenium bodies instead.

 

[I came to the light...]

OK, cool, thanks. I guess I'll have to either find these used or wait for another run...

 

[I came to the light...]

If you haven't already purchased the M6, and your intention is to run it on 3x Li-ion, you might want to consider one of Fivemega's Megalenium bodies instead.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll look into it.

 

[Tim W]

Not needed, but nice to have:

Either of the following:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=229959

I have the three level version and really like it.

Tim

 

[Patriot]

I have an extra FM battery holder if that will help. PM if interested.

 

[I came to the light...]

Not needed, but nice to have:

Either of the following:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=229959

I have the three level version and really like it.

Tim

Thanks for the suggestion. I've seen these before; my impression is that they are necessary for some higher power mods, and in this setup would simply prolong bulb life, correct?

Maybe it's just me, but multiple modes in a light made to really shine kills me, unless the switching mechanism is completely divorced from the switch, eg EagleTac M2 with rear clicky. Maybe it's because I feel ridiculous holding a light that big without blinding everybody around me

Patriot - PM sent.

 

[Tim W]

Thanks for the suggestion. I've seen these before... and in this setup would simply prolong bulb life, correct?

Maybe it's just me, but multiple modes in a light made to really shine kills me...Maybe it's because I feel ridiculous holding a light that big without blinding everybody around me

Addressing the second point first, the M6 is smaller than most "C" and "D" Maglites so that isn't too much of a consideration.


In answer to your first point, yes, I think the soft start might:thinking: prolong bulb life. Not too much concern with $5 WA 1185's, but definitely one when you're talking about ~$30 bulbs such as the LF HO M6R or even the stock surefire bulbs. You do gain some run-time also. I can go about 45-50 minutes on 30%, 30-32 minutes on 60% and about 20 minutes on High.:twothumbs

Besides, you can go from a nice, VERY useable 30% to a blinding 100% in about 1/2 second:devil: with two quick taps on the tail. Also, AW also now has a clicky type switch that wasn't available when I ordered mine, and might be the better solution, even if it is a "one-speed" switch.

 

[jslappa]

The megalennium will be the cheaper than putting together an M6. Plus, the Megalennium gear is available right now. The used M6 is not.

Since you clearly don't plan to run your M6 on $12 a set primaries, (based on your 17670 reference) you'll really get more mileage out of the Megalennium. That runs 3 x 18650's. The 1185 will hold it's output at a higher rate, as opposed to the 17670's.

You might wait months to find a used M6 for less than $300, and then you'll still have to battle the others out looking for one. Whereas everything you need for the Megalennium is available now.

Megalennium Setup
$119 Megalennium (available and ready to ship)
$48 Bi Pin assembly (available and ready to ship)
$156 NIB KT4 with MN15 and MN16 (available)
$6 WA1185 (available)
$36 3 x 18650 (available and ready to ship) Or $42 for AW's new 2600mAh 18650
$359 or $365 depending on batteries, plus shipping

M6 setup
$300 at least, for the M6 used
$42 3 x 17670
$48 FM MN bipin assembly
$6 WA 1185
$30 3 x 17670 batteries
$426 plus shipping

 

[QtrHorse]

The megalennium will be the cheaper than putting together an M6. Plus, the Megalennium gear is available right now. The used M6 is not.

Since you clearly don't plan to run your M6 on $12 a set primaries, (based on your 17670 reference) you'll really get more mileage out of the Megalennium. That runs 3 x 18650's. The 1185 will hold it's output at a higher rate, as opposed to the 17670's.

You might wait months to find a used M6 for less than $300, and then you'll still have to battle the others out looking for one. Whereas everything you need for the Megalennium is available now.

Megalennium Setup
$119 Megalennium (available and ready to ship)
$48 Bi Pin assembly (available and ready to ship)
$156 NIB KT4 with MN15 and MN16 (available)
$6 WA1185 (available)
$36 3 x 18650 (available and ready to ship) Or $42 for AW's new 2600mAh 18650
$359 or $365 depending on batteries, plus shipping

M6 setup
$300 at least, for the M6 used
$42 3 x 17670
$48 FM MN bipin assembly
$6 WA 1185
$30 3 x 17670 batteries
$426 plus shipping

You forgot the $49 AW softstart switch for the Mega set up unless you want to take your chances with flashing the 1185.

This brings the grand total for the Mega option to: $408 or $414.

I would rather have the Mega set-up because of the option for the 18650 cells instead of the 17670 cells.

 

[I came to the light...]

quick question about runtimes. I have a FM85 (WA1185, 3 AW C cells) that runs ~50 minutes (not tested by me), staying fairly near 100% for most of its runtime. Just doing the cell capacity ratios that gives me ~40 minutes from 3x 2600mah 18650, and ~25 from 3x17670. But what I don't know is the different in internal resistance. Do 17670 and/or 18650 cells have internal resistance that is enough higher than li-ion C cells to affect runtime or the output curve?

 

[Patriot]

You're right in the ballpark Tristan. AW 2200mah cells last about 37 minutes, so you'll have a few more minutes on the 2600mah cells.

