I'm less than happy with Cree based lights

[Lobo]

Personally, I think ultra-powerful Cree lights are great! They're fun to play with and definitely blow away the unenlightened. But they have their place, and it's time more manufacturers realize that high output is not always the way to go.

The original Fenix L1P is still useful... so why not make a L1P-XR with extended runtime using a Cree, for instance? Why not upgrade lights with Cree to extend runtime rather than making them 30-minute powerhouses? Surefire realizes this with the E1L and E2L, and are bumping up the output marginally while extending the runtime by a LOT. The new L5 won't just be brighter, it'll have twice, maybe three times the runtime of the original LuxV model. Again, Surefire shows why they are at the top of the food chain with the thought they put into their lights.

Well, I dont want to state the obvious here, but that's why you have multiple output.
Which IMHO is almost a must on LEDs that are as bright as crees. On medium on L1D you get five and and half hours ruler flat regulation to 50% and slighty brighter than the L1P. What more could you ask for?
And 2hours on max/turbo on LxD is far from 30min. But youre maybe refering to other lights.
I do understand your point though. Simple straight forward lights like the L1P seems like a thing of the past. And I didnt even know there were multilevel lights or apreciated the need for it (and perhaps dont REALLY need it now either) before joining CPF. Those days just something that shined up my surroundings was enough. So I guess there are plenty of people who would love a L1P Cree with only extended runtime.

 

[Cydonia]

Well Al, I read what you had to say and I believe I know what you mean – even though I own no Cree lights, nor any fenix ones, or much of any new lights for that matter. From my researches I can sympathize with your diagnosis of the L2D CE. Even though I've never used one. How is that? By careful study of other peoples reviews, their comments and complaints, and most of all the dismal battery run time graphs on flashlightreviews.com which immediately made it known that this light was not for me. And so on with dozens of other flashlights of all manufactures from several continents.

Your experience with the Second Generation Arc AAA-P adds yet more weight to my mental "file" on this particular light. I've had my (mental) eye on it for some time now…
I subscribe to the less is more ideology, especially when it is packaged in a very well designed and thought out "fuselage" which one can carry near effortlessly in a pocket all day. The compact ruggedness, longevity and desirable beam qualities of some of the single cell US made lights is quite satisfactory for most, if not all, daily tasks… Multi modes are mostly not necessary for a sizable portion of users requirements.

It does appear that advertising and marketing structures demand new and ever increasing levels of sensational performance to drive their new products into "the hearts and minds" of potential customers. Most are out looking for something new to impress their peers with, so, the companies deliver upon this expectation with the current crop of products. And that's just fine by me. I'll choose other products however

 

[GeorgePaul]

...Maybe a PID with a CREE, twist on-dim, twist further, bright, lots of flood, minimal hotspot.

My (original) CR2 Ion with Cree works exactly like this.

Now I'm beginning to wonder if the design of the lights and/or the optics available to build them with has dictated they will never be very useful except where intense hotspot and long throw are all that's desired; ...

Certainly not.

..let's see what you carry in your pocket after the novelty of the latest toy wears off; which light it is you reach for a dozen times a day

I reach for my little Cree-based keychain light a lot. It's a keeper.

 

[HarveyRich]

As the saying goes, you can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all the people all of the time. Or, in contemp terms: different strokes for different folks.

Count me in the "love my l2d-ce" camp. Sure, there are annoying aspects to it, but the sidespill is great compared to incan lights, it's easy to start either in low or turbo mode by a quick turn of the bezel and, as you've pointed out, the amount of light at a distance is just terrific. Would I prefer to regular mode to start at medium like on the lod-ce--yes. Would I prefer it to be prettier--yes, would I prefer it to use Li-ions and really blast that light--sure. But, these are quibbles. To each his/her own opinion.

 

[pilou]

It seems to me that your experience is not generally based on Cree lights, but rather on Cree based Fenix lights.

 

[AlecGold]

I think it is a question of getting the right reflectors. My XR19-C (owke, it is a bit more expensive) works like a charm for me!
And I've had HDS's, SF's etc with lux I, III and V, so I've hade enough comparison.
Perhaps fenix used a wrong reflector, not keeping in mind that the Lux have a lambertian patern and Cree has a non-lambertian patern.

 

[Lobo]

... and most of all the dismal battery run time graphs on flashlightreviews.com which immediately made it known that this light was not for me.

:thinking:
Have you seen Chevrofreaks graphs? They are nothing but amazing! What kind of lights do you usually use???

 

[Pellidon]

I like the U2 "homage" (non clone marked unit) with the cree and the lop reflector. Good hot spot and decent throw. A little larger than the average Fenix or it's spinoffs. I popped a Seoul into a Dorcy tatical 1 watt unit and WOW what an improvement. It was and is direct drive and I have not had the guts to put primaries in it yet but with NIMH cells it is a great improvement over what it was.

 

[liquidsix]

Weuf! I thought you were going to say the LED itself sucked.

I have to agree that none of these manufacturers know what they're doing. Multistage clicking is horrid to begin with and has went way over board (strobe? WTF!?).

A good light should have a selector ring, and possibly a focusable spot.

 

[savumaki]

My previous EDC was a Fenix L1P and I moved to a P1 which is a VAST improvement (for me) as an EDC and has done everything I've required. Frankly I don't need or want a cree for that purpose; particularily after reading a LOT of semi negative comments that suggest the cree is merely substituted for a luxeon which I don't think is the correct approach.

