Keyed or keyless drill chuck?

[Mirage_Man]

I am in need of a new drill chuck that has a capacity of at least 5/8". My current Jacobs keyed chuck is 1/2". I'm hoping some of the more experienced machinists (cough...Barry ) will have some advice on whether a keyless chuck has the gripping power of a keyed chuck?

Edit: I thought I should mention that the chuck will be used almost exclusively tail stock mounted on my lathe. Not that it matters but it's got a 3MT mount.

 

[kromeke]

For 5/8ths capacity, I'd look at a large Jacobs chuck. A 16n would be a good choice.

I would look for new old stock or a used one. Jacobs has offshored manufacturing to China. Early reports say quality not the same.

If money is no object, and this is for a production environment, get an Albrecht keyless chuck. I haven't used one that big, but if they are as good as the smaller ones, they are the best, provided you are using it in the RH direction, they let go in the LH direction.

Edit: I really like the SPI brand Ultra Precision drill chuck. I didn't recommend it at first because I didn't know they made a 5/8ths capacity model. I have 2 of the 1/2 capacity models in my shop and I think they are bargains. Albrecht style and well made in Taiwan. Penn tool (whom I've never dealt with) has them listed at $109.85 http://www.penntoolco.com/catalog/products/products.cfm?categoryID=1574

Edit #2: Enco has it on sale. Says they are discontinued: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INSRAR2&PMAKA=319-3106&PMPXNO=19506511 $72.95

I'm sure with Enco you can return it if unsatisfied. You'll eat the return shipping though.

 

[gt40]

I would look on ebay for an Albrecht. I got a 5/8" one cheap. I am extremely happy with it. It just holds and is easy to work.

What type of mount?

To get you started, here are a few:

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=5%2F8%22+Albrecht&_sacat=0&_odkw=Albrecht&_osacat=0&bkBtn=&_trksid=p3286.m270.l1313

 

[precisionworks]

the chuck will be used almost exclusively tail stock mounted on my lathe. Not that it matters but it's got a 3MT mount.

For lathe use, a keyed Jacobs Super Chuck is hard to beat. The best approach (IMO) is to have a small chuck like the 11N or 14N, plus a big chuck like the 18N or 20N. The little chucks do a nice job on small shanks, while the big ones grip like death ... the 20N has 4X the grip torque of the "standard" 14N.

http://www.jacobschuck.com/images/products/super chucks Update (ENG).pdf

My 14N and 20N trade places all the time :nana:

some advice on whether a keyless chuck has the gripping power of a keyed chuck?

IMO, the Albrecht keyless has at least as much grip torque at the Super Chuck 14N, and probably as much as the 16N or 18N. They just cannot be made to slip. But any keyless chuck, including the Albrecht, may not be the best tool for tailstock use.

For drilling & holding straight shank reamers, the keyless does a nice job. Tapping is the operation that causes problems. If you don't power tap in (& power reverse out) the Albrecht will do fine. If you plan to do much tapping with the chuck holding the tap stem, stay with the Super Chuck.

 

[darkzero]

I would look on ebay

Yup, gotta love ebay, got my 5/8 Bison chuck for $56 shipped brand new & I love it although the only other chucks I've used were China keyless chucks here at home & the Jacobs 14N & 16N in shop class. Next course starts in 2 weeks.

 

[cmacclel]

I bought the SPI precision keyless from Enco and am thrilled with the quality. I also have a 5/8 Rohm that I'm not sol thrilled with. I would recommend the SPI!

Mac

 

[Mirage_Man]

I bought the SPI precision keyless from Enco and am thrilled with the quality. I also have a 5/8 Rohm that I'm not sol thrilled with. I would recommend the SPI!

Mac

So it works good in your tailstock? How well do you think it will work holding that 5/8" drill I told you about?

 

[cmacclel]

Hold you say

I was 3" into a hunk of Ti when a chip got caught. The chuck never slipped but did come off the arbor TWICE!

I had to really hit the chuck onto the arbor. I have not had a problem since.

Mac

 

[precisionworks]

The chuck never slipped but did come off the arbor TWICE!

