LED lights damage eyes and disturb sleep, European health authority warns

Midnight.Sun

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You're right, I actually have all the medical infomation I need about my condition, from my doctor and from the internet. Just thought by chance I can get some info from light science knowledge point if view, plus I have never heard before that we are born with natural UV filters in the eye.

I thought I had retinal detachment, and was afraid of, but no, my doctor found no tears anywhere in my retinal tissues. I only have those retinal transformations (the doctor's own words), beside the much earlier floaters of the humorous gel, which rarely leads to actual detachment, unless one is in advanced near-sight condition, or have close relatives with retinal detachment.
 

usdiver

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I have never heard before that we are born with natural UV filters in the eye.

Then why do we get sunburn on our skin and yet not go blind from the suns rays? I like my sunglasses but rarely actually "need" them.
Man made uv is totally different and therefore needs to be understood.
 

xevious

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Then why do we get sunburn on our skin and yet not go blind from the suns rays? I like my sunglasses but rarely actually "need" them.
Man made uv is totally different and therefore needs to be understood.
Yes, we do have some filtration within our own eyes, but we also have autonomic protection such as squinting, shielding with hand or hat, and looking away. ;) (yes, I know that's glare not UV). But UV damage to the eyes from the sun is a gradual thing, such as increased risk for cataracts. You like your sunglasses? USE THEM, especially if they're good quality. Btw, sunglasses need to be more than just reducing UVA/UVB exposure, but also have full optical correctness. The latter is often overlooked. I would stay away from unusually shaped sunglasses, because they're very likely far from optical correctness. While you can also check for focus change with/without glasses for short range, there is also the matter of long range. Because optical correctness is important, I try to stick with well known and trusted brands. Most of my sunglasses are made by Nikon. Their optical clarity and correctness is fantastic. Two of my favorites are made of tempered glass (a bit heavy), but I also have a pair made of polycarbonate (light). There are many other good brand choices out there as well.
 
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TechGuru

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and who sells fixtures with these in them...?

I'm wondering what Grainger has to offer since bigbox hardware stores only sell junk. Haven't felt like browsing their site on my 1mbps internet. Ya, I'm in the middle of nowhere, hence why I need bright lights.

*EDIT*

Browsed Grainger, only finding 5000K LED floods...
 
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xevious

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Fascinating. I had no idea Citizen Electronics Corporation in Japan made LED's. Apparently this is a subsidiary of Citizen Watch Co, which was established in 2004 (although they made some LED products starting in 2000). I sent an email inquiry to them about vendors using their LED emitters.

Very curious contact page for this... as the CAPTCHA mechanism is something I've never seen before. Instead of typing a displayed code, a series of letters is shown with the instructions to drag them over to the right in the proper order to spell a word (in this case for me, it was "WHITE"). It worked. Pretty neat.
 
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Midnight.Sun

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xevious,

Thanks for post 43#

Do you think my one session of working under high summer sun for ~ 8 hours none stop, suddenly after years of not seeing much sun light (I also worked without drinking any water or food and hadn't eaten much in the day before so nutrition support was really bad) could all that have burned the retinal cells that have "transformed" on me (I think the doctor meant degenerated as he said they are thinning in retinal tissues when I asked him what does he mean by transformings). Can that one long acute sunlight session have speeded up or started my retinal degeneration, by definition retinal degeneration is a long term process, I had not had long periods of time accumulating gradual sunlight exposure, as I had not seen the sun normally over the last 7 years or so. The thing is that I had no signs of starting retinal degeneration in any of my previous eyes check up appointments, just the natural floaters of collagen fibbers due to the vitreous humorous liquidation thing, but I am also almost 39 years old now.
This sunlight session story I have not shared with my doctor because before the appointment I was thinking I have retinal detachment, because of the sudden big blind spot in my peripheral field of view, and it turned out to be that I have also multiple smaller blind (Grey) spots all around my peripheral field of view. Only after the check up and the diagnostic with retinal transformations (doctor's literal word) that I started to link it to the sunlight exposure session, which I had before forgotten about it completely when I went to the check up, but I will raise the issue next time, I'm now about one month late on my supposed 6 month regular check ups date, and will have to wait at least another month to be given an appointment.

Also do you have solid information about our natural UV filters inside our eyes, no matter how basic it is, what is it that you think this protection is, the eye lens? Cataract does make it yellowish and less clear, is that the UV filter you're talking about? I don't have Cataract.


