Iowa's ethanol economy, The Craze for maize

[moonfish]

Considering what's been put forward in the previous posts, corn wastes the husks, the huge stalks, the cob, the cellulose on the outside of the kernel, and most of the kernel except the starch that's buried within each teeny kernel.

That was intuitively what I was afraid of.

Just considering what a stalk of corn would extract from the land to grow to full size and the energy to make its fertilizer, water it, etc, it seems like insanity to use corn, not to mention to delimit CORN as the sole source for our ethanol production.

But I imagine we can count on one hand the number of DC politicians who weren't "afraid" of science classes in school. It might just be lobbying money, but I suspect there's something in the ignorance that causes some/many serious problems in legislation.

The rest of the corn plant goes back into the soil and becomes part of it. I see the emphasis on that being bad but completely don't understand it? It is considered good for the soil as well as reducing erosion if they are left on top overwinter.

 

[binky]

The rest of the corn plant goes back into the soil and becomes part of it. I see the emphasis on that being bad but completely don't understand it? It is considered good for the soil as well as reducing erosion if they are left on top overwinter.

I'm such a suburbanite that I didn't know the rest of the stuff went back into the soil, but of course that makes sense. (I've got my own ignorance of farming to deal with here.) Shame on me since I went to college in central Ohio and trained for cross-country sports by running by all those fields. They just smelled like pig poop and I didn't notice the other fertilizing going on.

What I meant about wasteful is that we're growing these huge plants, which have enormous amounts to them that isn't being used for the production of ethanol yet that's what we chose. Wouldn't it make sense to choose a plant that yields greater density of convertible energy? For example, if the gov is going to choose a food crop I'd wonder why not the humble potato or indeed the sugar cane as mentioned in a previous post?

 

[moonfish]

You have to dig potatos out of the ground. Sugarcane doesn't grow in Iowa.

Corn is a commodity. There is security in the mass availability of it. You can store it. I don't know what the exact number is but record corn crops keep coming in around 180 bushels an acre or so. 640 acres in a square mile. Something like 50# in a bushel. It seems like more if you are hauling it yourself.

 

[moonfish]

Actually the sick part to me is the corn price is being driven up. It messes with the whole livestock industry and it is driving land prices up a lot. Iowa is way low in avg income like #48 or some ridiculous low place like that but the land prices are going up up up.

A lot of people dislike the subsidy but the price of corn was subsidized before.

 

[binky]

You have to dig potatos out of the ground. Sugarcane doesn't grow in Iowa.

We don't seem to be communicating well enough in this forum environment, so I'm going to call it quits here.

 

[ikendu]

Here is my web page with a draft document on ethanol...

http://www.itsgood4.us/edraft1.htm

 

[cy]

just read your draft... no question higher corn prices is good for farmers. not the most efficient way to go, but at least it's going....

building feedlots next to distillers so corn waste is feed wet directly to cattle, looks to be a win, win situation.

I'm running a cummins turbo diesel truck in tulsa, with a metro area of just over 1/2 million folks. NO bio diesel or E85 available locally.

if I had a ready source of bio-diesel. no question I'd at least giving it a fair shot. been contemplating getting set up to process waste fats to bio-diesel or run SVO. main issue is a proper place to process and deciding if I want to go through the hassles of collecting waste fats.

 

[ikendu]

looks like there is a biodiesel distributer at:

Frost Oil Co.
1201 Central Street
Poteau, OK 74953

http://www.biodiesel.org/buyingbiodiesel/distributors/

Biodiesel is less convenient than burning petroleum at this time.

The good thing is, you can usually get great mileage in a diesel. I have to go out of my way (about 30 minutes) to get my biodiesel but I buy extra so that I only have to go about once every 6 weeks. It is very safe to store and transport so that part isn't a problem.

Making it yourself requires a committment that many folks wouldn't want to take on. Restaurants will give their oil for free, but they'd also like you to pick it up every week so then can cancel their oil pickup contract. Many people wouldn't want that endless treadmill of picking up the free oil.

There is a great book on making your own:

Biodiesel: Basics and Beyond by William Kemp

 

[TedTheLed]

on TV last night I saw a show on "greasecar" -- they used oil from restuarants as they drove cross country, just filtered it first with equipment carried in the trunk. one guy just used a sock..

http://greasecar.com/faq.cfm
"Q What type of restaurants tend to have the best oil?
A
Asian food restaurants and bar & grilles tend to use pure canola or soy oil which has a lower gel point and will be easier to collect and filter. As a basic rule of thumb, higher quality restaurants will use higher quality oil; most fast food restaurants use hydrogenated oil."

