Is Klarus quality better than FourSevens ?

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anethema

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I for one will never be purchasing a Klarus product ever. They have clearly stolen at least two designs, and David has hinted at even more.

A company that does this should never be supported, especially by enthusiast type forums like this. If we don't help out the guys that started here who will?
 

Tiresius

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I will never buy anything from Klarus because they ripped off a bunch of 4Sevens designs. In some cases they accepted stolen plans of some of 4Sevens' prototypes. There's no way i can honor that kind of company.

Many light manufacturers have independent companies that machine bodies and designs for them. Surefire is the only company I've seen that machine their own lights, aside from Maglite. The manufacturers just simply assemble the tail switch, LE, driver and LED.
 

Korgath

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This is I guess the risk of outsourcing your manufacturing to shady chinese factories an personnel. So many pics and leaked iphones stories that I've lost count! IF this is happening to the flashlight market, its not surprising.
 

Chicken Drumstick

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I for one will never be purchasing a Klarus product ever. They have clearly stolen at least two designs, and David has hinted at even more.

A company that does this should never be supported, especially by enthusiast type forums like this. If we don't help out the guys that started here who will?

That sounds a little Judge & Jury without actually having any facts to deal with though.
 

Vesper

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I for one will never be purchasing a Klarus product ever. They have clearly stolen at least two designs, and David has hinted at even more.

A company that does this should never be supported, especially by enthusiast type forums like this. If we don't help out the guys that started here who will?

Well said. These guys and a few others will never see my business for this very reason.
 

reppans

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I stick with FourSevens because I like the way they stand behind their products with a long warranty and good customer service, and are headquartered in the US. Too many other Asian manufacturer's warranties are too short, or ask you mail back to Asia, essentially rendering the light a throw-away if it ever stops working.
 

anethema

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David has basically stated what happened and has the early prototypes to prove it.

This kind of thing speaks for itself:

[hotlinked pics deleted - Kestrel]

David from 4sevens has also said many internal tiny measurements etc are the same which would only result from an actual stolen product, rather than just a very VERY similar looking design.

Sorry didn't mean to derail your thread but since the topic was directly asking Klarus or 4sevens, I thought it on topic to say since they stole many of their designs I personally, when looking at those 2 brands, would never chose Klarus.
 
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the.Mtn.Man

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the hypocrisy of any modern flashlight maker accusing another company, of stealing an idea, is laughable
Klarus didn't simply steal an idea, they literally stole another company's products and rebranded them as their own.

As for suing, yeah, good luck suing a Chinese company. The best David could do, and what he did do, was terminate the business relationship.
 

roadkill1109

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Many light manufacturers have independent companies that machine bodies and designs for them. Surefire is the only company I've seen that machine their own lights, aside from Maglite. The manufacturers just simply assemble the tail switch, LE, driver and LED.

You know, now that you mention Surefire, a friend of mine who works for one of the huge Chinese flashlight manufacturers told me that there was a top secret meeting between executives of SureFire and their boss (owner of said Chinese company). What else could this mean but for out-sourcing, right?
 

roadkill1109

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if he doesn't like it he can sue.. and if we are going down that road, Jetbeam should sue them both http://edcforums.com/threads/flashlight-review-jet-i-aaa-jet-u.44359/


kinda like how surefire is suing 4sevens (and everyone else) for patent infringement....



edit:
the hypocrisy of any modern flashlight maker accusing another company, of stealing an idea, is laughable

haha, our flashlight world is plagued with issues of stolen ideas and designs, much like the apple and samsung fiasco! hahaha laughable indeed!

Why not just focus your attention to designing better, good quality lights?
 

kyhunter1

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When it comes to designs and patents, hardly any company based in China has any ethics. Pretty much none of them. Maybe they should sue there selves as each of them is guilty in one way or other. If they would spend time doing real research instead of tryiing to copy someone else, they might actually come up with something innovative. I dont waste my time or money on the likes of Klarus or any of the other wierd name Chinese made lights. To me, the company names of Klarus, Balder, or Sunwayman are just plain ridiculous to name a few. Im not saying that all of their lights are junk either. Here is something that you all will never hear from me, "Check out my new Balder". Just not gonna happen. If they want to be innovative, how about starting the company with a name that makes sense? I favor Foursevens and Eagletac some, but none of the others mad in China. If you want a real light that you can depend on when it really counts, forget all the fuss and get a Malkoff, Torchlab, or a Surefire.
 

nbp

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Agreed. Instead of getting the imitations based on stolen ideas, why not get the real things? Buy lights and parts from McGizmo, Muyshondt, Cool Fall, TnC, Mac and our other Custom builders. You can find their designs copied in many foreign brands, like Jetbeam, Nitecore, Niteye etc. Save your pennies and support the true innovators and craftsmen who made them first. These lights are a pleasure to use each and every time you pick them up.



I think the only foreign lights I own anymore are a couple AAA Fenixes as they pretty much seem to stay out of the drama and the E01 and LD01 are just too good to get rid of.


