Interesting conversation with a Streamlight rep

[bkumanski]

I have been debating between getting Streamlight's Stinger HP led, Poly LED, and regular Stinger for use in out Detective Bureau (I of course have my own lights). I have an HP I recently purchased and must say, it is a thrower and can really reach out and touch someone. I am, however, giving it to my dad for use in spotting animals at long range on his ranch... The beam is just too tight (can something be too well focused:shrug:?) and it doesn't give enough spill for our uses. So I called out local Streamlight rep to ask about beams and reflectors, and why the three models all have different lumen ratings, as there is no explanation on the factsheets. I knew one had an OP reflector, but wasn't sure which one.

First, they advised all three lihgts have the same LED and driver (explains the similar runtime graphs). She said the lumen difference (140 for stinger, 180 for poly and 200 for HP) was because of the reflector difference. Now, I thought the Lux (throw) was the result of the reflector, and Lumens rating was total light from the LED itself. Is this misleading? Shouldn't all three have the same brightness, just focused differently? The regular stinger seems to have the beam we want, but 140-200 is a pretty significant total brightness difference (25%). Are they measuring this different than others? Also, they do not give Lux figures, but candella (which I know is also a unit of throw). As expected, the candella increases with the lumens. Do OTF lumen ratings change with the reflector? Could this be the lumen difference?

I guess my overall question is: Is Streamlight advertising their lumens differently than others and are these figures misleading, as compared to other manufacturers?

 

[JAS]

My experience has been that investigators are not going to like the HP head, thus I would suggest you simply go with a Streamlight Stinger LED. Before I was issued a Streamlight Stinger LED I kept my own Pelican 7060 in the car. I think the 7060 out throws the regular Stinger LED, but for the things that most investigators are doing, I think a regular Stinger LED is the way to go. (These are sport coat and tie detectives I suspect, or is it something like Fugitive Task Force? For fugitive work I would push for the HP head.)

 

[Bullzeyebill]

Well, the HP model has a larger, smoother reflector compared to the regular Stinger, and should produce more lumens than the smaller, medium orange peel type reflector of the Stinger. Also, the smaller reflector of the regular Stinger will produce more spill, and less lux, as you have noticed.

Bill

 

[Gunner12]

Well, the HP model has a larger, smoother reflector compared to the regular Stinger, and should produce more lumens than the smaller, medium orange peel type reflector of the Stinger. Also, the smaller reflector of the regular Stinger will produce more spill, and less lux, as you have noticed.

Bill

Lumen is total output. Lux is throw. So are you saying that a 1 lumen laser actually has more lumen then a 1000w flood light?

If Streamlight is indeed rating their lumen ratings by throw, then they are doing it wrong.

An OP reflector is less efficient then a smooth reflector, but the difference shouldn't be that big.

 

[Owen]

I doubt Bill needs a lecture on what lumens are and aren't, and believe his point is that the combination of greater surface area and more reflective surface of the larger polished reflector enable it to transmit more light from the same bulb or LED than a less efficient reflector, and that it will therefore put more lumens out the front with the same source.

 

[Bullzeyebill]

He wants less a less throwly light, more spill light than the HP Stinger LED, so yes, he gets less lux, but more spill with regular Stinger LED. Yes, I do have to agree with you that 60 lumens difference is quite extreme. Rep is leaving something out and probably does not know what that is.

Bill

 

[bkumanski]

Lumen is total output. Lux is throw. So are you saying that a 1 lumen laser actually has more lumen then a 1000w flood light?

If Streamlight is indeed rating their lumen ratings by throw, then they are doing it wrong.

An OP reflector is less efficient then a smooth reflector, but the difference shouldn't be that big.

That's what I was thinking. How can the reflector and focus change the total lumen output of the light? I thought it affected Lux (or candella).

 

[Bullzeyebill]

That's what I was thinking. How can the reflector and focus change the total lumen output of the light? I thought it affected Lux (or candella).