Same thing happened to my Bison keyless used on the mill ... put it on eBay & got my money back, bought an Albrecht with integral shank.

No way that one will ever slip :nana:

 

[gadget_lover]

I like my nice keyless 5/8 chuck. I was not expecting it to be as tall as it turned out to be. On a small mill or lathe it can take up a lot of 'Z' when combined with a large drill.

Daniel

 

[precisionworks]

I was not expecting it to be as tall as it turned out to be.

Some setups are Z challenged

For those, instead of a drill chuck, the ER-40 collet chuck makes a much shorter setup. First, it projects a shorter amount below the spindle nose. Second (and of even more value) is that the twist drill can be pushed way up inside the collet so that the collet grips the flutes of the drill instead of the shank.

If a screw machine drill is used, the drill projection is often tiny. That also give a more rigid setup & the drill point is less likely to wander when starting a hole.

 

[Mirage_Man]

For those, instead of a drill chuck, the ER-40 collet chuck makes a much shorter setup.

Thanks to you Barry that's what I use in my mill. I have not had the need to take the collet chuck out of the mill since I got it . I suppose I could have used in it in the lathe except for the fact that it has an integral R-8 shank.

 

[kromeke]

I have no troubles using the SPI keyless chuck in the lathe. I specifically have 2 of the same chuck, one with R8 shank and the other with a MT3 for the lathe.

 

[Mirage_Man]

Well I went to buy one of the SPIs and they're freakin discontinued!

 

[precisionworks]

Click on this link & go to page 21: http://www.plazamachinery.com/files/metal8-11-2010.pdf

ALBRECHT SUPER SPECIAL
We have some excellent, keyless ½" Albrecht chucks, made in Germany. We selected our best chucks in stock, disassembled, cleaned. They are quality, smooth operating used chucks, $100.00 (new are about $250.00) Specify shank needed, Morse 2, Morse 3, ½" straight add, $6.00. For R8 shank, $23.00. Shipping in the 48 states is $7.00 (see our return policy if not completely satisfied).

Albrecht, made in Germany, 5/8 capacity, very beautiful with R8 shank, $140.00

An Albrecht for $100 is a better deal than can often be found on eBay, and Joe is easy to work with. I have my paycheck direct deposited to his account

 

[Mirage_Man]

Click on this link & go to page 21: http://www.plazamachinery.com/files/metal8-11-2010.pdf

ALBRECHT SUPER SPECIAL
We have some excellent, keyless ½" Albrecht chucks, made in Germany. We selected our best chucks in stock, disassembled, cleaned. They are quality, smooth operating used chucks, $100.00 (new are about $250.00) Specify shank needed, Morse 2, Morse 3, ½" straight add, $6.00. For R8 shank, $23.00. Shipping in the 48 states is $7.00 (see our return policy if not completely satisfied).

Albrecht, made in Germany, 5/8 capacity, very beautiful with R8 shank, $140.00

An Albrecht for $100 is a better deal than can often be found on eBay, and Joe is easy to work with. I have my paycheck direct deposited to his account

Yes, but is that an integral r8 shank? If it is I can't use it in my tail stock.

 

[precisionworks]

is that an integral r8 shank?

No way to tell from the description, but an email to Joe will get a pretty quick response. If the shank is the "normal" Jacobs taper, a pair of Jacobs chuck wedges make fast work of separating shank from chuck body.

http://www.jacobschuck.com/product_details.asp?pid=29

 

[Mick]

A wee bit off topic here but check the specs and price of this chuck.

http://www.glacern.com/drill_chucks

Do you believe .0005 TIR?

Also check their ER collet specs.

 

[darkzero]

Those Glacern chucks look nice. Have TiN cotaed jaws & the price is very good. I was going to get one with a MT3 integral shank but they sold out very fast when they first started offering them so I ended up getting something else.

 

[Mirage_Man]

A wee bit off topic here but check the specs and price of this chuck.

http://www.glacern.com/drill_chucks

Do you believe .0005 TIR?

Also check their ER collet specs.

Meh, their MT3 only takes up to 1/2" :sigh:.