LED flicker before UNprotected 18650 drops too far?

[TechnoBill]

1. I am a bonehead. (See item #2)

2. I ordered ten 2400 mAh 18650 Solarforce batteries but ordered UNprotected batteries. (See item #1)

3. SCENARIO ASSUMPTIONS:
……3a. Flashlight in which UNprotected batteries (UNs) will be used is Solarforce Masterpiece (SM).
……3b. Using Solarforce 2400 mAh 18650 protected batteries, this specific SM runs well beyond 80 minutes before power starts "dropping off" (Sorry, don't know appropriate technical term)
……3c. UNs will be used in SM for single use sessions (example: constant on during dog walk, off and on during dog walk) up to 60 minutes total run time w/in maximum session length of no more than 4 hours. (In other words this won't be a matter of using the light over the course of days, not even over the course of one day)
……3d. UNs will be removed from SM after 60 min. runtime and put in pocket being replaced by others (unlikely) or (very likely, 97% of instances) go directly into PILA IBC charger and monitored during charging. Removed immediately from charger upon "green light" individually.

4. SCENARIO EXTERNAL DATA: Lighthound, in reference to AW Unprotected 18650 2200 mAh rechargeable 3.6 volt battery http://www.lighthound.com/AW-18650-Unprotected-2200-mAh-Rechargeable-Lithium-Battery_p_106.html , states "Over-discharge is rarely a problem with these batteries, as incandescent flashlights will shut off and stop drawing current, and most LED flashlights will begin blinking rapidly."

5. Scenario QUESTION: Is it generally reasonable, not certain, not optimal, not the best way, not what I should have done, but is it generally reasonable to proceed with usage in accord with item #3, #3c specifically, under the assumption that with time, unknown variables, and unintended consequences, and aging that if the UNs begin approaching "bad discharge" (Sorry, don't know appropriate technical term) the SM will blink?

6. I AM LOOKING FOR an answer along the line of "Bill I'd stick with U.S. newly manufactured .308 caliber rounds with a bullet weight between 147 and 175 grains."

7. I am NOT looking for a comprehensive analysis of internal ballistics, external ballistics, and terminal ballistics, point of stabilization beyond the muzzle, Boat Tail Hollow Points vs. Boat Tail Full Metal Jacket, the operative impact of the different external ballistic coefficients of the bullets used in Black Hills ammo vs. Federal ammo, or the hotly debated issue of whether 168gr bullets or 175gr bullets are superior for a 20" triple lapped, stainless steel barrel with a right hand twist of 1:11.25" for supported personnel shots that may range from as little as 200 meters to as much as 600 meters and whether molybdenum coating is actually beneficial or just fairly dust for Kool-Aid drinkers. :thinking:

8. Might the answer to #5 also apply to other LED lights of current (One month ago and future) technology designed by manufacturer to use 18650s, such as Fenix, Olight, Tiablo, and Solarforce?

Thank you in advance from a low tech user ambling into a high tech section of the forum. :wave:

 

[bstrickler]

A simple solution would be to run it with the unprotecteds for 30 minutes, check the voltage, to make sure its not nearing 2.9ish volts, then (if its still above 2.9), run it for 10 minutes again, and rine-repeat, so you get a good understanding of how long it will be before the batteries drop to 2.9-3 volts.

Once you figure out how long it will run for before the batteries hit 2.9 volts, shave 5 minutes off that time, and you should be safe 99% of the time (allows you an extra 0.25 volts buffer room, in case you space out)

I ended up doing that with my WF-1000L flashlight, because DX had sent me some unprotected batteries. Oh well.

~Brian

 

[45/70]

7. I am NOT looking for a comprehensive analysis of internal ballistics, external ballistics, and terminal ballistics, point of stabilization beyond the muzzle, Boat Tail Hollow Points vs. Boat Tail Full Metal Jacket, the operative impact of the different external ballistic coefficients of the bullets used in Black Hills ammo vs. Federal ammo, or the hotly debated issue of whether 168gr bullets or 175gr bullets are superior for a 20" triple lapped, stainless steel barrel with a right hand twist of 1:11.25" for supported personnel shots that may range from as little as 200 meters to as much as 600 meters and whether molybdenum coating is actually beneficial or just fairly dust for Kool-Aid drinkers. :thinking:

Well TechnoBill, I'd say your best bet then, is to sell your Solarforce on BST and get a light that doesn't require much knowledge of battery cell chemisrty, safety, maintenance etc. Really.

Yes, you can run some tests to see how long it takes to discharge the unprotected cells to a certain level and so on, but it doesn't sound like you really want to do that. It'd be much easier for you to just get something that is simpler to use.

Li-Ion and lithium primary powered lights do require some knowledge before they can be used safely, as well as efficiently. If you don't want to spend the time and put in some effort to research how to do this properly, I'd say lithium powered lights just aren't for you.

If you want to continue with lithium powered lights, I suggest you read more about their proper use and handling, particularly with regard to the different chemistries, and types of cells. You seem to have a basic understanding of firearms, or are at least an enthusiast, why not take the time to learn about your lights? Guns and flashlights have one thing in common, they are both tools. The more you know about either, the more efficiently and safely they can be used.