EDIT: I meant to post this in the Zip 20 thread but it's kind of relevant here too so I'll leave it I guess and post it there too. :ohgeez:
 
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anethema

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They havent sued anyone, and they continue making flashlights, but doesn't mean I have to buy from the thieves. Even if they didn't mean to, they could call 4sevens to license their design if they want to keep making it.

4sevens is based in USA, lights just assembled in china.

That being said I'm sure they could have some USA made lights for a premium price and people would buy. Look at HDS. Make it nice enough and people will wait the better part of a year to get theirs even.
 

skyfire

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that is pretty much how i feel about chinese brands. i have completely written them off, except for fenix, which seems like a more legitimate company.
foursevens and eagletac are american companies, with lights made in china, so their business ethics are different.

but the rest seem like they only want to make a quick buck. then after they have your money they dont want anything to do with you.
ive noticed from quite a few brands... they release an obviously flawed model, only to come out with revised updates to it every couple months. this shows me they dont do any research or testing on their products. they just try and turn a new model as fast as possible, then move on to the next. are we the test subjects? and worst of all we pay them for this?? some of these model are expensive too, running the same price as a surefire. but my surefire will last a lifetime either through free repair or free replacement. how many of you are reserved in truly using your lights in fear of it failing and not knowing if your $75 just went down the drain?

thats another thing, i see plenty of lights at home depot and target that are made in china for $20. why do these "high end" lights cost about $75? the newest LEDs dont cost that much. they price their lights nearly as much as surefires in hope of fooling people to think its on par, but made with less expensive labor. , but they dont spend nearly as much developing it. actually they dont spend anything developing it, they just copy what others have done.

im sorry, im done ranting. it just irritates me how some people do business.
i do hope that David can consider sourcing a shop in the USA to make his lights. or better yet, foursevens becomes ever more successful, and he can manufacturer his own lights.
 
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hiuintahs

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foursevens and eagletac are american companies, with lights made in china, so their business ethics are different.

Barely American. Foursevens is made and assembled in the Olight factory in China from what I remember unless its changed in the last year. I do not think 4Sevens has a design and engineering team in the U.S.
I thought EagleTac was a company based in the state of Washington. But after visiting them at Shot Show, I'm not sure. I think their main electronic designer is Chinese.

Let's face it many Chinese lights are pretty good these days. Like it or not China has taken (copied or stolen) technology that took decades to invent and develop in the western world. This has all been enabled by corporate leaders looking to offload the cost of manufacturing to cheap labor. But to be competitive nowadays, they probably have no choice. America is in a downward spiral and the standard of living will continue to decline in the U.S.

At least we'll have flashlights to play with though! :rolleyes:
 
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roadkill1109

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Yeah Olight seem to be the ones that manufacture the 4Sevens brand. For a time I even thought that Fenix was also a partner. Anyways, I think that even if the lights are made in China, Dave does the R&D stateside and sends it over to the manufacturers overseas to mass produce the light.

Problem probably is that in transit, the design and form is copied and manufactured by other flashlight companies and sold at a much lower price. How unscroupulous indeed but that the risk of dealing with manufacturers abroad. Companies in the US have no choice but to outsource as the cost of manufacturing and labor are significantly cheaper in China.

But true enough, even if the flashlights are cheaper than their US-made counterparts, the quality is already quite good. I'm sure the sales alone would show that these are selling quite well in the western hemisphere.

Wouldnt it be to your own personal loss if you ban/withhold purchasing these lights?

I'm sure Dave will get this sorted out and we can look forward to new and better products from FourSevens.

Peace Out! :)
 

Vesper

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I thought EagleTac was a company based in the state of Washington. But after visiting them at Shot Show, I'm not sure. I think their main electronic designer is Chinese.

Not from WA... based in AZ if I remember. Another company not too removed from the spirit of this thread (for those who were here about 3 years ago)... Yes, my DNB list is always growing.
 

reppans

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....4sevens is based in USA, lights just assembled in china.

That being said I'm sure they could have some USA made lights for a premium price and people would buy. Look at HDS. Make it nice enough and people will wait the better part of a year to get theirs even.

I'd like to see this, but it would have to be under a different subsidiary and brand name... for better or worse FourSevens has already defined it's niche in the marketplace - think Volkswagen Phaeton. A Lexus type subsidiary could work though.

(No disrespect for David or FourSevens, they are my favorite manufacture by a good margin.)

I'd like to try a Surefire or HDS, but they refuse to consider common batteries (except extremely limited offerings).
 
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shelm

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I do not think 4Sevens has a design and engineering team in the U.S.
I thought EagleTac was a company based in the state of Washington. But after visiting them at Shot Show, I'm not sure. I think their main electronic designer is Chinese.

they are all Chinese, arent they? ;)
the chief heads of 4sevens (Chow), Zebralight, Eagletac .. three "US-based" designers with no actual US-owned factory are all Chinese**.
Japan, China, Taiwan, Hongkong, Shenzhen, Korea, are the leading industries in the electronic business.

nothing wrong with that.

** = with "Chinese" i dont mean their citizenship but their blood heritage
 
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