Oj bit the big one

Monocrom

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That's your experience as a Christian, from the inside looking out. You'll get a different experience from the outside. Whether is judgement, passive aggressive comments about "praying for you", assumptions that God is the only thing that can, people who would never know one is an Atheist unless it came up in a conversation and they'll turn on you in an instant.

My best friend growing up was Albanian and since he has dark skin and is a foreigner, he got both hate and pity, because people assumed he was a Muslim, when in fact he was a Christian. Other non Christians I have spoken to speak of similar experiences. Then there's the pettiness amongst people of different denominations I'd hear in different conversations like "she's a good person, but she married a Methodist".

Well, good on you if you're not that kind of person, but sadly, the world isn't like that. That's why a lot of Atheists act they way they do, they're pushing back on a society that pushes them.
I'm sorry, but that's your perspective and outlook. My entire life, I've been mistaken for literally every race under the Sun. You name it, it has happened! Yes, including Muslim. I wear my crucifix on the inside of my shirt.

Number of times I've been mistaken for Muslim? = Countless!
Mistaken for Muslim and treated like garbage because of it? = 0.

I'm talking by everyone around me. Both Christians and non-Christians. Days and weeks, and months after 9/11; went on with my daily routine as usual. Received no hatred, no threats, nothing!

I'm sorry about your Albanian friend. But my personal experiences being mistaken for Muslim is the very opposite of his. Don't know what to tell you. My experiences are not matching your outlook on Christians, and how they treat others. Yes, I'm on the inside looking out. But when you get mistaken for Muslim, that means I've been on the outside looking in.

Literally the only time I've ever gotten hatred was during my last year of Little League in which another teams lead pitcher thought I was Hindu. Found out about his hatred at the very end of the season. Punk wasn't even brave enough to confront me face-to-face. Oh well, I was a terrible player. Each time I faced him, I got hit by his pitches. My batting average was only .117 but my On-base percentage was .550 (meaning over half the time I came up to bat, I got on first base). I didn't care. Unlike him, I was a team-player. Yeah, our League only consisted of 5 other teams. I might have had the worst batting average in the league, but I had the best On-base percentage. But yeah, literally the only time. And, not being mistaken for Muslim.

Edit: Typo.
 
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Monocrom

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Isn't it crazy to think that if generations of parents didn't force their children to go to church when they were young, there would be none of this belief in god BS that's going around in and on places like this thread?
Well, nowadays we're seeing the results of what happens when for a couple of generations or longer.... parents stop dragging their children to church. What happens when they stop raising them with strong Christian values and beliefs. Not just the horrendous moral decay going on in America (which, if it was just that; would in some cases be tolerable). But, the absolute violence and Anarchy that keeps breaking out.

School shootings didn't exist back when parents were dragging their children off to church en masse. Was a time when children brought pocket knives to school and it was perfectly normal. Used them to sharpen their pencils. Having been raised with strong Christian values, none of those children even thought about stabbing another student.

A time when teachers were looked up to and respected. And that respect was earned because you didn't have lonely female teachers f**king their underaged, child students. And, you didn't have the criminal court system giving those disgusting pedos a pass or a slap on the wrist simply because on their birth certificates, the "F" box was marked off instead the "M."

A time when children and young adults weren't horribly confused about what gender they are, to the point of basically having developed a mental disorder that modern-day society doesn't just tolerate but actively encourages.

Yeah, today we are seeing the results of what happens to society when multiple generations of parents did in fact stop dragging their children off to church, and stopped raising them with strong Christian values and beliefs. Look around you, today. Your wish was granted.
 

defloyd77

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Post 9/11, oof, that was a rough time for my friend and even me for being friends with him everyone started calling him Alsama Bin Laden. Granted that was in highschool, but even outside of school he'd get dirty looks and told to go back to where he came from.

As for the state of society today, that has nothing to do with a lack of religion. How many wars and crusades have been waged over religion? People really think religion automatically makes people better and those who aren't religious have absolutely no way of knowing right from wrong and that's just asinine.

What's lacking are family values and actual empathy for others. It deeply concerns me that more people say they do or don't do things because of the fear of God and not because of genuine empathy for their fellow man.
 

Monocrom

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Post 9/11, oof, that was a rough time for my friend and even me for being friends with him everyone started calling him Alsama Bin Laden. Granted that was in highschool, but even outside of school he'd get dirty looks and told to go back to where he came from.
But no one violently attacked him or you. That's how it was in America. A word, a dirty look; who cares. The physical aspect is important.
As for the state of society today, that has nothing to do with a lack of religion. How many wars and crusades have been waged over religion? People really think religion automatically makes people better and those who aren't religious have absolutely no way of knowing right from wrong and that's just asinine.
We can go back to ancient times, but you're completely dismissing what modern-day Christianity has turned into. When was the last time a Christian leader started up a Holy war? When was the last time Muslim leaders have started up a Holy war? How long has the current one been going on in the middle east? A few months now?