I have several SF E based lights that I would like to try cree in, when someone finds the right 'magic' combination of parts. In the meantime I continue in 'mistaken' belief that brighter is not always better.

 

[easilyled]

Because of the narrower beam-angle for the Cree led, small lights have
deeper reflectors and this creates a relatively spot-intensive beam.

If you want a floodier beam but with very bright output, small Seoul-P4 based
lights would probably suit you better. The beam angle from the Seoul is
the same as the luxeon but its twice as bright for the same current.

Deal Extreme sell quite a few of these.

EngrPaul also mods lights to upgrade the emitter with Seoul-P4.

 

[GeorgePaul]

In the meantime I continue in 'mistaken' belief that brighter is not always better.

You are definitely not mistaken.

 

[Lit Up]

Truth be told, for my needs, I could take my Fenix Civictor, my MagLED 2C and Streamlight 1xAA (For low light tasks) and call it a day.

All the purchases I see being done this year are a couple of dorcy/sears drop-ins for a coleman and rayovac industrial (love that bettery meter on the side) I have and maybe one of the seoul drop-ins for the 2C.

 

[cave dave]

I for one have been dismayed by the manufactures going to smaller and smaller spill angles. It used to be pretty standard for flashlights to have a total spill angle of at least 90 degrees. This is very useful. You point the flashlight several yards in front of you and the spill area lights up you feet. Makes it easy to get around outside at night.

I understand why the manufactures do it though. Its showroom salesmanship. Make the reflector deeper and you can project more light forward. This gives the light a stronger hotspot, makes for more impressive beamshots as well. The fact that you loose functionality is irrelevant. Functionality doesn't sell, throw sells, bright spots on walls sells! Does any major reviewer even mention the spill angle or give a side beamshot?

Whats the beam angle of a Minimag LED? something like 50 deg? I don't own one, I don't own any crees either. I don't think there is anything wrong with the emitter, I just haven't been impressed with the implementation.

Fenix could fix the PWM flicker problem by increasing the cycle rate and Miller mods manages to get 3 flicker free levels in an LOP without PWM.

 

[Pax et Lux]

The Elektro Lumens Lucidus 2AA has caught my eye. . . I must say more than the Fenix L2D CE, from what I've read here. It may not be the solution for the original poster, Al, as I don't know how floody it is; it could also be a little shorter, it must be said.

The Lucidus uses the Cree collimator, which seems to result in a better beam than reflectors. At least, when comparing lights of similar price range.

Does anyone have experience of both lights?

I'm not trying to hijack this thread. I was just wondering if people with more knowledge - and more lights - could provide information about Cree options. I'm underwhelmed by the (descriptions of) the above Fenix lights, but can't afford to fill up a box with uninspiring lights.

 

[enLIGHTenment]

A lot of these criticisms are right on target. Most of the current crop of XR-E and Seoul lights lack usability and are more like gimmicky toys than serious tools. These lights combine awkward and overly complicated UIs with poor beam patterns. Currently, the usability drawbacks far outweigh the benefits of the XR-E die. There's little point in buying onto the XR-E bandwagon until lights designed with usability in mind appear on the market. The LF2 is a good step in the right direction but there's still a long way to go.

 

[jlomein]

The thread title should be changed to "I'm less than happy with FENIX Cree lights". All of the OP's complaints are about the Fenix Cree line, such as the user interface, and the tight hotspot with no spill.

I have a Cree based Orb Raw Ns. The hot spot blends nicely into the flood beam, and the spill light is plenty bright and useable. It all depends on the engineering around the LED.

 

[yellow]

well, beam on L1D and L2D can be changed a bit, as anyone reading here should know (less ringy with less throw but more flood)

imho the ONLY way to make a multilevel is starting low then getting to high. If one actually uses/"needs" his light in the night on business behalves, it will mostly be a low level job. Burning oneself through the eyes just with spill while switching down is a no-go.
There is even the turbo option incorporated for the "instant-max-ppl".

Agree on the body comments.


PS: (I would like the low to be much more low. Say levels of a current draw from batt (L1D) of 80, 500-600, 1 A, and 1.2 A on turbo. Not 160, 850, 1.25, 1.25 (turbo) as is)

 

[2xTrinity]

imho the ONLY way to make a multilevel is starting low then getting to high. If one actually uses/"needs" his light in the night on business behalves, it will mostly be a low level job. Burning oneself through the eyes just with spill while switching down is a no-go.
There is even the turbo option incorporated for the "instant-max-ppl".

My almost 4 year old photon freedom had a better interface than any high-power LED flashlight I've ever seen. Continuously variable brightness. Clicking and hold the button when the light is off cause it to start off dim and get brighter gradually. Click-and-hold when the light is on causes it to get dimmer. Simple click turns the light on at maximum brightness. This interface is potentially much more useful on a Cree than a 5mm LED, too, as generally I found myself wanting to use max setting most of the time on the Photon, and less than max most of the time on my Cree flashlights (except for showing off )

 

[wakibaki]

I find this stuff about 'too small a spot' and 'brighter is not always better' a bit precious, when it's so easy to stick a bit of translucent tape (Scotch Magic) on the lens or even spray it with a bit of hairspray, which I'm sure all you ladies keep in your handbags. Brighter is always better when it's for the same power.

w