*I'm not seeking medical information here, just like to hear opinions or personal experiences or any knowledge information.
 
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MeMeMe

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Fascinating. I had no idea Citizen Electronics Corporation in Japan made LED's. Apparently this is a subsidiary of Citizen Watch Co, which was established in 2004 (although they made some LED products starting in 2000). I sent an email inquiry to them about vendors using their LED emitters.

I believe the largest seller of COB LEDs and have been for a long time. JV with Nichia or at least was.
 

MeMeMe

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Man made uv is totally different and therefore needs to be understood.

You keep saying this, and it keeps remaining NOT TRUE or based in any facts.

Also, as stated, very few LEDs are based on UV technology, and normal blue + phosphor LED do not have UV.
 

MeMeMe

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Then why do we get sunburn on our skin and yet not go blind from the suns rays?

Before making claims such as you do, you may want to consider:

- The skin is somewhat opaque and absorbs most of the sunlight, especially the UV in the upper layers concentrating the damage
- Your skin and eye have different optical properties. Your skin absorbs light over wide angles. Your lens will focus light over a reduced angle, which would not, for any period of time, included a direct view of the sun. Your lens will also reflect light outside the critical angle .. not to mention being inset into your head, hence often being prevented exposure to direct sunlight

Skin gets burned when it has direct exposure to sunlight. Your eyes do not get direct exposure for any period of time ... you look away, and other physical realities of your head also come into play.
 

Midnight.Sun

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Deleted post.

It was posted without written content by mistake, only contained a quote.
 
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CerLo

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Personally I have found the danger caused by cool white LED's was mainly in my sleep cycle. I didn't know it was happening but lack of solid sleep was driving me nuts and messing with my health. Now I avoid any cool white lights/blue LED screen tints in the evening and all is much better.

I do worry that cities trying to save money will switch out their street lights with LED's of the wrong tint that will have subtle effects on a population.

You're on it. It's not mainly about where it comes from but when it comes. Time. Sun up. You're up. Sun down. You're down(sleep). The only light source I could stand behind after sundown would be fire. Kinda tough to do in this day and age. How important is your health to you?
 

MeMeMe

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You're on it. It's not mainly about where it comes from but when it comes. Time. Sun up. You're up. Sun down. You're down(sleep). The only light source I could stand behind after sundown would be fire. Kinda tough to do in this day and age. How important is your health to you?

Define Sundown .... is that after 8 hours of sunlight? 12 hours? 16 hours? 17 hours?
 

Midnight.Sun

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Your lens will also reflect light outside the critical angle ..
That's a new thought to me, thanks for bringing it up, but the lens is located inside the eye, so I'm not sure if you meant to say the Cornea is going to reflect light outside the critical angle, the Cornea is located the middle of the outer front layer part of the eye, forming like an entrance gate in front of the Iris, pupil, and lens which are all located inside the eye.

Anyway, the eye lens itself is a clear and flexible material that has the properties to refract, divert and concentrate light ray in many degrees according to it's flexible shape status, but also it shall have a bit of reflective properties as well, so it should reflect some small part of the light ray in the opposite direction, onto the iris (the eye colour part) and to the outside of the eye through the pupil I guess, but can't say how significant the reflected part would be compared to the part that is diverted and concentrated towards the inside, onto the Retina, Macula and Fovea sections.

Yes the Cornea and the lens have some reflective property like any other clear material, but that'd hardly form any considerable part of the eye defence mechanism IMO, and definitely not a UV filter by any means. Only with age and Cataract development the lens gets less clear and looks kind of yellowish, I think then it can form some kind of UV filter IMO.

There is no UV filter in the eye AFAIK. The Iris is not considered any filter either, but it is more important than a filter, it is the shutter that dictates how much light comes inside the eye by contracting and dilating forming a wide or narrow Pupil (hole). It is the most valuable part of the eye defence system against strong visible light, that's why the eye doctor needs give you drops before the session, to dilate the Iris/pupil and stop it from contracting when shining the flashlight into the eye through the pupil to examine the Retina and other inside parts.

