LED lights should only be used for general purposes

[Ilikeshinythings]

Unfortunately for LEDs, there is no replacement for displacement. In a way, you could say that Incans are to torque what LEDs are to horsepower...like a turbocharged 1.6 I4 honda civic (die) with a huge turbocharger (reflector) LEDs will probably NEVER have the overall power and output that incans have, but they have come a long ways and they still have a long ways to go. Unless you were to make the die as big, or bigger than an Incan bulb, and make it (almost) as warm as an incan bulb in color, there is no way that LEDs will probably ever put incans completely out of business. The good thing is that they're not in competition with eachother per say, so we can all purchase incan and LED lights at our own will. As far as tactical measures are concerned, I have never really encountered a tactical measure, but I would feel more confident holding a 6D maglite than a 1AAA pencil if I ever got in a fight. One good thing for LED fans is that "general purposes" is a hell of a broad category, and LEDs certainly fill that space up nicely.

 

[Brozneo]

My only thought is that LEDs are improving year-in and year-out, but incans are barely improving.

Yes! That's damn right! I haven't seen any incan improvements over the past while however LED lights are always on the up!

 

[LukeA]

Unfortunately for LEDs, there is no replacement for displacement. In a way, you could say that Incans are to torque what LEDs are to horsepower...like a turbocharged 1.6 I4 honda civic (die) with a huge turbocharger (reflector) LEDs will probably NEVER have the overall power and output that incans have, but they have come a long ways and they still have a long ways to go. Unless you were to make the die as big, or bigger than an Incan bulb, and make it (almost) as warm as an incan bulb in color, there is no way that LEDs will probably ever put incans completely out of business. The good thing is that they're not in competition with eachother per say, so we can all purchase incan and LED lights at our own will. As far as tactical measures are concerned, I have never really encountered a tactical measure, but I would feel more confident holding a 6D maglite than a 1AAA pencil if I ever got in a fight. One good thing for LED fans is that "general purposes" is a hell of a broad category, and LEDs certainly fill that space up nicely.

Bulb envelope size is irrelevant. The filament is the only part that emits light.

Saying 'never' is very dangerous when talking about a very quickly advancing technology.

 

[Boltgun]

I have been in the LEO circles for 20 years. I have used Maglites, Mini Maglites, Brightstars, Surefire, Gladius, Inova, Streamlight.

LED is defintely still behind incand for straight horsepower. I use a modded Gladius as my personal light for tactical and general use...however when I need throw, I have an M4 with MN61 bulb in it.

What the numbers fail to do is take into account the human element and psycology. Yes you can get slightly better effect from th eM4....however it is bigger....and with the Gladius Strobe, it has something that very few incands do.

I would say that LED is jumping leaps and bounds, and it won't be long before the field is even and then the pendulem will swing in favour of the LED.

You didn't do wrong on the modded Gladius.....use it in good health and enjoy every minute of it.

Boltgun

 

[GBone]

I can say this much, last night during a snow storm I spent a little time outside playing with a high power LED and an incan, and there IS a difference.

I was using a Gladius modded with a P4 Seoul and a SF C2 with a Lumens Factory 160 lumen bulb. The LED definitely reflected more light off of the falling snow then the incan did. Because of this it was much more difficult to see the target with the LED than with the incan. I assume the same amount of light was actually hitting the target using both torches, but the difference was that with the reflection the LED caused it was much more difficult to see the target using the LED than when using the incan.

