Sadly, those are the very people who don't have driver's licenses.We need bicyclists and motorcyclists to provide the donated organs to save the sane people, and me too.
Therefore, they don't fill out the back of them to be organ donors.
dont ever move to a big city
- Thread starter raggie33
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Therefore, they don't fill out the back of them to be organ donors.
The largest pool of cadavers we used in medical school came from homeless, unclaimed people.
IMA SOL MAN
Flashlight Enthusiast
Motorcyclists have to have a DL. From a video I saw posted here of an e bike that hit 74 MPH, I think e bike riders should have to get them, too. Those yayhooz in the video were riding extremely crazy.
Not even shown any respect or consideration when they die.
IMA SOL MAN
Flashlight Enthusiast
That's not true. My late brother donated his body to a medical school. I was impressed with the respect and appreciation shown for his donation, and toward his family. After the school finished with his remains, they held a virtual memorial that the family was allowed to stream by zoom, (2020) and then his remains were cremated and shipped to his son. Now, I can't speak for all medical schools, but the one he donated to showed consideration and respect.
jtr1962
Flashaholic
Strictly speaking, those things aren't e-bikes. They're electric motorcycles, which as you noted already require a driver's license.
By federal law, a e-bike must have useable pedals which propel the bike (the pedals on those bikes are merely foot rests), must be limited to 750 watts, and can go no faster than 28 mph. Legal e-bikes then don't need licenses to operate as they're no faster than a strong cyclist on a pedal bike.
My point is, since no one claimed the bodies, they were simply carted off to medical schools. It's one thing to donate one's body. Very admirable. Quite another for someone else to decide, "Well, it's just a worthless homeless person. Screw spending resources or public tax dollars to bury or cremate them. Let's give them to the medical schools and at least get some use out of them."
IMA SOL MAN
Flashlight Enthusiast
Doctors have to learn someway. This is better than the way they used to acquire bodies, by buying them from grave robbers.
idleprocess
Flashaholic
It seems that it can be a cold and impersonal thing to die homeless. However, memorials - be they services, gravesites, mausoleums, columbarium - are financed by the deceased or their survivors. Declining to spend public dollars on such for the indigent is not denying the deceased a benefit they would have otherwise received had they survivors to speak for them.
No, there are better methods. The days of buying corpses from grave robbers ended long ago. Plus, in this day & age we have virtual dissection videos. It's not how it used to be where one could make the claim that medical students need fresh corpses to learn, become proper doctors, and thus help the living for decades to come.
We still need their meat to eat, but we don't need to cut up animals for their fur in order to stay warm. Synthetic fabrics and blends take care of that nowadays.
There's simply zero need, today to desicrate, disrespect, and defile the corpse of someone who greatly suffered in Life; and at least in death, deserves to rest in peace.
I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about basic, common, human dignity. (Yes, I know. Horribly naive of me to expect even that much nowadays.) At the very least, tax-payer dollars used for cremation. Scatter the ashes somewhere in a dignified manner. Heck, take out an Ad. campaign that emphasizes how doing so helps the living. Less real estate being taken up by bodies. In case the deceased were sick, cremation ensures no diseases passed along to the living. Maybe ask local priests if they could say a prayer before the ashes of numerous homeless people are scattered. No need for costly Memorials.
I completely disagree. There is no substitute for direct, hands on anatomy (and variations) dissection and experience of actually touching and seeing in person. I would never want to be taken care of by a surgeon who didn't have that part of their education. We never dishonored the bodies we worked on.
If those bodies belonged to people who never wanted to be dissected, never agreed to be dissected; then I'm sorry but.... you did.
You assume they cared enough about their life to not want their body to be used for something that made a contribution. I doubt they cared about much of anything.
idleprocess
Flashaholic
Reasonable. I could get behind that. Might even bring attention to the plight of the homeless.
But I'm going to indirectly second what @LuxLuthor is saying - all accounts I've heard from people that went through med school is that human cadavers were a critical part of their education and they treated them with reverence.
Really? That's genuinely how you feel? I thought you'd be upset, even angry with me for my previous comment. But, you absolutely blind-sided me with your response.
You're just assuming they didn't care about their Lives. Many of them absolutely do. But due to horrific addictions or horrific mental illnesses for which they literally can't get any treatment for in America, they're stuck being homeless. Doesn't mean they don't care. Everyone has a basic human right to their own bodies. Unless a person signed a waiver while alive, signed the back of their driver's license, or the family who claimed the body, then said, "We know he'd want to have his body used for medical research," then there's a huge problem.... That person, for personal or religious reasons, might not want their body cut up or dissected for any cause/justification another person could come up with. Just because they're Homeless, doesn't mean their rights get taken away.
Here's what truly amazes me: Many folks know that Dr. Kevorkian was kicked out of Medical School. That he was never actually a doctor. But almost everyone thinks it's because he created his S. machine and advocated people should be assisted if they chose to self-end. Nope! That's not why he got kicked out! It's because at the time he came up with a truly wonderful idea. One that is easily a century ahead of its time. A method of execution should be devised for condemned convicts that preserves their organs. That way, those organs can be removed after execution, and given to those on Waiting lists. It would also allow such convicts to both literally and figuratively "give back" to the community which they terrorized and horrified when they were alive.
All those learned doctors and educators were so horrified at the idea, that they wasted no time in kicking him out! The very same doctors and educators who afterwards continued to use the dead bodies of Homeless people, without their consent! Cutting them open. Somehow justifying it in their own minds. People considered so utterly worthless by Society that they don't even warrant the same type of consideration as a violent killer. Doctors and Educators who never even stopped for a split-second to realize their own obscene hypocrisy!
I agree with you that I don't want a surgeon operating on me unless he has hands-on experience. There are plenty of bodies from willing donors out there for them. But for medical students who are never going to pick up a scalpel in their lives, virtual exams/dissections are going to be good enough.
The 19th Century is over. So is its lack of donated bodies to medical institutions. Grave robbing is no longer a necessary means for educating medical students. And quite frankly, you can put defiling the bodies of recently deceased Homeless people on that short list as well. A person's right to their own body doesn't get stripped from them just because they are Homeless. Doctors were horrified when Kevorkian proposed doing that very thing to condemned convicts. But somehow it's okay to do so to the Homeless? Yeah.... Funny how folks can justify ANYTHING in their own heads if they feel it's for a good cause.
It is literally impossible to treat a person's body with reverence if they did not want to be cut open or dissected in the first place. For some, it is very much for deeply religious reasons.
idleprocess
Flashaholic
... and as I stated in the first sentence of the post you quoted I'm OK with something to handle final requests for the indigent on the public dime.
That wasn't the part of your post I took exception with.
Can't help but feel that an old-fashioned advertising campaign targeted towards the Homeless, would resolve this issue. Outdoor Billboards, fliers at Homeless shelters; asking them to donate their bodies. Emphasizing how important it is to do so. Letting them know they can help after death. Perhaps the medical institutions themselves can help by offering benefits in exchange for consent. At least give them something.
