Here chuck

StrikerDown · May 5, 2009

What a busy day!

Okay, I need a new chuck for the mill and have been scouting eBay. I didn't know there were so many different kinds! I think I need at least two chucks, big and small unless there is a one size drills all I haven't seen yet!

Albrecht looks like a nice chuck and it isn't chinese made! Are they pretty good? Also I don't really need a keyless they seem like they would be good for speedy changes but I'm not doing mass production so it isn't necessary unless they are just good strong chucks worth every penny.

What I hate about my Chinese junk that came with the RF-31 is you can't tighten it enough to tap a 3/8' 16 hole without it spinning a brand new decent quality taper tap! The key is a sloppy fit and a knuckle buster!

I don't mind a key type and I have seen the Jacob's Ball Bearing chucks on the bay for 10-15 % of new, Jacob's chucks have been around since, well since forever, are they any good?

What do the experts think or recommend?

Thanks in advance for the help.

wquiles · May 5, 2009

I am the newbie, but I can strongly recommend the Jacobs Ball-Bearing Super Chuck - I have the 16N on my lathe for about a year now (I also used it in my 8x lathe), and absolutely love it!

I also have the SPI Ultra Precision Drill Chuck with an R8 arbor (not an integrated unit), and it has served me well in my mini-mill, but is is a smaller unit, and it is not as heavy duty as the Jacobs above.

If Barry were here, he would tell you that it is hard to top the Albrecht Keyless Drill Chuck with the Integral Shank. Lets see what else he and others recommend

Will

StrikerDown · May 5, 2009

Will,

I almost bought a Real clean used Jacob's 18N on the bay for $27. but the wife was bugging me about something and the auction got away from me!

Maybe a good combination would be a 16 or 18N Jacob's and a smaller Albrecht.

I don't know what Matt is sending with the lathe but I am sure it is more cheap ChiCrap!

Looking at the Enco catalog it looks like the Jacobs Ball bearing chucks can be taken apart for cleaning or rebuilding, that's kind of nice.

By the way Will, I'm newbier than you! You are the expert machinist, I have seen your work!

rmteo · May 5, 2009

I never hold a tap in a drill chuck (keyed or keyless). Use a collet instead - I use ER-16's or ER-32's depending on the size of the tap.

StrikerDown · May 5, 2009

rmteo said:
I never hold a tap in a drill chuck (keyed or keyless). Use a collet instead - I use ER-16's or ER-32's depending on the size of the tap.

I had to make due with what I have. For the time being I only have a few R8 collets, No ER's. I will someday havea good set or ER40's and a tapmatic, but that day isn't here yet!

Question: If you are turning the tap in a collet will it break the tap when it bottoms in a blind hole?

rmteo · May 5, 2009

Yes. It will probably break before it bottoms out due to chip build-up.

precisionworks · May 5, 2009

Albrecht looks like a nice chuck ... Are they pretty good? Also I don't really need a keyless they seem like they would be good for speedy changes but I'm not doing mass production so it isn't necessary unless they are just good strong chucks worth every penny.

Albrecht is the best of the best, bar none. There are a few good copies, and a ton of poor copies, but even the best copy (Jacobs high torque-high precision keyless) will not grip as tightly as Albrecht.

During manufacturing, the shell and the hood are ground as a matched pair, and stay together through the rest of the process. The jaws, which look so simple, go through over 20 seperate machining operations. The spindle threads are first ground, then lapped together, to ensure maximum clamping power. After final assembly, every chuck is qualified for total runout with 4-6 different diameter test pins at two distinct locations on each pin. Then, a QC Inspector repeats the process with 4-6 different pins before approving the chuck for packaging.

Which is why they are the lowest cost keyless chuck - over time - and the most expensive to buy initially. Like a Kurt vise, this is a purchase you will never regret.

precisionworks · May 5, 2009

I never hold a tap in a drill chuck ...

For smaller taps, 3/8" and under, most keyless chucks do a nice job. You see production machinists drill & tap with a keyless chuck all day long. The only caution here is when using ... an Albrecht. The more the drill or tap tries to spin, the tighter the Albrecht gets. With every other keyless, the tap will stop at the bottom of a blind hole & the chuck will spin.

If you're tapping something soft, like aluminum, and the blind hole is short - around 1D depth, it's best to hand tap. Otherwise you risk pulling out the freshly cut threads.

It will probably break before it bottoms out due to chip build-up.

There are two taps that avoid the problem. Thread formers have no chip to worry with. Spiral flute taps eject the chip out the back as the tap goes forward - pretty neat to watch the first time you use one.

brickbat · May 5, 2009

precisionworks said:
Albrecht is the best of the best, bar none.

Agreed.

But, If you don't want to spend that much, check out the Rohm Supra.

