Oj bit the big one

bykfixer

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I'm just asking who's going to make the designation that it's just "minor stuff" when you tell any kid to learn to just not get caught? Obviously, his mom thought it was okay to tell her son that before he went on his rampage.

What child, seriously, when you give them the "learn not to get caught" free reign, will suddenly pipe up right before they start pulling the trigger and say, "Yeah, this probably wasn't what mom was talking about when she told me to learn not to get caught?"

:unsure:
More wisdom from the wacbuzz
 

raggie33

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The world is crazy because parents no longer spank there kids. Well that's my opinion!!!!
 

wacbzz

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More wisdom from the wacbuzz
I'm not the genius espousing the grand idea to tell kids to learn to not get caught "for the small things" and then shaking my finger when "kids" don't know the difference between little things and more important things.

I think Forrest Gump had it right when he said "stupid is as stupid does."
🤷
 

wacbzz

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learning not to get caught is an important point of making good choices.
Those in authority will not always be on the right side of things, and folks should have a toolset to dig into when faced with such.

Learning how not to get caught does not a proper upbringing unmake.
The rampage kid had a whole lot of terrible parenting going on. Context matters.
Please let all of us know that you're not actually a parent….

Edit: well, I see from another post that you actually are. Since we're past that point then, how about letting all of us know that you haven't told your kid(s) just to "learn not to get caught."
 

iacchus

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Please let all of us know that you're not actually a parent….
I have a fantastic 15yr old who is kind and thoughtful and excels academically.
And also can differentiate improper authority from wise. She'd do fine at Nuremberg.

If a kid can't tell the difference between a smooch under the bleachers and a thrill-kill spree, I think you're doing parenting wrong from the jump.
 

wacbzz

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I have a fantastic 15yr old who is kind and thoughtful and excels academically.
And also can differentiate improper authority from wise. She'd do fine at Nuremberg.

If a kid can't differentiate the difference between a smooch under the bleachers and a thrill-kill spree, I think you're doing parenting wrong from the jump.
Lots of great parents, really great parents, have fu*ked up kids through no fault of the way they brought up their kids. But telling a kid to "learn not to get caught" is, IMO, setting an absolutely wrong precedent for any child.
 

iacchus

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Lots of great parents, really great parents, have fu*ked up kids through no fault of the way they brought up their kids. But telling a kid to "learn not to get caught" is, IMO, setting an absolutely wrong precedent for any child.
Lots huh?
I would think its fairly rare, and a bit of a cop-out when applied generally.
I think the parents who just caught manslaughter charges would tell you they were fine and normal parents.
We know better though, don't we?

I live in the deep South, where authority sometimes has the distinct flavor of racism and ignorance. Learning how to recognize that sort of thing and how to handle it when faced with it is a must. Learning where it stems from and the damage it causes is a must.
Sometimes learning how to simply avoid it is a matter of knowing how to not get caught.

Again, context matters. Raising a respectable and trustworthy fellow human is a complex thing. None of this exists in a vacuum.
 

wacbzz

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Again, context matters. Raising a respectable and trustworthy fellow human is a complex thing. None of this exists in a vacuum.
Of course it doesn't. That's exactly why you don't raise kids telling them that to evade trouble, they learn to not get caught.

I'm not certain the difficulty in getting the bigger picture here. Kids don't have to turn out to be murders to be considered bad kids that simply rebelled against the way they were brought up. And yeah, I stick to the word I used, "lots." If your only definition of a "bad kid" is the one that is murderer, perhaps it's you that lives in the vacuum?

And honestly, if growing up in the deep south, in general, involves people telling and teaching their kids to learn how to not to get caught, I am ever so thankful that I'm not raising my family down there.
 

iacchus

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Of course it doesn't. That's exactly why you don't raise kids telling them that to evade trouble, they learn to not get caught.
You seem to be under the impression that they are only being taught this. Like this is the only tool given for their toolbox. That is certainly not my meaning.
A kid should be given a wide range of reasons why to stay out of trouble.

A kid should also know how not to get caught, because sometimes doing the right thing gets one in trouble, but doing the right thing should always be a heavily weighted option when faced with a set of choices.

