LED Animal Defense

[OfficerCamp]

I'm currently at work, so I'll make this quick;
I was finishing up my offsite sweeps and exiting a building when I started to hear a dog bark. Having my flashlight still in hand I immediately starting surveying the area looking for the animal; I found it accross the street and illuminated it with the spillbeam of my light. The instant I shined the light away from the dog, it started charging me, full sprint. I switched my light back on and gave the dog a shot of hot spot directly in the face. The little monster immediately stopped in it's tracks and sat in the street, appearing to be stunned. I moved closer towards my vehicle parked on the street, keeping my beam focused on the dog, with a can of OC in my other hand. The owner came out about 15 seconds later, leashed it, and took it into the house.
I am unaware of how this dog was trained, and do not know if this dog would have actually harmed me. Luckily, I did not have to find out, and did not have to use intermediate force upon the animal. Flashlights Rule!

Light was an EagleTac T20C2 powered by AW RCR123s.

 

[1 what]

Great story and interesting observation. Also a neat escape with a happy ending for the pooch. I'd be keen to find out if anyone else has had similar (or different) experiences.

 

[OfficerCamp]

Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad it turned out the way it did, I don't think I'd sleep too well this morning if I had to injure someone's domestic animal, they act mostly on instinct (fight, eat, kill, nurture), people on the other hand.... well that's another story haha!

 

[fareast]

One night I was out running through my little village. This night I took a different route (longer) and I came across different people. It was pretty late and already dark. We do not have much ambient light where I live/run. I run on the other side of the road (against traffic on the bikelane to make sure I see traffic coming towards me. Suddenly I see this little doggie coming at me as if from the movies (gnarling and barking and basically compensating for it's diminutive size) and I think nah, it can't hurt me but I did not want to get dirty or what-have-you-not to keep it off of me so in my hand I always have this NEX when out running and I just twisted it tight and lit up the doggie's eyes. It did exactly what you described: it went into a shut-up and listen mode. I was slightly amused... and happy it wasn't a bigger doggie. The owner did say to me he doesn't bite. Sure, but I will. Leashing a dog is obligatory here cause of this.

 

[Larbo]

The owner did say to me he doesn't bite.

This is exactly what EVERY dog owner says before the FIRST time...Think about it.:ironic:

 

[jzmtl]

Lol, as the owner of every vicious dog that had to be put down because they either maimed or killed others, and they'll tell you it's the most adorable and sweet thing in the world.

 

[Owen]

The only light I've ever seen stop a dog was the 3D Maglite I bashed one in the head with when it attacked me while jogging years ago(lmao, jogging w/3D Mag-that's been a few years). I've shined all my lights, from turbohead incans with SF MN21 to keychain LEDs, at neighbors' dogs and cats to see their reaction, and they usually don't even avert their eyes. My neighbor's cat runs over every time I walk outside, and I can continuously shine my E2DL directly into her eyes as she approaches me. Her pupils contract, but she walks right up and rubs against my leg without even seeming to notice.
If you think a light is a defense against animal attack you're only fooling yourself.

 

[Wattnot]

Just a quick factoid: OC spray made for humans can kill a dog. If it's justified, then no problem. I just wanted to make sure people knew that. They make a spray for dogs that will stop the attack but not kill them. I believe letter carriers and other home service professionals use it.

 

[datiLED]

I had a dog come after me and my family when we were out for our evening walk. Every time we turned our back, the dog would come closer to us. When I shined my light in it's eyes, it would freeze (Waion 4th Gen. VB-16). I had my family walk ahead, while I walked backwards with the light in the dogs eyes. Once we got a few hundred feet away, the dog lost interest, and walked the other way.

If you think a light is a defense against animal attack you're only fooling yourself.

I had no illusions about that fact. I had the light in my left hand, and my right hand was ready to open my Gerber. I would not hesitate to use a knife on any animal that threatens my family. Even if it is someone's pet. Our community requires that animals be leashed if they are outside. The frequency that this is ignored bothers me. Almost as much as the people who do not clean up their dog's poop when walking in the park, or through the neighborhood. :shakehead

 

[Pöbel]

a friend of mine is a professional dog trainer (for police dogs and such) and told me that his dog (Malinois) does not seem to be affected by bright light as much as we humans are.

 

[KiwiMark]

My neighbor's cat runs over every time I walk outside, and I can continuously shine my E2DL directly into her eyes as she approaches me. Her pupils contract, but she walks right up and rubs against my leg without even seeming to notice.

There has been mention on these forums of how long it takes for your eyes to adapt to the dark (30-60 minutes I think) and how quickly that dark adaption can be ruined (1 sec of bright light will wipe out the dark adaption). This doesn't apply to cats - their eyes adapt to light conditions at a speed that humans can only marvel at. I have never seen a cat bothered by bright light or by darkness. I feel so inferior with my rubbish human senses.

For a dog - I imagine the effect from shining a bright light on a dog at night would vary from dog to dog. Maybe it would be effective, maybe not.