So now I'm a bit unsure... Do I park the Gladius on the shelf during bad weather in favor of my C2, or not? Decisions decisions... :thinking:

 

[tebore]

Unfortunately for LEDs, there is no replacement for displacement. In a way, you could say that Incans are to torque what LEDs are to horsepower...like a turbocharged 1.6 I4 honda civic (die) with a huge turbocharger (reflector) LEDs will probably NEVER have the overall power and output that incans have, but they have come a long ways and they still have a long ways to go. Unless you were to make the die as big, or bigger than an Incan bulb, and make it (almost) as warm as an incan bulb in color, there is no way that LEDs will probably ever put incans completely out of business. The good thing is that they're not in competition with eachother per say, so we can all purchase incan and LED lights at our own will. As far as tactical measures are concerned, I have never really encountered a tactical measure, but I would feel more confident holding a 6D maglite than a 1AAA pencil if I ever got in a fight. One good thing for LED fans is that "general purposes" is a hell of a broad category, and LEDs certainly fill that space up nicely.

As much as I'd love to believe that analogy it's not correct. (Give me low end torque of a 350 over the whinny horsepower of a VTEC anyday.)

LEDs have come a long way and ARE kicking the butts of incans. That article is dated and I can see why he said the things he said.

LEDs also allow us to do things we couldn't do with Incans otherwise. Multi-output lights the size of our thumbs that scale battery life accordingly to brightness.

Also most EDC LED power lights are not designed for throw, they are designed with a useful beam (mix of throw and spill) and made small which means a small reflector.

That said there's still something about the beam of my Mag64 I love.

 

[angelofwar]

Here's why Incan's have a better effect on some animals...as far as logic is concerned...the "yelow" incan with it's stronger throw (assuming they both had approximately the same lumen output), would be way more visible to a deer, where as a "floodier" LED might just appear as a change in sunlight? Say the sun coming out from behind some clouds, and the white light (to a deer) would change...Just food for thought...

http://www.camoworx.com/compare.html

http://www.wildlifetimes.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=93

 

[MikeLip]

well, its like always a matter of opinion and mine is that: once I encountered the advantages of led lamps, incan lamps are as dead for me as disco. still the colour rendering is (usually) better with an incan, but that can be solved with a rebel 100 (that I prefer indeed over a Q5) or with a simple yellow filter.
considering all the advantages led lamps offer over incan lamps, I would say they win the race by 10:1 but like I said, its all a matter of opinion.

as for "tactical" reasons: I don't have to blind dogs or other animals (they get tasty morsals or if absolutely unavoidable a bit pepperspray (never had need for that on animals) - except those with two legs (no, not chicken ) and for that purpose, nothings works as good as a superwhite, bright led.



regards, holger

Wait, disco is dead????

My dog HATES my LED lights. This guy is not doing an apples to apples comparison. Put an LED light designed for throw against a throwy incan and now you have a more even race. I personally think whoever wrote this article is full of what comes out of the southern end of a northbound horse.

 

[WadeF]

Did the OP realize the date of that post before making this topic? Why make a topic about a 2 year old post? Obviously LED's have come a long way since then. Back when he posted that it probably made sense. He would probably have a different opinion now.

The OP should change the title to "2 years ago LED lights should only be used for general purposes"

 

[thiswayup]

What do you say to this statament?

http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/conclusion-LED-lights-general-purposes-t3174.html



I read this after I just bought a modded Gladius...........

Thoughts?

Joe

The guy is an animal abusing moron. The U2 is over-priced and based on obsolete technology, which SF can get away with because a large part of their market is clueless wannabe's who buy lights as fashion statements - and even so, SF are retiring it. He's so stupid he hasn't even noticed that supposed 60L output from the SF incan crashes down to a much lower level in minutes and burns through batteries in an hour: a similarly priced Fenix is effectively brighter and runs much longer. My LF5 isn't much more expensive than the cheapest SF and will put out more than double the light and is smaller, regulated, and multi-level. At the U2 price level Peak make a 400 Lumen adjustable, regulated LED.

In short, he is as witless as you'd expect from someone who test a light's abilityto cause pain by shining it in a puppy's eyes.

 

[yellow]

I was using a Gladius modded with a P4 Seoul and a SF C2 with a Lumens Factory 160 lumen bulb.

what is the runtime of the incan?
20 Mins?