Modern-day Christianity has come a long way. Modern-day Islam? Not even remotely. Christians don't murder newspaper or magazine editors for drawing images of Jesus. Muslims do murder them for drawing images of Mohammed. (Founder and owner of Noodler's Ink created the Charlie fountain pen and to this day gives it out for free with his "Heart of Darkness" large ink bottle as a protest against fanatical Muslims. Not even a cheap fountain pen. Actually has an ebonite feed.)
What's lacking are family values and actual empathy for others. It deeply concerns me that more people say they do or don't do things because of the fear of God and not because of genuine empathy for their fellow man.
What you're describing is BASIC human psychology. As a kid and a teenager, I used to believe that all people are basically good. That humanity is a noble race.... Yeah, reality hit me hard years later when I realized the horrifying truth! People are not basically good! Humanity is not noble. People and humanity as a whole are selfish, greedy, disgusting, and money-hungry! If it was legal to sell grand-parents into slavery, a huge chunk of the population would do it. That's reality!

Family values, empathy?? Based on what? Humanity's own good nature? You realistically expect it to be based on THAT myth?! Someone once said that if God didn't exist, we'd have to create him. Realistically so people would not give in to their violent, base, animalistic, urges. And, so that they'd behave!
 

defloyd77

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But no one violently attacked him or you. That's how it was in America. A word, a dirty look; who cares. The physical aspect is important.

We can go back to ancient times, but you're completely dismissing what modern-day Christianity has turned into. When was the last time a Christian leader started up a Holy war? When was the last time Muslim leaders have started up a Holy war? How long has the current one been going on in the middle east? A few months now?

Modern-day Christianity has come a long way. Modern-day Islam? Not even remotely. Christians don't murder newspaper or magazine editors for drawing images of Jesus. Muslims do murder them for drawing images of Mohammed. (Founder and owner of Noodler's Ink created the Charlie fountain pen and to this day gives it out for free with his "Heart of Darkness" large ink bottle as a protest against fanatical Muslims. Not even a cheap fountain pen. Actually has an ebonite feed.)

What you're describing is BASIC human psychology. As a kid and a teenager, I used to believe that all people are basically good. That humanity is a noble race.... Yeah, reality hit me hard years later when I realized the horrifying truth! People are not basically good! Humanity is not noble. People and humanity as a whole are selfish, greedy, disgusting, and money-hungry! If it was legal to sell grand-parents into slavery, a huge chunk of the population would do it. That's reality!

Family values, empathy?? Based on what? Humanity's own good nature? You realistically expect it to be based on THAT myth?! Someone once said that if God didn't exist, we'd have to create him. Realistically so people would not give in to their violent, base, animalistic, urges. And, so that they'd behave!

I honestly don't remember if he got into any fights because of it. I guess if only the physical aspect is what matters, you really shouldn't get upset at people disparaging your religion online.

You really think people are going to change because of religion? Why are the majority of serial killers Christian? There are proportionally more Christians in prison than Atheists. Countries with less religion have less crime. Catholic priests. I don't even have to explain that one for everyone to know what I'm talking about. Religion isn't going to magically make a bad person good and history has proven that.

"Someone once said that if God didn't exist, we'd have to create him." What makes you think they already haven't? How many religions and gods have there been since the beginning of man? Too many to count, who knows how many undocumented ones existed before Christianity. So all of those that existed before and since your version of God were all wrong, but out of 4,200 different religions (Google's number) your version is the be all and end all?

I pity the fact that you don't seem to know what empathy is though. Maybe Atheists should avoid trying to disprove religious people, who knows what kind of lunatic they might become if they stop believing in eternal damnation.
 

Fuzzywuzzies

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Aaaaaand down she goes. Bye bye thread, bye bye online 'friendships'.
Instead of getting offended and tearing at each other, couldn't we all just meet in person and have a good chat over a cuppa or a beer or something? Anything? :grin2:
 

defloyd77

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Aaaaaand down she goes. Bye bye thread, bye bye online 'friendships'.
Instead of getting offended and tearing at each other, couldn't we all just meet in person and have a good chat over a cuppa or a beer or something? Anything? :grin2:

I don't even think there are mods to make thread go bye bye, but this thread has veered too far off topic. I will no longer contribute to that.

Getting back on the topic of OJ, has anyone here actually read that book of his?
 