Your eyes do not get direct exposure for any period of time ... you look away, and other physical realities of your head also come into play.
Of course, that's our automatic defence mechanism against strong visible rays of light, but the time of indirect exposure still counts, as even if we don't get direct exposure into our eyes, we do still take in all the reflected rays coming of all the objects in our field of view, especially the ground surface, and over time it counts, also the shape and colour of the ground and surrounding objects comes into play, the smoother the shape and the lighter the colour is, the more reflective it is (hence the big white satellite dish in my case).
 

xevious

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xevious,

Thanks for post 43#

Do you think my one session of working under high summer sun for ~ 8 hours none stop, suddenly after years of not seeing much sun light (I also worked without drinking any water or food and hadn't eaten much in the day before so nutrition support was really bad) could all that have burned the retinal cells that have "transformed" on me (I think the doctor meant degenerated as he said they are thinning in retinal tissues when I asked him what does he mean by transformings). Can that one long acute sunlight session have speeded up or started my retinal degeneration, by definition retinal degeneration is a long term process, I had not had long periods of time accumulating gradual sunlight exposure, as I had not seen the sun normally over the last 7 years or so. The thing is that I had no signs of starting retinal degeneration in any of my previous eyes check up appointments, just the natural floaters of collagen fibbers due to the vitreous humorous liquidation thing, but I am also almost 39 years old now.
This sunlight session story I have not shared with my doctor because before the appointment I was thinking I have retinal detachment, because of the sudden big blind spot in my peripheral field of view, and it turned out to be that I have also multiple smaller blind (Grey) spots all around my peripheral field of view. Only after the check up and the diagnostic with retinal transformations (doctor's literal word) that I started to link it to the sunlight exposure session, which I had before forgotten about it completely when I went to the check up, but I will raise the issue next time, I'm now about one month late on my supposed 6 month regular check ups date, and will have to wait at least another month to be given an appointment.

Also do you have solid information about our natural UV filters inside our eyes, no matter how basic it is, what is it that you think this protection is, the eye lens? Cataract does make it yellowish and less clear, is that the UV filter you're talking about? I don't have Cataract.

*I'm not seeking medical information here, just like to hear opinions or personal experiences or any knowledge information.
Hello Midnight.Sun,
You're welcome. As for your situation, I don't have medical knowledge sufficient enough to give you a solid answer. But in terms of practical understanding, I can't believe that a solid 8 hour day of high summer sun exposure caused you burned retinal cells. Our retinas do receive some short term damage from very bright light conditions, but will recover. One way you can visually see that is when you look at very bright light, then suddenly go into a dark room. You will see an after-image of the light for quite a while. Sometimes it can take up to an hour to fade off. The exposure you describe would not likely cause retinal detachment or degeneration.

I've been fortunate enough to have near 20/20 eyesight and I'm in my mid 50's. But focus time has changed, and near sight is challenging (have to hold books further away). I also have floaters... and as far as I've heard most everyone does. Unfortunate side effect of aging. Also, if you're a pilot or do a lot of driving, the very frequent pressure changes and vibrations can exacerbate it. Just try to avoid looking at white paper and walls. ;)

Overall, what you're describing about your eye situation does sound like a premature condition for your age. I could be a genetic predisposition or perhaps even nutritional. What doctors will fail to do is consider the nutritional aspect. This is key, making sure you eat the right foods and supplements that contribute to healthy eye function. I've not studied this, but had come across some content on this a few years back. There's plenty of info on-line if you search. But for it to have effect will take some time. Meanwhile, if I were you I would visit an optometrist (eye doctor) and get a 2nd opinion. Good luck.
 
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MeMeMe

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not sure if you meant to say the Cornea is going to reflect light outside the critical angle,

Of course, that's our automatic defence mechanism against strong visible rays of light, but the time of indirect exposure still counts, as even if we don't get direct exposure into our eyes, we do still take in all the reflected rays coming of all the objects in our field of view, especially the ground surface, and over time it counts, also the shape and colour of the ground and surrounding objects comes into play, the smoother the shape and the lighter the colour is, the more reflective it is (hence the big white satellite dish in my case).

.... did mean cornea.

w.r.t. reflected rays coming off surfaces, read back through the thread. This all started not about long term exposure, but short term. We take in the reflected rays, over a limited angle, and with a limited aperture.
 

Midnight.Sun

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Hello xevious,

Thanks for your opinion and good evaluation on the 8 hour exposure thing.

looks like me and you have some common eye situations, I'm also fortunate with good eyesight 9.5/10 each eye, I guess that's 19/20 by your country's medical terms, but my focus is still working now at my late 30's or early 40's (basically my 40th birthday is a year and some months away).