 

[LuxLuthor]

I have repelled many a cat, a few dogs, a dozen skunks, several racoon, and 3 coyotees with Saabluster's DEFT, which is not an ordinary light. In all cases except the coyotee, the first reaction is to freeze (coyotee's seem to realize their rear, stealth approach has been foiled--and immediately run away). Some animals take longer to turn and either walk or run away, notably cats and skunks.

I also carry a small sprayer of "Muzzle" (0.35% capsaicin), and a 130dB personal alarm but have not need to use either.

 

[mdhammack]

Night time walks in my neighborhood usually require my Surefire 9P. Pretty much all I need because I have a good amount of ambient lighting. But just for my own, and family's safety, there is just no substitute for my .45 ACP. Especially after seeing the park near the front of the neighborhood turn into what it has. :shakehead

 

[OfficerCamp]

Good stuff guys, good stuff, and great info/stories. It's pretty safe to say that all animals will have a different reaction to a strong light shined in their eyes; some will attack in the general direction of the light, some will stop and evaluate the situation, and some will run away. I'm just glad (for the animals sake) that I got the reaction from the animal that I did. My department authorizes the use of OC on any animal or human that attacks it's personnel (intermediate level force), which is fortunate for A: the officers, as this allows us to create distance from a threat while still remaining less-lethal and B: the animals (or humans) which have a much better chance of survival vs. when lethal force is applied.

Now if this was a 100lb rabid rotweiler looking for a steak dinner, the outcome may have been much different.

Self defense is all about options, good to see you guys are using your judgement to keep yourself and your families safe, while staying within the boundaries of the law.

 

[blasterman]

A few years ago I was visting a friend of mine who was a retired tactical police dog trainer. We were screwing around in the backyard playing with his 130lb Rotweiler, and while not a typical police dog breed, his Rottie was trained to imobilize on command. He actually preferred this dog (and Akita's) when he freelanced for private security because both breeds are stronger in front of the shoulders than shephards.

Anyways, I was holding a generic 6million candlepower halogen torch and using it to illuminate a tennis ball we were tossing around for Zeus. As a joke, he gave Zeus the command to subdue, and even pointing the light directly in the dogs face found myself on my back in about 3 seconds with the dog firmly clamped around my wrist and flashlight gone.

Short version - I'll trust the light from a flashlight to scare away a critter that is only looking for a reason to NOT attack in the first place, such as most of the stories above. As the guy said above, and animal that wants to attack and do damage isn't going to be deterred by a few hundred lumens of collimated light.

 

[outersquare]

my exroomies cat was not fazed at all by E2DL shined inches away from her face.

 

[xenonk]

If you shine a light at an animal with good light adaptation (like a dog) and they stop, it's not because you've dazzled them but because you've confused them. Suddenly it's daylight and what they were looking at is somehow behind the sun.

This doesn't apply to cats - their eyes adapt to light conditions at a speed that humans can only marvel at. I have never seen a cat bothered by bright light or by darkness. I feel so inferior with my rubbish human senses.

Well, I wouldn't exactly call human sight inferior just because of a light adaptation. Cats can't focus well, can't resolve fine detail, and have very poor colour perception.

If you had a cat's eyes, the first thing you would notice is that there's something moving right here: :nana:
However you would not be able to tell what it was nor read any of this text.

 

[LuxLuthor]

Self defense is all about options, good to see you guys are using your judgement to keep yourself and your families safe, while staying within the boundaries of the law.

I was surprised to learn that all of the self-defense "stun guns" are prohibited under CT law as a "dangerous weapon" for ordinary citizens....although I always had doubts about how practical it would be to have a person/animal get close enough to be able to use it anyway.

I have yet to spray that "Muzzle" which I should probably do just to see how it works. My luck, I would pull it out in an emergency of a charging coyotee or rabid dog, and be in such a panic that I would miss.

Short version - I'll trust the light from a flashlight to scare away a critter that is only looking for a reason to NOT attack in the first place, such as most of the stories above. As the guy said above, and animal that wants to attack and do damage isn't going to be deterred by a few hundred lumens of collimated light.

You may very well be right that I'm deluding myself as to why the various animals I mentioned fled against the DEFT, but it is way more than a few hundred lumen if you look at that link, and I just stood still shining it at them. While many animals (especially dogs) rely on their sense of smell, if intent on attacking they would likely do so.

The best benefit of this light is that it gives me 300+ yards of advance notice to take preventive steps. It is frightening to see how fast coyotees run though....over 40mph. They are also huge sizes around my area...larger than a Rotweiler, Pit Bull, Boxer, or Doberman.

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[OfficerCamp]

Lux, that is terrifying!

 

[Patriot]

They are also huge sizes around my area...larger than a Rotweiler, Pit Bull, Boxer, or Doberman.

Sheesh Lux! Are you serious? I had no idea. Those sound more like wolves.

Our coyotes out here top out at about 40 lbs.