I feel like weve reached peak LED for pocket torches. Batt/LED efficiency maxed out.

ev13wt

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Innovation will be seen in efficiancy of the drivers, as well as the leds. I am hoping for much better high cri leds.

I want to see a light that can switch between flood and throw with a simple mechanism that works. Mag lights are cool but hey, the beam looks like, well, a mag beam. :p

Control interfaces will not change much. A switch is a switch, a button a button and a control ring is a control ring (dimmer). Everything else is a fad or gimmick that would be cool but will fade away.

The ibm touch stick thing is cool, but you need practice to use it well. Forget it for gaming. An idea for the flashlight ui is cool, but its only for the living room or dedicated users. Most people will want a switch. Something simple is always best.

If you can make it simpler, then you have innovated.

I want to see a clicky that can do something like high momentary on, click for constant on in medium and when its on use the momentary for high. Complication of that: For constant on high / low twist head or have a dip switch under an access port cover. Low low is on/off by a completely separate button.

Or, combine a clicky with a short toogle sticking out the rear. Click on high, toggle momentary high, pull and set toggle for constant on low. Like car headlight controls type interface sort of.

I would also like to see a return to slide switches with momentary buttons. Rear clickies are cool and all, but a thumb slide control is really quite ergonomic.

Or a on off button, with a four way or two way ring around it, like cell phones used to have. Ok no maybe I'm getting carried away here.

:)
 
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Gryffin

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They're called 18350's. I haven't heard of any situations where the extra millimeter of length has gotten in the way of a proper fit; usually it's the diameter that causes incompatibility issues.

Hoo boy, do I beg to differ.

I bought me a whole bunch of those, thinking like you do that they'd be the bee's knees, extra capacity for those lights that could handle 8.4V. Boy, was I wrong. My Thrunite Scorpion V2, Lumintop TD15X, even my Dereelight CL1H V4 + Manafont drop-in, on none of them can I screw the tailcap down far enough to make contact.

So I agree with ledemitter, 18340 cells would be awesome, too bad nobody is making them...
 

Max_Power

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Color rendering for mass-produced LEDs has a long way to go as well. I'm excited about the Nichia 219 LEDs (package is compatible with XPG) that are becoming available in actual drop-ins right now.

92CRI at 4500K
reasonable efficiency (100-110 lumens at 350mA which is also about 1 Watt)
max current 1.5A - should be good for at least a few hundred emitter lumens at 3W power level. I'm estimating ~1 hour at 230 OTF lumens from 2 eneloops!

Now to get manufacturers to put them into all their lights / drop-ins. There's still plenty of room for improving efficiency.
 

ledmitter

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I've read about a dozen tech articles where they have doubled the capacity of LiIon cells in a lab environment by various different methods. I expect it will take about 3 yrs for that to make it to the marketplace though.

example:
http://cleantechnica.com/2011/05/26/li-ion-batteries-with-nearly-double-the-usual-energy-density/

Yeah, batteries need to lead the way along with the LED gamut.

For pocket torches: A single XML-U2 driven to 600 - 800 lumens running for up to an 1hr with today's 1X18650 or 2X16340 appears to be the best the industry can offer, at least for another year. The U2 can be stably driven harder, but battery and heat dissipation becomes the component bottleneck for the entire system. Unless those issues see marked improvements there's no point driving the LED near threshold parameters.

ZebraLight SC600
EagleTac G25C2
Klarus XT-11
Sunwayman T20CS
ThruNite T30

^^ Among several 2X(R)CR123 lights that represent a 'state-of-the-art' compromise for the technology available now. A "happy median" for lumens, run-time and heat dissipation in this class.

I have one of those lights knowing it won't be bested anytime soon. Even a simple battery mAh upgrade would carry the par forward. No need to sweat getting the newest "U3" iteration where a shave in gains would be practically negligible.

The whole system needs to advance.
 
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LEDninja

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So I figure how much more obsessed and motivated can we get for now. Nothing promising appears to be coming in the near future.
It took Mag over 20 years before they upgraded the 2D Maglite. It took a century before hybrid cars are trying to replace the internal combustion engine cars (and they have not done it yet). So your expectations of quantum leaps every half year is as unrealistic as a fresh graduate being made CEO of the company on day 2 on the job.
When the SSC-P7 came out the DX companies have malfunctioning flashlights out in 6 months. The first one that works properly arrived 18 months later (Fenix TK40)
Patience grasshopper!

