Keeppower 18350 protected vs unprotected.

[Lights and Guns]

Hey guys - quick question.

Is there any difference between the keeppower 18350 (1200mAh) unprotected vs protected cells besides the obvious (that 1 is "safer")

Are you giving anything up using a protected cell for the safety in terms of performance? Or do both the cells perform exactly the same as each other and no difference would be noticed during use? It's just preference ? Maybe unprotected cells are still around for a cheaper alternative?

I'd mainly just like to understand if there is a reason to choose 1 over the other and why... in regards to powering a high drain flashlight such as a modlite hand held light.

ive scoured the internet but haven't found my answer.... however I did see something about the unprotected cells having 10A of continuous discharge meanwhile the protected cells only have 8A of continuous discharge rate, although both cells are 1200 mAh. Would this effect anything or be noticeable in operating a light?

sorry about my newbie question and
thanks so much for any clarity you could bring me on this topic!

 

[Random Dan]

The protection circuit protects the cell against over-discharge, over-charge, and current draw. So the protected cell is limited to only 8A. If your light tries to draw more than that it will trip the protection circuit and you'll be in the dark, but as long as your light draws less than 8A it won't make a difference.

Sometimes protection circuits can fail, particularly if the light is dropped, leaving the cell useless. I prefer unprotected cells as they are more reliable in that regard. If using unprotected cells though you need a light that provides over-discharge protection or you need to be careful not to run the batteries down too far.

 

[Lights and Guns]

Interesting... i appreciate the response and will keep it in mind - I own both protected and non protected ... never had an issue with either. Good info though, much appreciated!

I have 4 more protected 18350's heading my way in the mail - just wanted to finally see if there was much of a difference between them. Guess there isn't a great difference so that's good!

thanks

 

[HKJ]

Protection circuits can fail and they add some resistance to the battery.
For that you get protection against over discharge (Very importance), over charge and over current (No meltdown or explosion if the battery is shorted).

What type of battery is best depends very much on the light in question, as long as the light will not over discharge a battery and you are careful not to short it (I.e. never keep loose batteries in your pocket) I would prefer unprotected. If a light can over discharge a battery it can be a complex question, for most light that will work with a single LiIon cell and nothing else the answer is that it will not over discharge, for other lights you get into the complex part.

 

[Lights and Guns]

Thank you sir! Very helpful!

so the light in question doesn't use direct drive - it's capped and uses 1 IMR 18350 cell. I'm assuming in this case you'd suggest the unprotected cell? So you don't have to worry about the protection circuit failing and causing your cell to become dead ?

 

[StagMoose]

That would be my personal preference. I haven't seen a light that runs direct drive yet that doesn't get so dim you are aware the battery needs to be charged. It is usually pretty apparent when the cells require a charge to me so I prefer unprotected, particularly in single cell lights.

 

[Lights and Guns]

Thanks for the input stag!

 

[WalkIntoTheLight]

Flashlights generally use one of two different kinds of drivers to power the LED.

1. An unregulated driver. This is sometimes partially regulated, like a linear driver, or could be a FET or direct drive. In both cases, when the battery gets low, the light slowly dims for a long time. Usually it will last for hours as it gets dimmer. It won't drain the battery to a dangerous level, as long as you can see light coming from it. You'll know when the battery is getting low. Sometimes, these flashlights have built-in low voltage protection, so it will shut itself off before the battery gets to dangerously low levels.

2. A regulated driver, such as a boost or buck driver. These are usually found on more expensive lights. They will suck the same power from the battery, regardless of its charge level, keeping the same output on the light until the battery is almost completely drained. Then, it will either step-down to a low brightness level, or shut off completely. At that point, the battery will be quite low, though unlikely to be dangerously low yet. It might still work for a couple of hours at a low level. But you'll want to change the battery as soon as it's convenient. Usually, these flashlights have built-in low voltage protection, so it will shut itself off before the battery gets to dangerously low levels.

In both these cases, I use unprotected cells. The only time I'd consider protected cells in in multi-cell lights that use them in series.

 

[Lights and Guns]

Very interesting! Thank you for that walkintothelight!

I am now somewhat annoyed i ordered 4 protected cells - but I guess it's good to have different cells laying around just incase. In the future it sounds like I'll be going the unprotected cell route - considering my lights are generally smaller 1 cell lights.
I guess I'll continue using my unprotected cells and use the protected ones as back ups!

I appreciate the response and am excited to diver deeper and learn more.

