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It about Time!
- Thread starter DallasA
- Start date
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DallasA
Enlightened
Roger11 said:
Yes there is
MJ
DallasA
Enlightened
bahamut said:
I normally run a beta test on fully completed model then I take the feedback of the people involved and see if there is anything we can improve upon. Usually this does not happen for sometime but in some case if there is something that sticks out like a sore thumb then we take the time and work on it right away.
MJ
DallasA
Enlightened
Archangel said:
Yep I knew that until we found a way to improve something even better, but this is it no more working on it, if we improve upon it anymore it will be way into the future. We several other products that need to have this attention and get released.
MJ
B
bahamut
Guest
would really like to see a comparison between the fenix L0P and ocean series!(when they come out of course)
BentHeadTX
Flashlight Enthusiast
The Ocean VS the L0P?
This is pure speculation on my part but I think it might be useful. The L0P is basically a smaller version of the L1P 2.0 with a twistie instead of the clickie switch. Figure Fenix would use the 2.0 curcuit to prevent killing the AAA cell rapidly.
I have an L1P and use it as a bicycle helmet light since it is small, light runs OK on NiMH batteries. The best thing about it is the availability of 500mA regulator boards, LuxeonIII LEDs and switch mods. In a month it will be as much a Fenix as my BB500 R2H sandwiched minimag with Kroll clickie is a Mag product (I always tend to modify things if I can)
Since the L0P is a small L1P, does this mean that the Ocean is just a smaller Kino Bay? My evil mind has figured this not to be the case for several reasons. Peak could of made a smaller Kino Bay easily and produced it shortly after the Kino Bay was introduced. Since it has taken a long time to get MJ's pet project about to hit production means there is some interesting technology in the Ocean. The Ocean hits 50% at 90 minutes on an alkaline battery... the L0P is 60 minutes. The Ocean's runtime charts looks drastically different and much more stable than either the Kino Bay or L1P.
Time for Bentheads L0P VS Ocean theoretical comparison:
HA-III durability Peak wins easily with "real" HA-III
Beam quality and tint I would lean towards the Peak as my Peak Luxeon lights have nicer beam quality and tint than my L1P.
Size Fenix wins as it is shorter and has a smaller head
Regulation Peak wins easily since MJ released the runtime charts with what looks like a voltage regulator curve VS a basic voltage boost curcuit in L0P.
Switch They both use twisty switches but the Peak has a momentary built-in. The win goes to Peak for having a combination switch.
Light output Now things get really speculative! The L0P uses an R bin Luxeon which has very high output for LuxeonI LEDs. However, they never tell what the forward voltage of the R bin and power draw is critical. The Ocean most likely uses a low forward voltage Q or R bin LED so it would extend the runtime. Since Peak put a lot of work into the reflector of the Ocean, this tells me no stone was left unturned to get the maximum output without a hefty current draw. Since the Ocean has better regulation, my guess is when comparing the lux output over time the Ocean's actual output would be higher than the L0P for the majority of runtime. The larger head of the Ocean would also increase the efficiency of the light.
It is either a tie or the edge goes to Peak with better regulation.
Cost The L0P wins at $47.50 VS ??? $60 to 70
Value Ocean wins with better regulation, momentary switch/twistie and much better HA-III.
Customer support Easy to get ahold of Peak... they even have their own CPF forum.
As I have stated, just some ponderings of a flashaholic on the internet. But since it will live on my keychain, get beat up in the desert on a lanyard and generally beaten up... I give the win to Peak.
No matter what happens, 2006 will see the birth of Luxeon AAA keychain lights! Now if the new baby had a high/low switch...
This is pure speculation on my part but I think it might be useful. The L0P is basically a smaller version of the L1P 2.0 with a twistie instead of the clickie switch. Figure Fenix would use the 2.0 curcuit to prevent killing the AAA cell rapidly.
I have an L1P and use it as a bicycle helmet light since it is small, light runs OK on NiMH batteries. The best thing about it is the availability of 500mA regulator boards, LuxeonIII LEDs and switch mods. In a month it will be as much a Fenix as my BB500 R2H sandwiched minimag with Kroll clickie is a Mag product (I always tend to modify things if I can)
Since the L0P is a small L1P, does this mean that the Ocean is just a smaller Kino Bay? My evil mind has figured this not to be the case for several reasons. Peak could of made a smaller Kino Bay easily and produced it shortly after the Kino Bay was introduced. Since it has taken a long time to get MJ's pet project about to hit production means there is some interesting technology in the Ocean. The Ocean hits 50% at 90 minutes on an alkaline battery... the L0P is 60 minutes. The Ocean's runtime charts looks drastically different and much more stable than either the Kino Bay or L1P.
Time for Bentheads L0P VS Ocean theoretical comparison:
HA-III durability Peak wins easily with "real" HA-III
Beam quality and tint I would lean towards the Peak as my Peak Luxeon lights have nicer beam quality and tint than my L1P.