Is the increased output of the incan-on-steroids worth to have only 1/6th of the runtime?
Then yes, the incan is still better.
If 2 hours runtime of the also very bright Led (and the possibility of lower levels that the incan cant give) is more important --> Led


... for "general purposes" incan is dead
(because general purpose does not mean that 1/2 hour runtime bulb - thats special purpose)

 

[thiswayup]

But wait! This guy gets even dumber:

I suspect that the reddish/yellow tones found in the incans are within the animals visual perception and the colorless white LED is not.

1. Sure. White light is invisible to dogs. That's why they can't see in daylight.

2. He doesn't know that white light is a mixture of colours???

 

[cruzmisl]

Did the OP realize the date of that post before making this topic? Why make a topic about a 2 year old post?

I did realize that when I posted it but I still think it's good conversation/debate despite it's age. He was comparing to a Gladius which at the time was an LED that was well received. Now with the upgraded Seoul P4 I'm not sure how it would compare....

 

[MikeLip]

1. Sure. White light is invisible to dogs. That's why they can't see in daylight.

So *that's* why my mutt keeps running into stuff!

 

[KeyGrip]

In all fairness, that was posted on Dec 30, 2005. A LOT has changed since then.....:candle:

That's a good point, and brings this article into context. Now, if someone were to contact that person requesting an updated evaluation of LED lights, we might get something a bit different.

 

[garence]

Well, he has one major point -- an incandescent light is still the most cost effective light source. True, it is not as versatile and will run larger in size, but when all you really need is a basic light with maybe two brightness modes, an incan beats an LED.

Now for cool factor, you can't beat an LED. The lumens output to size ratio is something the author didn't touch on and I think that's a pretty serious omission.

But the other thing--if we didn't buy LED lights, we wouldn't be helping to push the technology; few manufacturers would invest in making them and so the progress in advancement would be super slow. They will get smaller and more powerful in time... eventually the mid range LED's will mostly outperform incandescents independent of the hand-held size factor.

 

[iapyx]

hmmm LED vs INCAN again...

It's all relative.
Depends on your needs and whishes.

need a long runtime: LED wins
need a lot of throw: INCAN wins
don't want to have to change bulbs: LED wins
Need to cut through smog and fog: INCAN wins
Need a light that fits your pocket: LED wins
Need to light your cigarette: INCAN wins


I have a U2 which cost a lot of money.
I built a Mag85 and a Mag5761 that are cheaper and have a lot more lumens.

Sometimes the U2 on low (2 lumens if I am correct) is perfect.
The Mag mods are more for fun. (for me)

This is an endless discussion.
I am curious how LED lights will develope.
(As how INCAN lights will develope)
And that's why CPF is so nice to read.

2eurocents,
iapyx

 

[f22shift]

I assume the same amount of light was actually hitting the target using both torches, but the difference was that with the reflection the LED caused it was much more difficult to see the target using the LED than when using the incan.

So now I'm a bit unsure... Do I park the Gladius on the shelf during bad weather in favor of my C2, or not? Decisions decisions... :thinking:

blue reflects more than yellow. hence yellow foglights. it's the wavelengths. so your test makes sense. i think incandescent has it's purpose like leds.

has anyone ever seen a yellow saran wrap? i've seen pink.
for cheap bad weather soution for led ppl

 

[PhotonWrangler]

For me it comes down to simple ruggedness. Ifg you have an incandescent and you drop it on a hard surface, especially while it's on, there's a good chance that it'll burn out.

And if you have a flashlight with a burned out bulb, it doesn't matter what kind of color rendering or throw it had when it was working. The bottom line is that you're in the dark. And you suddenly look a lot tastier to that wild animal.

Results matter more than pedigree or tradition.

 

[TorchBoy]

blue reflects more than yellow. hence yellow foglights. it's the wavelengths.

Blue light scatters more than yellow light does. They both reflect (depending on the colour of the object they're reflecting off).