A battery and some bulb technology doesn't seem to be benefiting by leaps-and-bounds as such under Moore's Law.
Re bulb technology:
There may be a need for less than 50,000 units of a more efficient LED for flashlight use (and not absolutely necessary.) With the 'ban' on incandescent light bulbs there is a need to find replacements for 100 million households in the US alone. Maybe some 1 billion bulbs total. Guess where the leaps and bounds improvement is happening. Hang around the fixed lighting forum and read the posts back 2 years.
5 years ago 25W equivalent LED household fixed lighting bulbs were $99.
2 years ago 40W equivalent LED household fixed lighting bulbs were $50.
Today 40W equivalent LED household fixed lighting bulbs are $10 and 60W equivalent LED household fixed lighting bulbs are $25.
Efficiency has gone from 25 OTF lumens per watt plug power to 94 OTF lumens per watt plug power.
And you can get them from Lowes or Home Depot. CSA approved or UL listed.
The latest technology improvements?
- Cree's proprietary G•SiC® substrate to deliver superior price/performance for high-intensity LEDs. These LED chips have a geometrically enhanced vertical chip structure to maximize light extraction efficiency. (Search diffractive light extracting optic on Cree's website)
- Quantum dot based phosphors can double lumen output. Unfortunately a patent battle effectively bankrupted both companies working on it.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ng-White-LED-Big-Breakthrough-5x-as-efficient
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?197482-The-first-LEDs-to-utilize-quantum-dots
-
Re battery technology:
- Graphene improves lithium-ion battery capacity and recharge rate by 10x.
http://www.extremetech.com/computin...ion-battery-capacity-and-recharge-rate-by-10x
- Again the big money is no longer made in 'flashlight' batteries. Since laptops, tablets and smart phones are getting thinner and thinner 18650 is too fat. 26650 is outright obese. And industrial customers (read power utilities) can afford millions of dollars per battery installation research goes:-
Stanford creates everlasting battery electrode & free, water-based electrolyte.
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...attery-electrode-free-water-based-electrolyte
"Wind and solar power plants are awesome, cost-effective, infinite-until-the-Sun-burns-out solutions — but when the sun goes in, or the wind dies down, you need a backup power source. Today, that's fossil and nuclear power — but thanks to a discovery made by Stanford University researchers, we might soon be able to use batteries...The grid wants huge, high-voltage batteries that can be as big as a house"
It not that there is no advances in battery research. The researchers are not that interested in flashlight sized batteries. Either skinny ones for portable devices. Or medium size ones for electric cars. Or huge ones for the grid.
 

127.0.0.1

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I think OP forgot about MIT and MITRE

battery technology and energy capacity is already far advanced way beyond anything seen here, it just isn't mass produced

LED and OLED tech that is being worked on will blow your mind

to get these advances in a consumer product is a matter of time.
 

ledmitter

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It took Mag over 20 years before they upgraded the 2D Maglite. It took a century before hybrid cars are trying to replace the internal combustion engine cars (and they have not done it yet). So your expectations of quantum leaps every half year is as unrealistic as a fresh graduate being made CEO of the company on day 2 on the job.
When the SSC-P7 came out the DX companies have malfunctioning flashlights out in 6 months. The first one that works properly arrived 18 months later (Fenix TK40)
Patience grasshopper!


Re bulb technology:
There may be a need for less than 50,000 units of a more efficient LED for flashlight use (and not absolutely necessary.) With the 'ban' on incandescent light bulbs there is a need to find replacements for 100 million households in the US alone. Maybe some 1 billion bulbs total. Guess where the leaps and bounds improvement is happening. Hang around the fixed lighting forum and read the posts back 2 years.
5 years ago 25W equivalent LED household fixed lighting bulbs were $99.
2 years ago 40W equivalent LED household fixed lighting bulbs were $50.
Today 40W equivalent LED household fixed lighting bulbs are $10 and 60W equivalent LED household fixed lighting bulbs are $25.
Efficiency has gone from 25 OTF lumens per watt plug power to 94 OTF lumens per watt plug power.
And you can get them from Lowes or Home Depot. CSA approved or UL listed.
The latest technology improvements?
- Cree's proprietary G•SiC® substrate to deliver superior price/performance for high-intensity LEDs. These LED chips have a geometrically enhanced vertical chip structure to maximize light extraction efficiency. (Search diffractive light extracting optic on Cree's website)
- Quantum dot based phosphors can double lumen output. Unfortunately a patent battle effectively bankrupted both companies working on it.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ng-White-LED-Big-Breakthrough-5x-as-efficient
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?197482-The-first-LEDs-to-utilize-quantum-dots
-
Re battery technology:
- Graphene improves lithium-ion battery capacity and recharge rate by 10x.

http://www.extremetech.com/computin...ion-battery-capacity-and-recharge-rate-by-10x
- Again the big money is no longer made in 'flashlight' batteries. Since laptops, tablets and smart phones are getting thinner and thinner 18650 is too fat. 26650 is outright obese. And industrial customers (read power utilities) can afford millions of dollars per battery installation research goes:-
Stanford creates everlasting battery electrode & free, water-based electrolyte.
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...attery-electrode-free-water-based-electrolyte
"Wind and solar power plants are awesome, cost-effective, infinite-until-the-Sun-burns-out solutions — but when the sun goes in, or the wind dies down, you need a backup power source. Today, that's fossil and nuclear power — but thanks to a discovery made by Stanford University researchers, we might soon be able to use batteries...The grid wants huge, high-voltage batteries that can be as big as a house"
It not that there is no advances in battery research. The researchers are not that interested in flashlight sized batteries. Either skinny ones for portable devices. Or medium size ones for electric cars. Or huge ones for the grid.