Hooked on Fenix

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Ok. A lot to correct here. Religion doesn't magically make a person good. A personal relationship with Jesus Christ improves a person's life over time through a process called sanctification. It starts with accepting Christ, turning away from sin, and trying to make amends for past mistakes. That's called repentance. All of this only works if you are committed to the entire process which lasts a lifetime. There are plenty who fall short or fail. Don't lump sinners who became Christians, Christians who fell back into sin, and new believers who are weak in their faith together. Everyone's a hypocrite and a sinner, but some are trying harder than others. You should know someone's a Christian by how they love one another.

Second, about other religions, name one religion where an actual person died, was buried, then rose again with witnesses who were killed for spreading the news of the events never denying their testimony. Pretty much all of the world's other religions are false religions meant to lead people astray. This started at the Tower of Babel with Nimrod, his wife Semiramis, and their son Tammuz. That was the original Mother Earth religion, worshipping God's creation instead of God. Mormons practice some of this religion today making funerary cakes for Tammuz. Islam flipped God sacrificing his son for our sins as in the Bible to people having to sacrifice their son (in jihad) for Allah for the sins of 72 family members. Don't tell me it's a religion of peace. Anyone not killing themselves in a suicide attack is pooling their money to the Martyrs fund to pay the families of the deceased for killing Jews.

Now as to morality existing apart from God, by what grounds would you be able to tell someone something is wrong? The laws in the U.S. and England are founded on moral principals in the Bible. It says don't kill, don't steal, don't lie, don't commit adultery, etc. I have heard gay people say, "Whatever happens in the privacy of one's own home between two consenting adults is nobody's business". The problem is in their statement they made a moral distinction of 4 qualifiers: it has to be in private, between only two people, it must be consensual, and they must be adults. Once you take the God of the Bible out of the equation you have no moral grounds to require those four things. Under Shariah Law, women have no rights, a man can have more than one wife, they can be underage, and rape is allowed.

As for Atheism, many don't base this on science. If every observance in nature pointed an atheist to God, they would still reject God. It's a matter of the heart. For whatever reason, they may hate God (they may blame him for a loss of a loved one or never had a loving father, etc.) or just want to be left alone to do what seems right in their own eyes. Every atheist has their own reason for rejecting God.

If you remove any semblance of morality from society there would be no empathy. I knew a pastor with atheist parents. They told him people should be able to do anything they want as long as it's not hurting anybody. He decided to teach them a lesson. The Dad called him later saying someone stole his car. He was pissed. The son asked , "Well did he hurt anybody?". It was the son who moved his father's car.
 

KITROBASKIN

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Raggie do not feel bad about creating this thread. You, like many others, apparently loathed that person who is no longer alive. Seems like the premise of this thread is recognizing mortality and dealing with it.

Religion seems at least partly, a response to the question of mortality. Perhaps also, religion is an avenue to deal with hate and injustice.

Members talking about their life experiences can help themselves and others, right? Hopefully friendships brought to light by flashlight discussions can be resilient enough to weather these challenging issues.

There is a concept in the Bible about 'ears to hear, eyes to see'. Is this not playing out right in front of us?

Thankfully we can discuss this. It happened when Kelly/Sasha/Greta owned this forum.
 

letschat7

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Hopefully friendships brought to light by flashlight discussions can be resilient enough to weather these challenging issues.
I think so. There are more than one person I disagree with on little things or big things too but it doesn't matter because their input on some lights. I just think oh I wouldn't discuss this certain topic with them but otherwise look forward to their posts.
 

raggie33

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i do admit i was very frustrated in my life only good people die.. so when oj died i smilled a bit..guess im a bit evil
 

defloyd77

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i do admit i was very frustrated in my life only good people die.. so when oj died i smilled a bit..guess im a bit evil

I've lost a lot of people since 2018, incidentally OJ died on the 3 year anniversary of my sister's passing.

Saddam Hussein also died on the 6 year anniversary of my first cat's passing. Both days we went out for my sister's birthday, same place, same time. Came back home to both of those discoveries.

Life is strange, that's for sure.
 

KITROBASKIN

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Really appreciate your posts defloyd77, thinking we have the same taste in emitters.

Sadness of the loss of loved family members when national news reports stuff: My dad became no longer alive same day the band Nirvana's front man was found having taken his own life.

At risk of being obtuse, I feel no need to proselytize, and actually prefer the term Creator, aligning with some beliefs of some Indians in America.

Without doubt, many of you have faith that there is more to life than meets the eye, with all the suffering and human pursuits. It is so ok to not buy into the institutions using religion for their perpetuation in of itself. Living large, making money off of religion; Yikes.
 