Size Fenix wins as it is shorter and has a smaller head
Regulation Peak wins easily since MJ released the runtime charts with what looks like a voltage regulator curve VS a basic voltage boost curcuit in L0P.
Switch They both use twisty switches but the Peak has a momentary built-in. The win goes to Peak for having a combination switch.
Light output Now things get really speculative! The L0P uses an R bin Luxeon which has very high output for LuxeonI LEDs. However, they never tell what the forward voltage of the R bin and power draw is critical. The Ocean most likely uses a low forward voltage Q or R bin LED so it would extend the runtime. Since Peak put a lot of work into the reflector of the Ocean, this tells me no stone was left unturned to get the maximum output without a hefty current draw. Since the Ocean has better regulation, my guess is when comparing the lux output over time the Ocean's actual output would be higher than the L0P for the majority of runtime. The larger head of the Ocean would also increase the efficiency of the light.
It is either a tie or the edge goes to Peak with better regulation.
Cost The L0P wins at $47.50 VS ??? $60 to 70
Value Ocean wins with better regulation, momentary switch/twistie and much better HA-III.
Customer support Easy to get ahold of Peak... they even have their own CPF forum.
As I have stated, just some ponderings of a flashaholic on the internet. But since it will live on my keychain, get beat up in the desert on a lanyard and generally beaten up... I give the win to Peak.
No matter what happens, 2006 will see the birth of Luxeon AAA keychain lights! Now if the new baby had a high/low switch...
LowWorm
Enlightened
I second BentHeadTX's high/low switch wish. If the Ocean had that, it would put it in a class by itself and definitely be the tie breaker for many who might vacillate between the Fenix L0P and the Ocean.
Overall, the Peak lights seem to be of a much higher quality finish, too, and that's important to some. Nothing irked me more than finding out my "HA-III" anodized finish on my L1P was greatly exaggerated.
Overall, the Peak lights seem to be of a much higher quality finish, too, and that's important to some. Nothing irked me more than finding out my "HA-III" anodized finish on my L1P was greatly exaggerated.
B
bahamut
Guest
LowWorm said:
that's what kept me from getting a fenix, so much for type 3 anodized
JimH
Flashlight Enthusiast
It may very well have been HA-III, but not all HA-III's are created equal. I have a FF2 that has seen much less use than my ARC LS, but it looks like it's been through the war. On the other hand, my ARC LS, which has been through the war looks like it just came out of the boxLowWorm said:
Dogliness
Enlightened
I have the ARC AAA-P and the Fenix L1P. I agree with LowWorm's comment about the HA-III anodized finish on the L1P being greatly exaggerated, and the huge contrast JimH pointed out between the finishes of the Fenix and the Arc. My Fenix L1P already has a few scratches as a result of fairly gently use. I am not a huge fan of the L1P, particularly because of the finish, but it does show that there is a great demand for a flashlight that uses a standard battery, like the AA, and a Luxeon LED; has decent runtime; is bright for an AA light; and sells for about $45.
BentHead predicts that the Peak Ocean will be larger than the Fenix LOP will have a larger head. I am hoping that BentHead is wrong on this point. I noticed that the Fenix LOP is both longer and of greater diameter than the Arc AAA. If the Ocean is larger still, it would be the largest of the three. One the the biggest attractions to me of the AAA flashlight is the small size.
I am a big fan of Peak flashlights. I am hoping the Ocean is as small as the Arc AAA both in length an diameter (although a slightly larger head would not bother me), has good throw for an AAA light, is brighter and whiter than the Arc AAA, is two stage, at the brightest level has at least 30 minutes of runtime to 75% intensity and 60 minutes to 50%, and sells for around $60. Hey, it does not hurt to hope.
BentHead predicts that the Peak Ocean will be larger than the Fenix LOP will have a larger head. I am hoping that BentHead is wrong on this point. I noticed that the Fenix LOP is both longer and of greater diameter than the Arc AAA. If the Ocean is larger still, it would be the largest of the three. One the the biggest attractions to me of the AAA flashlight is the small size.
I am a big fan of Peak flashlights. I am hoping the Ocean is as small as the Arc AAA both in length an diameter (although a slightly larger head would not bother me), has good throw for an AAA light, is brighter and whiter than the Arc AAA, is two stage, at the brightest level has at least 30 minutes of runtime to 75% intensity and 60 minutes to 50%, and sells for around $60. Hey, it does not hurt to hope.
Last edited:
Dogliness said:
I had similar questions. A bit of detective work can give you these answers. MJ has posted a link to a picture at the top of the thread with an Ocean prototype behind another light. From memory, I think it was a Matterhorn, a light with the same diameter, about .55 inch(from memory) as the L0P. You can also checkd the length and make a good guess--the pic shows the Ocean to be shorter. So, from my recollection, the head of the (protoype) Ocean is indeed wider, in the .75 to .87 range, while the length is slightly shorter than the 2.87 inch LOP.