I've had one on a DP for about 10 years - no problems so far. I've gotten quite used to the keyless chuck, and will be setting up one for the mill and lathe next. (replacing a Jacobs Ball bearing Superchuck)

Anglepoise · May 5, 2009

Picture is a 1/2" cobalt drill doing it's thing in a 1.250" rod of Ti.
Never even thought it would slip and it didn't. Good key less chucks are worth every penny.

precisionworks · May 5, 2009

Nice equipment, David. The Cadillac of keyless drill chucks, used with the Mercedes Benz of 3-jaw lathe chucks :thumbsup:

cmacclel · May 5, 2009

brickbat said:
Agreed.

But, If you don't want to spend that much, check out the Rohm Supra.

I've had one on a DP for about 10 years - no problems so far. I've gotten quite used to the keyless chuck, and will be setting up one for the mill and lathe next. (replacing a Jacobs Ball bearing Superchuck)

I just bought a brand new Rohm Supra and I personally like the SPI Keyless much better. It is hands down smoother and tighter. Maybe I got a junk Rohm?

Mac

StrikerDown · May 6, 2009

I found this on ebay. It isn't an Albrecht :mecry: But the buy it now price seem decent. It's a Jacobs label keyless, seller says Manufacturer is Rohm. Italy??

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=180353728675

Albrecht seems to not only be a nice chuck but the ultimate. My wallet is kicking my A$$ right now with the constant hardware buys, do you think this is a good deal for an okay Chuck?

cmacclel · May 6, 2009

StrikerDown said:
I found this on ebay. It isn't an Albrecht :mecry: But the buy it now price seem decent. It's a Jacobs label keyless, seller says Manufacturer is Rohm. Italy??

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=180353728675

Albrecht seems to not only be a nice chuck but the ultimate. My wallet is kicking my A$$ right now with the constant hardware buys, do you think this is a good deal for an okay Chuck?

If your not going to buy it......I will

Mac

StrikerDown · May 6, 2009

cmacclel said:
If your not going to buy it......I will

Mac

Dang, it looks like someone just bought it!

StrikerDown · May 6, 2009

You guys are great Thanks for all of the opinions!

I still wonder about the Jacob's Ball bearing chucks in the larger sizes like 16N up to 20N? Will likes his does anybody have any other opinion? (bad experience)

PS: Chris, yes I bought that one, it looked like a steal!

wquiles · May 6, 2009

StrikerDown said:
You guys are great Thanks for all of the opinions!

I still wonder about the Jacob's Ball bearing chucks in the larger sizes like 16N up to 20N? Will likes his does anybody have any other opinion? (bad experience)

PS: Chris, yes I bought that one, it looked like a steal!

Mirage_Man (Brian) also has a Jacobs Ball Bearing Super Chuck, either the 14N or the same 16N that I have. Send him a PM and tell him to post here about his feedback

Will

wquiles · May 6, 2009

precisionworks said:
Albrecht is the best of the best, bar none. There are a few good copies, and a ton of poor copies, but even the best copy (Jacobs high torque-high precision keyless) will not grip as tightly as Albrecht.

During manufacturing, the shell and the hood are ground as a matched pair, and stay together through the rest of the process. The jaws, which look so simple, go through over 20 seperate machining operations. The spindle threads are first ground, then lapped together, to ensure maximum clamping power. After final assembly, every chuck is qualified for total runout with 4-6 different diameter test pins at two distinct locations on each pin. Then, a QC Inspector repeats the process with 4-6 different pins before approving the chuck for packaging.

Which is why they are the lowest cost keyless chuck - over time - and the most expensive to buy initially. Like a Kurt vise, this is a purchase you will never regret.

Barry, question: I have one of each (Jacobs Ball Bearing Super Chuck and the SPI Super Precision Keyless) and of course the Jacobs has a much stronger grip due to the leverage provided by the key, but my SPI has the spanner holes so you can also apply extra leverage (although of course defeating the whole point of being keyless!). Besides convenience, is there a good reason (reasons?) to select a keyless over a keyed drill chuck? Is one design inherently better and/or more accurate than the other?

Will

precisionworks · May 6, 2009

I still wonder about the Jacob's Ball bearing chucks in the larger sizes like 16N up to 20N?

The Super Chuck, either 14N or 16N, is a perfect lathe tailstock chuck. Great for both drilling & tapping on the lathe.

is there a good reason (reasons?) to select a keyless over a keyed drill chuck?

Keyless chucks are almost always seen on mills, keyed chucks are almost always used on lathes. On the mill, it's very fast to drill, chamfer, tap & move on to the next hole ... where you'll drill, chamfer & tap. Once you use a good keyless on the mill, you'll never want to use a keyed chuck again.

The lathe needs a chuck that grips as strongly in reverse as it does in forward, for backing taps out of holes. Keyed chucks work well, as they do not loosen under reverse torque.

StrikerDown · May 6, 2009

Awesome, Thanks guys. There are a few real nice 14, 16, 18N chucks on ebay, maybe I will get lucky on one!

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