A very heavy OP, compared to a smooth reflector, same flashlight, will show some out the front light output losses. I do not have the examples handy, but have been paying attention through the years, here on CPF, to threads that have looked at this relationship, and have provided data to support that. Extreme example? Use a reflector with a black coating, and compare differences visually.

Bill

 

[kramer5150]

Its possible some of the lights and bezels obstruct more light than others. Its also possible some of the reflectors absorb more light than others. I would also question their measurement methods... whether or not it was done in a calibrated sphere, and if the measurement procedures were EXACTLY the same for each light.

You also can't rule out the effects of cell type and chemistry... even with the same exact driver/LED/reflector. Heck even within the same cell chemistry and size there are HUGE variations. IMR 18650 for example deliver 2.65A in my modded 6P. While my worst 18650 cells (Sony greens/blues... which were tossed long ago) barely eek out 1A. My Sanyo reds pump out 2.3A.

 

[bkumanski]

A very heavy OP, compared to a smooth reflector, same flashlight, will show some out the front light output losses. I do not have the examples handy, but have been paying attention through the years, here on CPF, to threads that have looked at this relationship, and have provided data to support that. Extreme example? Use a reflector with a black coating, and compare differences visually.

Bill

I understand this, but the funny part is the 185 lumen polystinger is the one with the OP and the regular stinger has SMO! Something is missing for sure. It's not really that big of a dal in reality as we will ultimately choose the light which works best for us (Streamlight is sending a regional rep to give us samples to play with for a week or so), but trying to make a decision based on their information seems to be impossible and misleading as to which is brighter, dimmer, floodier (not really a word I know), etc. Reading the descriptions one would assume the HP is the brightest because of these values, but it really just is the throwiest (also not a word I'm aware of) and the stinger is the floodiest, not the brightest and dimmest.

 

[:)>]

It is not unheard of to get a person that doesn't know too much about their products manning the phones. She probably got some stuff mixed up. I wouldn't place too much stock in what she said.

The new Streamlight lights look great and I would love them if they could take primaries as well as rechargeables.

 

[tekguy]

I have been debating between getting Streamlight's Stinger HP led, Poly LED, and regular Stinger for use in out Detective Bureau (I of course have my own lights). I have an HP I recently purchased and must say, it is a thrower and can really reach out and touch someone. I am, however, giving it to my dad for use in spotting animals at long range on his ranch... The beam is just too tight (can something be too well focused:shrug:?) and it doesn't give enough spill for our uses. So I called out local Streamlight rep to ask about beams and reflectors, and why the three models all have different lumen ratings, as there is no explanation on the factsheets. I knew one had an OP reflector, but wasn't sure which one.

First, they advised all three lihgts have the same LED and driver (explains the similar runtime graphs). She said the lumen difference (140 for stinger, 180 for poly and 200 for HP) was because of the reflector difference. Now, I thought the Lux (throw) was the result of the reflector, and Lumens rating was total light from the LED itself. Is this misleading? Shouldn't all three have the same brightness, just focused differently? The regular stinger seems to have the beam we want, but 140-200 is a pretty significant total brightness difference (25%). Are they measuring this different than others? Also, they do not give Lux figures, but candella (which I know is also a unit of throw). As expected, the candella increases with the lumens. Do OTF lumen ratings change with the reflector? Could this be the lumen difference?

I guess my overall question is: Is Streamlight advertising their lumens differently than others and are these figures misleading, as compared to other manufacturers?

this may be off topic, but have you thought about using a diffuser on a hp light. this gives you best of both worlds, throw and flood

 

[bkumanski]

this may be off topic, but have you thought about using a diffuser on a hp light. this gives you best of both worlds, throw and flood

No, then there is no spot at all. An OP reflector, slightly defocused would be perfect. With the deepness of the reflector, even an OP could throw, and a little defocus would make the beam a little wider (Not too much, though). I tried loosening the head to adjust focus, unfortunately I need to go the other way to defocus. Lowering the Led in the reflector makes for a hideous beam...