 

[altermann]

All protected keeppowers i have are out of declared dimensions, 16650 is more 17,5 * 68 mm and stuck in e series Surefire
Protected 18650 very close to 19*680
I removed protection circuit boards from all ot them

 

[HKJ]

Very interesting! Thank you for that walkintothelight!

I am now somewhat annoyed i ordered 4 protected cells - but I guess it's good to have different cells laying around just incase. In the future it sounds like I'll be going the unprotected cell route - considering my lights are generally smaller 1 cell lights.
I guess I'll continue using my unprotected cells and use the protected ones as back ups!

I appreciate the response and am excited to diver deeper and learn more.

Protection usually adds between 2 and 5mm to the battery length, sometimes slightly more, especially if there is a build in USB charger.
Only exception is when using under sizes batteries and I have seen very few of them.

Thickness will also usually be larger, due to the strip connecting from the front to the protection in the back. There is a few cells with protection in the front and they do not have that strip.

 

[Katherine Alicia]

I removed protection circuit boards from all ot them

Pity you lived so far away, I`d gladly take them off your hands!
As much as I dislike fitting them, I don`t have much choice because I`m using them in Incans.

 

[Lights and Guns]

All protected keeppowers i have are out of declared dimensions, 16650 is more 17,5 * 68 mm and stuck in e series Surefire
Protected 18650 very close to 19*680
I removed protection circuit boards from all ot them

I have heard about this being an issue for some flashlights not having the space to house the protected cells. Luckily the flashlight I'm mainly buying these cells for does indeed accept them. - it'll be interesting to see if my other 18350 lights will, Ive always used unprotected cells with them!

 

[Lights and Guns]

Protection usually adds between 2 and 5mm to the battery length, sometimes slightly more, especially if there is a build in USB charger.
Only exception is when using under sizes batteries and I have seen very few of them.

Thickness will also usually be larger, due to the strip connecting from the front to the protection in the back. There is a few cells with protection in the front and they do not have that strip.

Gotcha, I guess that'd make sense - more features so ya need a lil extra room to cram them in to. It seems like protected cells have way more drawbacks then pros unless being used in a flashlight that requires multiple cells to power.
Going forward I will continue to buy unprotected cells.

Question though, if a flashlight runs multiple cells in a parallel manner - this would be much safer than a light that stacks them on top of each other in a tube, correct?

 

[Katherine Alicia]

Question though, if a flashlight runs multiple cells in a parallel manner - this would be much safer than a light that stacks them on top of each other in a tube, correct?

yeah, if you`re going to use them in series then you need some form of protection for each of them, in parallel it`s not so critical, but it`s best to have matched batteries and to check them regularly that they`re still matched.

 

[Lights and Guns]

yeah, if you`re going to use them in series then you need some form of protection for each of them, in parallel it`s not so critical, but it`s best to have matched batteries and to check them regularly that they`re still matched.

Alright, thought so - thank you!

Would you mind embellishing on checking if they are still "matched" for me? Thanks!

 

[Katherine Alicia]

Well assuming you bought them all together and from the same batch and keep charging them ALL (not just one at a time) at the same time, take note of the voltage of each after charging, then leave them for a few days and recheck the voltage again, they Should be the same, and if they`re not then they`re on their way to going their own seperate ways, but as long as they keep in step give or take a few milivolts they`ll be fine.
That`s probably one of the easiest way to check that`ll give you an indication.

 

[Lights and Guns]

Well assuming you bought them all together and from the same batch and keep charging them ALL (not just one at a time) at the same time, take note of the voltage of each after charging, then leave them for a few days and recheck the voltage again, they Should be the same, and if they`re not then they`re on their way to going their own seperate ways, but as long as they keep in step give or take a few milivolts they`ll be fine.
That`s probably one of the easiest way to check that`ll give you an indication.

Much appreciated, I will now go and do some research on this! - I've never checked the voltage on cells before. Good thing I don't use my multi cell light often!

 

[HKJ]

Question though, if a flashlight runs multiple cells in a parallel manner - this would be much safer than a light that stacks them on top of each other in a tube, correct?

Correct, in parallel you only need to worry about one voltage and the capacity of each cell do not matter.
In series any mismatch in capacity will be a problem with unprotected cells and that is very likely to happen.

 

[Random Dan]

It's worth mentioning that the reason it is important to match cells is that if one runs out first the other cell will attempt to "charge" it, which is when things can go poof. Even if the cells are matched the front cell will typically run out first in high drain applications.