"The combined effect is an anode that can store 10 times more power (30,000 mAh instead of 3,000) and 10 times the charging speed (15 minutes instead of two hours). If you haven't already shuffled slightly further under your desk to hide your excitement, get this: the Northwestern battery, after 150 charge/discharge cycles, is also five times more effective than any lithium-ion battery currently on the market.

As always, we have to ask the question: When will this new tech find its way into a battery near you? Northwestern doesn't give a clear answer — it only goes on to say that the team is now working on improving the cathode and electrolyte. If we go on previous battery-related discoveries, though, and assuming this discovery can be repeated at an industrial scale, we might see week-long smartphone batteries within a couple of years."


^^ That was my take home message with that article. Hope Panasonic applies it. Good find :D

Wonder how they'll price gouge the advancement though. :D
 

TEEJ

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LOL

Every time someone says something to the effect that technology has run its course...history says we get to laugh at them.

In the 1800's a senator recommended we drop all funding for research, as obviously everything that can be invented has certainly already been invented.

Bill Gates, Woz, and a parade of others who've made statements to the same effect all are held to the light of history as being WRONG about advances.


No matter what present you are IN, its going to be in someone else's history. People in those "Presents" always suffer from the conceit that THEIR present is the pinnacle...and that all history must culminate NOW.

Trust me, in time, just like the 1993 LED was amazing THEN, and dim NOW, what we have NOW will be dim in the future too.

:D
 

ledmitter

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Messages
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LOL

Every time someone says something to the effect that technology has run its course...history says we get to laugh at them.

In the 1800's a senator recommended we drop all funding for research, as obviously everything that can be invented has certainly already been invented.

Bill Gates, Woz, and a parade of others who've made statements to the same effect all are held to the light of history as being WRONG about advances.


No matter what present you are IN, its going to be in someone else's history. People in those "Presents" always suffer from the conceit that THEIR present is the pinnacle...and that all history must culminate NOW.

Trust me, in time, just like the 1993 LED was amazing THEN, and dim NOW, what we have NOW will be dim in the future too.

:D

Cheers to that. Of course I'm not naive to think things will not improve in the long term. As for the short term... :shrug:

May check in for new happenings come autumn 2012.
 

EZO

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LOL

Every time someone says something to the effect that technology has run its course...history says we get to laugh at them.

In the 1800's a senator recommended we drop all funding for research, as obviously everything that can be invented has certainly already been invented.

Bill Gates, Woz, and a parade of others who've made statements to the same effect all are held to the light of history as being WRONG about advances.


No matter what present you are IN, its going to be in someone else's history. People in those "Presents" always suffer from the conceit that THEIR present is the pinnacle...and that all history must culminate NOW.

Trust me, in time, just like the 1993 LED was amazing THEN, and dim NOW, what we have NOW will be dim in the future too.

:D

Good post, I absolutely agree!

I've been trying for years to remember which 19th century idiot made that remark. As I recall, the entire quote included something to the effect that, "All scientific facts are already known!"
 

qwertyydude

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I hate touchscreen and sub-sub-menu navigation everything. It's the worst way to operate complex machinery. If you need proof, try driving a BMW with iDrive.
 

Samy

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I read an article earlier this year which stated that if battery technology had advanced as fast as pc's, then a car battery would currently be the size of a button cell.

Can you imagine having a keychain light that pumps out hundreds of amps? :)

Cheers
 

AnAppleSnail

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I read an article earlier this year which stated that if battery technology had advanced as fast as pc's, then a car battery would currently be the size of a button cell.

Can you imagine having a keychain light that pumps out hundreds of amps? :)

Cheers

...And fails a few times a week? (No, I kid. Computers are pretty stable these days.)
 

127.0.0.1

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I read an article earlier this year which stated that if battery technology had advanced as fast as pc's, then a car battery would currently be the size of a button cell.

Can you imagine having a keychain light that pumps out hundreds of amps? :)

Cheers

well, whoever wrote that failed the logic involved

pc's and chips need to move and store information, which can be done on an atomic scale and with
small voltages, light, or other methods

electric power delivery has hard limits on what materials can carry a certain load or amperage

the advances in battery tech are not 'how far can we shrink a battery'...the advances are 'how can we improve
the electron generating and storage surfaces' which is moving along rapidly with many different types of materials
and chemistry...

getting it to market is another matter
 

fyrstormer

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Hoo boy, do I beg to differ.

I bought me a whole bunch of those, thinking like you do that they'd be the bee's knees, extra capacity for those lights that could handle 8.4V. Boy, was I wrong. My Thrunite Scorpion V2, Lumintop TD15X, even my Dereelight CL1H V4 + Manafont drop-in, on none of them can I screw the tailcap down far enough to make contact.

So I agree with ledemitter, 18340 cells would be awesome, too bad nobody is making them...
Are you using IMR18350s or protected RCR18350s? The protected RCR18350s are actually more like 37mm instead of 35mm.
 

Gryffin

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Are you using IMR18350s or protected RCR18350s? The protected RCR18350s are actually more like 37mm instead of 35mm.

RCR, of course, since I'm after extra capacity, not high current. And yeah, they're waaaay longer than 35mm, 37 sounds about right.
 
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