Dave

 

[buickid]

Even with protected cells, you don't want to be running them into the low-voltage cut off constantly. They're there as more of a safety feature, and not made to repeatedly reset. With any cell that you get, you want to make sure you know where the light will be hitting low voltage on the cells.

I might suggest IMR18650 cells, they're safer than regular cells. If you do abuse them, they're a lot safer. Their chemistry makes it near impossible for them to "vent-with-flame" or otherwise explode. For now, I'd do what bstrickler said, and see if you light has some thing that indicates low-voltage, such as dimming or flickering.

 

[TechnoBill]

Thanks bstrickler, 45/70 and buickid! Well considered advice. Much obliged.

 

[Norm]

I would have liked to have read your whole post but couldn't get past line 2 :candle:
Norm

 

[buickid]

:lolsign::twothumbsLMAO

Guess I can't follow directions. :green:

 

[csshih]

Thanks bstrickler, 45/70 and buickid! Well considered advice. Much obliged.

the masterpiece seems to jump into a low mode when the battery is getting depleted in my runtime tests..
(protection circuit has not tripped yet)
so.. I would guess that once you notice the drop, the batteries roughly need recharging.

 

[TechnoBill]

You seem to have a basic understanding of firearms, or are at least an enthusiast, why not take the time to learn about your lights?

As the Executor of Mr. TechnoBill's estate, it grieves me to inform this august assemblage that Mr. TechnoBill's basic understanding of firearms was more accurately described as "rudimentary", and the least of his competencies did not even rise to the level of enthusiast but was rather more accurately described as a "poseur."

I offer the solace that he died doing what he loved, namely, irresponsibly dabbling with things of which he was willfully ignorant. His last foray into the Unresearched Country was hand loading pistol and rifle rounds. Unswayed by a slight mishap (documented in the photo below) he moved on to hand loading the Barrett .50BMG for use in the Barrett 82A1. There are no photos of the remains of the 82A1 as they have yet to be "processed" (read "removed") by the coroner.

Mr. TechnoBill's will stipulated that all his High Fidelity Audio reproduction equipment, and modest collection of illumination devices be bequeathed to a Mr. Craig S. Shih of Saratoga, California. If Mr. Shih would contact us via this forum's private message channel, we shall establish secure communications with Mr. Shih's counsel or that of his parents.

Mr. TechnoBill's firearms have been distributed to his friends and genuine enthusiasts at the club of which he was a member. Pending release of Mr. TechnoBill's remains by the County Coroner, a private graveside service will be held where those who knew him, with aforementioned arms, will desecrate his grave.

On a personal note, I shall always be grateful to Mr. TechnoBill for being an object lesson to all of us.

Sincerely,
Sanctimonia S. Specious
Attorney At Law

[click to enlarge]

 

[Sgt. LED]

HolY poop! How much powder was in there? Poor Python.

 

[45/70]

Damn Techno! I hope that really wasn't one of yours!

35 or so years ago when I was first getting into reloading, a friend that worked at my favorite dealer at the time showed me a 38 special revolver (some cheapo offbrand as I remember) that somebody had managed to slip a 357 Magnum into. The results were similar.

After reloading about 99+% of the time, mine still is in one piece.

I doubt the 2x123 Aleph 2, pictured, could provide nearly as much excitement as the Anaconda, but I really don't want to find out! Never run lithium primaries in a multicell, series application, with mismatched cells, or the results could be surprisingly similar.

Again, I hope that wasn't yours.

Dave

 

[TechnoBill]

Damn Techno! I hope that really wasn't one of yours!

No Worries Dave, but I appreciate your concern. Will Private Message you, as I've already taken the thread off topic.

Moderators, Appreciate the indulgence and am working to restrain my OCD (OffTopic Compulsive Disorder) .

 

[45/70]

OK Bill. Your PM has convinced me that you were just being humorous. I figured as much, but, a lot of folks don't take lithium's seriously.

I will try to return your PM later, or tonite, er something.

We'll turn it back to TechnoBill's original questions, rather than exploding firearms/flashlight comparisons.

Dave

 

[csshih]

:lolsign: PM Sent!!!

PS: it's just Craig Shih.. no middle name.
too many cshihs on the internet, so an extra s snuck in.

 

[TechnoBill]

PS: it's just Craig Shih.. no middle name.
too many cshihs on the internet, so an extra s snuck in.

Nonesense my good man! Thy given name is Craig, thy surname is Shih, thus csshih clearly denotes a middle name beginning with an "S" Spare me your banal excuses boy!


Kneel Master Shih, and don't squirm mind you, I've not drawn my sword since before the peasant uprising and even then I was usually halfway sober.


I dub thee Sir Craigory Smedly Shih, Lord of Saratoga, and rightful ruler of all vassals, slaves, and feisty wenches within that fertile land! Go forth, but heed these grave warnings; Always plunder with panache and a stately chivalric air, that the young lasses consider themselves blessed rather than ravished. And speak not of this to the Queen.