 

[DM51]

Doesn't it stink out the car, filling up with used cooking oil like that?

 

[TedTheLed]

the exhaust smells like french fries..
as for the unburned product (which is different from biodiesel which contains gas and other solvents and additves..)

Q Will oil go bad?
A Vegetable oil is a compostable material and will go rancid if exposed to the elements or subject to bacterial contamination. Filtering and storing your oil in a sealed container in a cool place will extend its life. There are additives called biocides that can be mixed with the oil to prevent bacteria from growing.
http://greasecar.com/faq.cfm

 

[CouchTater]

I believe ethanol as a transportation fuel is going to be little more than a transfer of wealth exercise until they figure out how to pump it thru pipelines without "arteriosclerosis" happening.

Even then, the invisible elephant in the parlour is the issue of water consumption. Like it or not, the US population continues to grow faster than we are reducing our per capita consumption. So we are going to need more road fuel in gross. If we try to address that need with biofuels we will do some real ecological damage due to increased water taken from rivers and aquifers.

And I disagree with the claim that farmers aren't well represented in politics. The farm lobby is tremendously powerful. Hard to find another industry with such pervasive subsidies, price controls, and use of public goods (BLM grazing lands in particular) for private enterprise.

 

[cy]

Poteau is 127 miles from me and a tiny town. vs Tulsa is second largest metro (1/2 million) in Okla. you would think larger metro would have bio-diesel?

looks like there is a biodiesel distributer at:

Frost Oil Co.
1201 Central Street
Poteau, OK 74953

 

[TedTheLed]

"...Q Is this Biodiesel?
A No. Biodiesel is a chemically engineered fuel, including vegetable oil, petroleum diesel, catalyst chemicals and some form of ester alcohols. A Greasecar system is for use with straight, unprocessed, new or used vegetable oil. .."

Can biodiesel cars use straight vegetable oil like the greasecar?
Greasecar drivers say there is enough used vege oil around to 'fill swimming pools...'

Darryl (no relation ) Hannah drives her vege-oil car (a Toureg diesel) all around here and likes to show off how she licks the 'gas' cap.. true story.
*

contact:
Greasecar Vegetable Fuel Systems
PO Box 60508
Florence, MA 01062
413.529.0013
[email protected]

 

[ikendu]

Darryl (no relation ) Hannah drives her vege-oil car (a Toureg diesel) all around here...

I thought she had a 1983 El Camino

http://www.sustainablestyle.org/sass/07/darylhannah.html

 

[ikendu]

...the invisible elephant in the parlour is the issue of water consumption. ...If we try to address that need with biofuels we will do some real ecological damage due to increased water taken from rivers and aquifers.

The (6-page, ugh) piece I wrote about ethanol mentions the little known fact that water is consumed to create gasoline; about 2 gallons of potable water per gallon of gasoline. This is about the same as a good ethanol plant.

It is used in the "hydro-cracking" part of a refinery where hydrogen is used as a feedstock to "crack" and re-assemble petroleum into gasoline.

We use 140 BILLION gallons of gasoline every year, just imagine all of the potable water that represents.

 

[TedTheLed]

interesting article..especially this;

KG: How do you feel about mixing biodiesel with regular petroleum diesel?

DH: It's not uncommon to do blends, but I kind of believe in using 100 percent biodiesel, and not mixing it with petroleum unless it's necessary for cold weather or something like that, and you don't have an engine block heater.

I love the fact that biodiesel has the potential to support farmers, especially the family farms. I'm not so thrilled about the factory farming movement in our country and also pesticides – you don't want to cut off your nose to spite your face. Who cares about burning cleaner-burning fuel if you're going to be poisoning the soil and the air with toxins and pesticides? So organic farming practices are something that, to me, are interlinked with the idea of using biodiesel.."

as for the type of car, maybe she has both.. a friend of mine takes care of her organic garden and also broadcasts an internet show on organic gardening from her place every week, so I guess he'd know, she may drive a '83 El Camino, but she licks the Toureg.. I dunno, maybe the Toureg belongs to her lawyer..

 

[CouchTater]

The (6-page, ugh) piece I wrote about ethanol mentions the little known fact that water is consumed to create gasoline; about 2 gallons of potable water per gallon of gasoline. This is about the same as a good ethanol plant.

Its the growing part that is the concern. The vast majority of remaining farmable land in the US is relatively arid. If things get really insane we could go to nuke-powered desalinization plants on the coasts and pump the water inland, but that would be crazy expensive.