I don't think it's quite accurate to say that any of these non-regulated set-ups run without dimming including even the 3C arrangement. During my testing the C cells drop 5-10% in the first 3-4 minutes. If you go to the other end of the scale with 17670's you're talking about a nearly 20% drop in the first 3-4 minutes. Now, it's true that this reduction in output isn't really noticeable to the brain it's clearly evident on the lux meter.

 

[I came to the light...]

Thanks for the reply Patriot. I guess I meant good relative to something like a maglite... i know it's not regulated like a good LED, but it's good enough. Anyway, it sounds like 3x17670 would indeed be a bad idea for any sort of runtime. 25min is barely acceptable, and the drop makes it worse.

 

[I came to the light...]

OK, I think I've got my setup figured out. However, before I start throwing my money around, I'd like to verify with you that everything will work, and nothing is missing:

1x Megalennium w/ switch: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=226469
1x SureFire KT4 head assembly: http://www.tacticalsupply.com/product/127//index.php
1x Bi Pin MN Socket: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=229612
3x WA1185 bulbs: http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=168089
3x AW 2600mah 18650s: http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=193269

A few questions here. First, is the softstart really necessary? I've run a WA1185 off of 9xAA and 3xC for a while with no soft start and no problems. Second, I can't seem to find a place to buy a M6 head at a reasonable price; any pointers? And last, just out of curiosity, how well does this setup work with the stock reflector? What kind of beam does it produce (how much throw, artifacts / defects)? Thanks.

 

[jslappa]

I bought 15 WA1185's and am still on my very first one.....and I don't use the AW softstart switch. As a matter of fact, I sold it to a fellow CPF'er. Even on a cold start, the 18650's light the 1185 on the first click, but have not flashed it yet. I play with that light every day, without fail. If you're planning to buy 3 or 4 1185's anyway, I would wait to buy the softstart. It's available through AW, as well as LH.com (version B is what you want, not version A) But, you don't want the 30/60/100 level anyway. If you end up instaflashing a $5 bulb, you can order the softstart at that time.

The best deal for a new KT4 is $156. PM me for details. It comes with the MN15 and MN16 too. CB is not an option AFAIK.

The stock reflector is MOP, so you'll get a balance of throw and spill. Artifacts will depend on dust particles on the inside and outside of the lens, as well as the placement of the 1185. With the FM Bi Pin assembly, you'll be able to adjust the height of the bulb, because the pins of the bulb don't have to be shoved all the way in the assembly. In addition, you'll have the ability to slightly adjust the 1185's left/right cant. You'll need to adjust each bulb to get the filament perfectly centered. Some users try to center the glass bulb.....that's not the right way. You center the filament because that's what gets hot, and generates the light.

If you are not willing to POSSIBLY flash a $5 bulb, get the softstart. It has memory, so you can always just set it to turn on max every time. However, that'll still give you the same chance to flash as the standard clicky since both will put 11.1 or more volts into the light. I use this charger for all my batteries. http://venom-group.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=VEN-0657 I can set the charger to charge to 3.7, or whatever I choose (within safe limits) so my batteries NEVER come off the charger at 4.2V hot. They're all set to 4V. I might get 2 minutes less run time, but my 1185 will most likely not flash.

Either way you go, the Megalennium will give you a longer run time, as you have pointed out. Plus, you get the added benefit of a slightly shorter light. It's a bit more hoody/jacket pocket friendly.

John

 

[I came to the light...]

Thanks a bunch for the detailed reply.

Unfortunately I don't have such a nice charger, so my cells will come off the charger at 4.2v. However, as you say, it's still improbable, with a $5 loss if I bet wrong, so I'm thinking I'll wait.

pm sent about the kt4. I wish CB was an option, but it's not worth $40...

 

[jslappa]

I would actually be interested in a KT4 conversion head in CB. Does anyone know if it can be ordered from Surefire that way? I guess my question could be extended to smooth bezel too. I would bet that smooth isn't available at all, though. that's too old-school right?

Patriot....:wave: I know you know the answer. What say you?

 

[Patriot]

I would actually be interested in a KT4 conversion head in CB. Does anyone know if it can be ordered from Surefire that way? I guess my question could be extended to smooth bezel too. I would bet that smooth isn't available at all, though. that's too old-school right?

Patriot....:wave: I know you know the answer. What say you?

Sorry jslappa, I really don't know how it can be currently ordered. I'm sure that new old stock is available at many retailers and perhaps they can be found in all three styles. I've actually never purchased a KT4 kit by itself and it always had a light attached to it.

 

[I came to the light...]

I think it's finally time to post my conclusion. I went with the setup in post 15, but for various reasons I only accumulated all the parts a few weeks ago. I put them together all together, turned it on.... and got nothing . It turns out there was a contact problem caused by the bumps on the AW 2600mAh 18650s and the very short megalennium contacts. Now I have the gaps filled with magnets, and I really like this combination of size, brightness, beam pattern, and style. It doesn't stick around 1000 lumens nearly as long as the same bulb with 3 Cs, but it is still impressive. However, the stock megalennium switch is giving me trouble, and I'm looking into a replacement. I seem to remember something about a McClicky...

Anyway, thank you all very much for your input. This is my first homemade-ish light (that is, not bought as a whole unit), and the extra effort and price were well worth it.