Authority does not always mean "good" or "right", whether it be a cop, a teacher, a boss, or just an elder.
Kids need to know that too, and should be given the tools to make a clear judgment call about that very issue.

I'm not certain the difficulty in getting the bigger picture here. Kids don't have to turn out to be murders to be considered bad kids that simply rebelled against the way they were brought up. And yeah, I stick to the word I used, "lots." If your only definition of a "bad kid" is the one that is murderer, perhaps it's you that lives in the vacuum?

All kids go through a phase of rebellion. Not being ready and able to handle that in a kind and constructive manner shows poorly on the parent.
Bad kids are like bad dogs, a very rare thing for a smart and loving home to produce.
I see significantly more excuses made for bad parenting than I see intrinsically bad children.

But there's always those ready to make the excuses. So it goes.

I've made as much of my point about this as I feel will do any good.
I'm happy to read whatever response you have to it @wacbzz, but there'll be no retort. I see no more profit in it.
 

wacbzz

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A kid should be given a wide range of reasons why to stay out of trouble.
I agree with giving kids reasons "why" to stay out of trouble, but I for sure don't agree with telling children to "learn how to not get caught." That's exactly and entirely the same thing as backhandedly telling them go ahead and make trouble, but just don't get caught.
A kid should also know how not to get caught, because sometimes doing the right thing gets one in trouble, but doing the right thing should always be a heavily weighted option when faced with a set of choices.
I will always teach my child to do the right thing. Any trouble as a result of doing the right thing will always be outweighed in the end by knowing that you/they did the right thing, and certainly, much more often than not, will result in any "trouble" as a result of doing the right thing being righted. Whether they choose to do the right thing or not is a horse of a different color.
Bad kids are like bad dogs, a very rare thing for a smart and loving home to produce.
So, let me make sure I'm understanding correctly… in addition to believing that a parent should tell their children to "learn not to get in trouble," you also believe that there are inherently no "bad" dogs, only "bad" owners? No dogs ever do bad things when brought up in a good environment? Rarely? Sigh…
I've made as much of my point about this as I feel will do any good.
I'm happy to read whatever response you have to it @wacbzz, but there'll be no retort. I see no more profit in it.
I appreciate the back and forth. Tomato, Tamato. ;)
 

Monocrom

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Unfortunately, I've lived long enough to see that there are genuinely bad kids, and even genuinely bad dogs. Though will say that the latter is much more rare than the former, and usually the result of horrendous mistreatment by people.

Call me crazy, I learned at an early age that if you're going to do anything that is against the rules or against the law.... be prepared to pay the consequences afterwards. Decide if doing the deed is worth the punishment. Out of all the things dad taught me, he never once taught me to figure out how to get away with doing something, or "Don't get caught!"
 

bykfixer

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Lots of great parents, really great parents, have fu*ked up kids through no fault of the way they brought up their kids. But telling a kid to "learn not to get caught" is, IMO, setting an absolutely wrong precedent for any child.
That's your opinion.
My kids turned out fine. And guess what? When the thought entered their mind full of mush not to get caught they decided not to do the crime FOR FEAR THEY MIGHT GET CAUGHT.
 

raggie33

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I'm glad I was disaplined when I was bad . Taught me to be a law obeying citizen I never been in trouble with the law. I don't brake laws I won't even speed.. o I know I'm flawed and a mess I do stupid stuff but never break laws
 

Monocrom

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"Don't get caught doing wrong." More often than not equates in a child's mind to "Don't do wrong, and therefore, you won't get caught doing wrong.
I have to completely and respectfully disagree. They take "Don't get caught," literally. Their understanding of what you mentioned above, only works if a parent then explains precisely what they mean by that very simplistic statement. Unfortunately it's clear that with some parents, that explanation is left out.
 

defloyd77

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"Don't get caught doing wrong." More often than not equates in a child's mind to "Don't do wrong, and therefore, you won't get caught doing wrong.

What's the point of saying "don't get caught"? That just gives the wrong impression. That's like telling a kid "if you can't be good, be good at it".
 
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