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Monocrom

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You really think people are going to change because of religion?
People have changed due to finding religion. I've seen it.
Why are the majority of serial killers Christian? There are proportionally more Christians in prison than Atheists.
That's a belief you have. It's not true. Can't think of a single serial-killer who was a devout, practicing Christian. Can think of quite a few who were Atheists. If you're a real Christian, you value life. Yes, it is that simple.
Countries with less religion have less crime.
Not true. You can't just post your opinion as if it is a factual statement and expect it to be believed.
Catholic priests. I don't even have to explain that one for everyone to know what I'm talking about. Religion isn't going to magically make a bad person good and history has proven that.
So every single priest is a pedo? Again, sweeping generalizations not based on fact. If a person is seeking a purpose in life, they typically find it after finding God, or joining the military. No one ever said that religion will magically transform an evil individual into a good one.
"Someone once said that if God didn't exist, we'd have to create him." What makes you think they already haven't? How many religions and gods have there been since the beginning of man? Too many to count, who knows how many undocumented ones existed before Christianity. So all of those that existed before and since your version of God were all wrong, but out of 4,200 different religions (Google's number) your version is the be all and end all?
I have faith. If you have evidence that God doesn't exist, please present it. I'm open-minded.
I pity the fact that you don't seem to know what empathy is though.
Actually, I do know what it is. I've also lived long enough to know that people are not basically GOOD deep down inside. To know that Humanity is not a noble species. But as a whole, a rather disgusting, downright obscene, and horrendously selfish/greedy one. However, its members can easily put on suits & ties or little black dresses and present a nice, beautiful outlook on a superficial basis. Empathy doesn't come from nothing. Parents with strong morals teach it to their children.
Maybe Atheists should avoid trying to disprove religious people, who knows what kind of lunatic they might become if they stop believing in eternal damnation.
I'm wondering if you posted that out of anger & frustration or showing your true colors. This religious person is willing to listen and look at evidence. But no need for you to fear. as you said, most serial-killers are Christian. So going off of that belief, wouldn't they become docile and submission if they stopped believing? You can't have it both ways.
 

Monocrom

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Aaaaaand down she goes. Bye bye thread, bye bye online 'friendships'.
Instead of getting offended and tearing at each other, couldn't we all just meet in person and have a good chat over a cuppa or a beer or something? Anything? :grin2:
Sadly, Fuzzy; those days are long gone. People are not as open-minded as they used to be. And, get offended FAR too easily than just a generation ago. Few want open & honest discourse. They just want others to agree with them and validate their beliefs.
 

Hooked on Fenix

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I lost my Mom to colon cancer just before the Witch Creek fire in October 2007 in Ramona, CA. My grandparents had just made it in time to see her pass, flying in from Canada. Had time for her funeral, then a following wake on Saturday. Sunday morning of the 21st, we saw the smoke. We packed up as fast as we could and drove to North County Fair Mall in Escondido. Some of our friends had to gas up their motor home in Ramona and got trapped in town. Had to park our cars and small r.v. on west side of the mall because firefighters said flames could get to us on the east side. It was a huge parking lot. Woke up with lot engulfed in smoke. We had to move again. We took the 15 south toward the airport in San Diego to sent our grandparents home. We had to drive through flames and smoke as the fire jumped the 15 freeway. After getting our grandparents home, we spent 2 nights at a Lemon Grove church parking lot sleeping in our cars. When we finally found a motel to stay in all the way down in Chula Vista we spent a couple nights there. The fire had gotten all the way there and with 100 mph winds, the embers were starting spotfires 5 miles ahead of the fire line. They grounded the planes at the Ramona airport due to the winds, which was the staging area for the county's firefighting planes. It had taken us three days to get a motel because the Red Cross came into the area and booked up all the Holiday Inn rooms in the county for their workers and over 1 million people were evacuated. Bottled water was impossible to find in stores not just because of the 1 million+ evacuated, but because all the stores agreed to donate all of their bottled water to the evacuation centers where they rationed it out to everyone. After some rammed through the barricade keeping people out of Ramona, authorities decided they better just let us back in. We had no running water for 5 days and much of the electrical grid had to be rebuilt, leaving my friends without power for two weeks.

I know what it's like to lose a loved one and then see everything fall apart in the aftermath. It's hard to get through. It feels like a part of you is lost forever. The easiest thing to do is look for someone to blame to try to make some sense out of the calamity. Just remember it wasn't your fault, but it wasn't God's either. We're living in a cursed world since the fall of man and Satan loves Murphy's Law, whatever can go wrong, will go wrong. One hundred out of one hundred people die. We can't escape our own death, but we can chose to avoid the second one.
 
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