I have driven only cars and bicycles, I have driven cars of my ownership for more than 20 years, and had my fair share of pressure changes and a lot of vibrations (awful roads), but as it is the case with my sunlight long term exposure levels, I have not drived so much the past few years, only about 5% of the mileage I used to cover before 2011, and yet the floaters started in the recent years, but I know exactly how and when I finally triggered them out. The floaters started on me early although my 70 years old parents still don't have them, so it's not genetic nor natural premature, I caused them to myself with violent physical movement and the several falls on the back of my head through out my life, especially the first one at the age of 9 which was so strong, and near death experience, I passed away from morning till afternoon hours alone under the sun. Afterwards, the back of my brain kept frequently hurting me in full 24 hours cycles, every two weeks, or every 1 month sometimes, that continued for about 3 - 4 years then it all stopped at adolescence I guess. Then later I fell several times on the back of my head, either from on top of a ladder or walls and such things along the road of life, but I seem have gained strength in that area, stands up immediately a walk home for wound cleaning. But the violent movements that finally gave me the floaters and headache were the abnormal physical exercises I created for no logical reason 4 years ago, I was training like an Astronaut for impulsive reasons, I was possessed that chaos was coming towards my direction, and it was (I live in Syria), and was preparing for Armageddon I guess, but the storm of chaos eventually shifted away from me without needing my physical intervention lol.

*Rest in peace everyone whom lost their lives fighting the right battle, and thanks for every effort that went in the right direction, and is still going on. The right direction in Syria is subtle, mainly it is the direction of the silent many who knows the real history of the region, not the Arabic Islamic history that the Arab Nationalists authoritarian regimes, especially in particular the most active Al- Baath party, the ruling party in Syria now, and in Iraq before 2003, whom imposed their version of history and their education system on us the past 70 years, with covert collaboration with the Arabian Gulf states and the various Islamic organisations and brotherhoods, and with official collaboration with the Islamic republic of Iran, and recently Islamic Turkey.

Back to my optometrist, I didn't tell him anything about my physical activities, but he actually told me, he said the floaters are due to violent movements and I need to stay away from such activities. He was right, I tried to ask other questions, he said they were not a factor, and strictly insisted on his instructions.

I did my homework, a lot of online searching, especially after the recent retinal degeneration (transformations) diagnostic, and I came across the nutritional factor, and although my overall diet is relatively considered very good, but I found out I was lacking the nutrients that are especially good for the Retina, and I fixed my diet accordingly the past 6 months, I can say that I'm feeling better now, my condition has stopped progressing so far, that I'm not in so much hurry to take my next eye exam appointment.

As for a 2nd opinion, I was thinking of taking one when I was feeling worse, now I don't feel so urged, actually my doctor is considered the best in town, and the second reason is that I can barely stand one Iris dilating drops and flashlight exam every 6 month, I really think they are not good for my retina, my green eyes are so photophobic. So I'm now looking forward for the next generation of eye exams, the camera recording through the pupil, that does not require dilating the Iris and the use of flashlight, if I can manage to find this technology, anywhere nearby, I'll gladly take one of those for their higher accuracy and relief. That's the only situation I say no to flashlights lol.

Thanks, good luck to you too.
 
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alphaBRAVO

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A recent, and interesting read on "light pollution" from National Geographic:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...-paying-the-price-light-pollution-dark-skies/

Here in NYC, I can anecdotally relate first-hand, how the new LED street lamps absolutely wreck sleep. One solution being discussed for years now, and that I've seen implemented nowhere, is to add shielding.

https://gothamist.com/2017/04/21/ben_kallos_streetlight_fully_shield.php

As an aside, don't neglect to place your phones in "night shift" to sift blue light and shift its spectrum toward red at night. Mine does so automatically based on time or local sunset once I turned it on.
 

TechGuru

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As an aside, don't neglect to place your phones in "night shift" to sift blue light and shift its spectrum toward red at night. Mine does so automatically based on time or local sunset once I turned it on.

I run night shift full time by setting it to run from 3:00am to 2:59am. Turns off for 1 minute in the middle of the night every night. All TV's set to "WARM2" and computer monitor changed from factory 6500K to 5000K.
 
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