I have the even shorter JIL 1.3 UP, which has a varying width but whose head is about the same width, I'm guessing, as the Ocean. Its length is shorter than either the Ocean or L0P. It really disappears in the pocket, so I wouldn't be too concerned about the wider head on the Ocean. If you plan to always have on a keychain, perhaps it is a consideration. By the way, I compared the JIL DD and JIL 1.3 side by side and actually preferred the longer 1.3. Once you get that small in a light, you have to wonder if it's still easy to twist and use. Did you see the movie Zoolander? Derek has such a tiny cell that's it's hilarious watching him try to use the miniature thing. For me, at just over 2 inches, the longer JIL is very user friendly, and still super bright. I'm itching to beta test the Ocean and think it will be great.
GJW
Flashlight Enthusiast
From the pics that I've seen, the L0P is the same length as a Matterhorn pocket body but is slightly larger in diameter.
And in my experience the the HAIII on the L1P is more than equal to most of its competition.
No anodizing will perform well on sharp edges which the L1P just has more of.
After daily carry for months now, mine is showing wear on the sharp edges of the hex flats but on the flats and rounds it is still looking factory fresh.
I even scrub it routinely to remove the accumulated metal shavings ground off of the keys and coins that I carry with it.
And in my experience the the HAIII on the L1P is more than equal to most of its competition.
No anodizing will perform well on sharp edges which the L1P just has more of.
After daily carry for months now, mine is showing wear on the sharp edges of the hex flats but on the flats and rounds it is still looking factory fresh.
I even scrub it routinely to remove the accumulated metal shavings ground off of the keys and coins that I carry with it.
BentHeadTX
Flashlight Enthusiast
My speculative larger applies to the head as in the pic the head is larger than the matterhorn. Since the Matterhorn body is smaller in diameter than the L0P (can't mill flats into a matterhorn body!) I would think the Ocean body diameter is truely smaller. I would also bet the head is slightly larger in diameter than the Fenix which is a GOOD thing! Slip it into your pocket and you know which end to push the momentary switch. A complaint with the L1P is both ends are the same diameter and many people would put finger prints on the lens thinking it was the switch. With a light so small, a larger head makes sense since it will cool better, throw better, have more room for advanced electronics, easy to identify which end is which and make it easier to twist on. The Matterhorn head is about 10% larger than the body and with the milled flats easier to turn on. The Ocean continues with that concept and the larger head makes sense. I prefer the larger head of the Mediterranean over the Caribbean since it cools better and fits in a holster much better.
Pondered the momentary switch goodness while on a lanyard. Pull the light out and press for momentary light with no danger of it coming on when attached to a lanyard. Normally, I use my Matterhorn on a keychain but when playing around arid countries that start with vowels... it becomes a lanyard light.
To some it sounds odd to put so much thought into a keychain light... but as the light I use the most the Ocean has all the details and durability I need. Once I get it, I'll be happy until a CPF Special titanium Ocean AAA with variable output makes the scene (strong hint, hint, hint!)
Paypal locked and loaded!
Pondered the momentary switch goodness while on a lanyard. Pull the light out and press for momentary light with no danger of it coming on when attached to a lanyard. Normally, I use my Matterhorn on a keychain but when playing around arid countries that start with vowels... it becomes a lanyard light.
To some it sounds odd to put so much thought into a keychain light... but as the light I use the most the Ocean has all the details and durability I need. Once I get it, I'll be happy until a CPF Special titanium Ocean AAA with variable output makes the scene (strong hint, hint, hint!)
Paypal locked and loaded!
BentHeadTX said:
... while not exactly a Peak issue, I wanted to point out that the Fenix Folk have grooved the body by the head and just lightly knurled the switch end. Have a look, run your thumb along it and you'll never make that mistake again
Dogliness
Enlightened
BentHeadTX said:
Thanks for the clarification. I hope you a right. I think I am also locked and loaded on this one.
BentHeadTX said:
In such small lights I'm also looking for a halfway decent runtime rather than high output, and if the Ocean's runtime charts are indeed correct the Ocean looks much more likely to fill my needs. I'd also love to see a high/low switch for lights like the Ocean - in many situations I need *low* output rather than high output. It's got to be a twisty though. I'm not really happy with clickies in lights I use when travelling.
But even without such a switch I think I'll go for the Peak rather than the LOP. My Peaks seem to be able to take anything I throw at them, they're very reliable, well-made lights. And reliability is to me one of the most important arguments for or against buying a light.
Hans
DallasA
Enlightened
( Smile ) Thanks guys:
I will comment on one thing BentHeadTX is correct. The electronics used in this light are no were close to being simlar to any of the rest of line. ( Smirk )
Hope to have the details finish by the end of the week
Wish me luck!
MJ
I will comment on one thing BentHeadTX is correct. The electronics used in this light are no were close to being simlar to any of the rest of line. ( Smirk )
Hope to have the details finish by the end of the week
Wish me luck!
MJ
