LED lights should only be used for general purposes

[idiotekniQues]

that article is just outdated.

 

[Crenshaw]

actually, i think thats true, its outdated, by alot, we are all posting assuming current led tech, that post is old..cruzmisl shoudlnt have brought it up...

its okay though..

this thread should be reposted as "LED effectiveness against animals" or something, to discuss what it appears too have become a thread about..

Crenshaw

 

[gilly]

As a Law Enforcement Officer, I can say that many of us are going to the LED side. Recently at night fire quals I was showing off my L2D CE to a bunch of Troopers who still typically carry the Mag Charger. All were impressed by the 2 X AA light and many were interested in getting one. In my particular unit, we all agreed to switch our issued Mag Chargers over to the LED replacement head. (runtime outweighed output for what we needed - although the newest upgrade is just as bright)

On the SWAT team, our standard issue M-4 is equipped with an LED weapons-light.

....just to give you all an idea of what some in Law Enforcement are doing nowadays.

Oh - and by the way...

If you're threatened by an animal, there's no time to see if a flashlight is going to deter it - pepper spray comes out in your non-shooting hand with your shooting hand ready on the holstered weapon -- or you'll have a set of fangs in your leg! Been a cop all of 13 years and never heard of anyone using their flashlight to deter a threatening animal.

 

[woodrow]

The funny thing about all these led vs. incan threads is, that after being here for a while, you can pretty much guess what is going to be written by a poster (includeing myself) when you see their name.

Something about these threads makes them sooo hard to resist putting your .02 in though. Even if it is the same .02 as you put in last time...and the time before that...and the time before that.

 

[TorchBoy]

Well, woodrow, I'm trying hard to come up with something that you don't already know I'll say, but all I can think of is that maybe I should find me a puppy.

Just kidding.

Seriously, do any animals see IR?

 

[PhantomPhoton]

Ohhhh, them's fightin' words!

We can't blame the general population for not knowing about Cree, SSC, Rebels, TFFC K2s, Osram Ostars, Edison KLC8s, and Nichia DS leds. We can't blame the poster for it either, as they hadn't been invented yet when this was posted.

But anyway
He's making lux claims but isn't providing any reference to where he's getting the data... not to mention he's measuring "overall output" in lux. :huh: Perhaps he's using a shoebox style measurement system? Again he's not giving any references to how he came about the data. Therefore all of his claims are essentially invalid imo.

With both the U2 and the striker he is using an old LED, a Luxeon V and a Luxeon III. If he wants to test a throw, than he needs to test an LED designed for throw... even an old Lux III VG Striker will out throw a SF G2 with P60 bulb. Though he never did specifically state what was in the G2.

And shame on him for "testing" lights out in the eyes of puppies.

Beyond that, calling incans king with no mention of HIDs further illustrates lack of knowledge. We really should educate that guy.

In his defense he does bring up a decently argued point, that incans will have better visibility in weather. I think the jury is still out on this. However he fails to mention the single most important advantage of Incan lights, color rendition. CRI and depth perception are essential in some instances. I know that I much prefer the light of an incan lamp at times.

Hopefully the above string of thoughts made sense. I don't feel like writing out a point for point critique and argument with someone who posted his opinions 2 years ago on some other forum. If you like incans better that's fine. I love them too. But tactical sized incans aren't king of the hill anymore... that was way back in the year 2000.

 

[TorchBoy]

However he fails to mention the single most important advantage of Incan lights, color rendition. CRI and depth perception are essential in some instances.

Remember that a 12V bulb run on 6V still has a CRI of 100, because even though it's a dull brown colour, it's still a black body radiating. A dim white LED of the same lumens will give better colour recognition. (How's that for fighting words?)

 

[M I K]

REPEL a visious animal? Heck when it comes to visious ones, all I need my light beam for is to illuminate an area to focus my front sight on.

 

[half-watt]

Seriously, do any animals see IR?

yes. Owls can see into the IR wavelengths, perhaps some other animals can also. last i read of experiments (decades ago) it is thought that both domestic and wild canines can also see into the IR wavelengths. Also, canine low light vision (different from seeing IR wavelengths) is at least 5x better than humans.

just to address other Posts in this Thread relative to light, etc. as deterrents against agressive canines:


i have trained dogs for over 20yr (basic & advanced obedience, on-lead/off-lead, distraction training, verbal/non-verbal commands, also "whisper" commands which were used by the military in the 70's, attempted behavior modification of behaviors - mixed success in this regard, tracking, and personal protection).

i get mixed reactions from my dogs with LEDs - sometimes blink/flinch reaction; sometimes not. they sure act differently than humans though in terms of degree and duration of the reaction. i haven't done systematic tests and haven't figured out yet why the variation in reactions. i wouldn't trust light as a deterrent for an aggressive dog on an attack run. i haven't tried incands either, so i hesitate to comment. dogs are quite different in temperment and also state of agitation - as such reactions can run a gamut of responses to stimuli. canine psyche and instinct is the primary key to their responses, followed by training (taught by their mother, learned as part of their life experience, or informally/formally taught to them by a human).

personally, pepper-spray is my choice. i wouldn't count on an animal with nearly 70% of its brain geared toward olfactory to react to visual cues when it is highly riled and acting instinctively. it's illegal to carry pepper-spray [for self-defense purposes - don't know what other purposes it has?!!!] in my State, but one can genreally get away with a product like "Halt". USPS Carriers are "armed" with it. if one is walking a dog or in an area where people, in violation of local regulations/laws allow their dogs off-lead or to roam free - IF the LEO who spots the small can of HALT is not in a bad mood. i only carry a much larger can of bear spray when backpacking - haven't had any LE related problems yet in this regard (it's illegal to do so, however, in Canada [or at least Canadian Parks], we read this before a trip to Banff - not sure of the rational with Griz' in Banff. bears have a more highly developed olfactory sense than even bloodhounds.

canine hearing is so good that they can hear cockroaches crawling around inside of a building's walls. they just DON'T feel the need to "alert" or react to the sound. yet, indoors, with the windows open, they'll react to the sound of my wife's car when it is just over 1/4mile away (her car is a Mazda 3 - so, fairly quiet). their hearing can also pinpoint the source of a sound to a 5 deg arc, whereas the best humans can do is ~20deg. our dogs make great doorbells!

again, i haven't tried sound as a deterrent, but have used it (air powered boat horns) in correcting bad behaviors (e.g. digging - sound sometimes coupled with scent oriented deterrents such as lemon juice/diluted-vinegar filled balloons). i wouldn't count on sound with a highly aggressive dog. it may startle some dogs (my favorite Akita, which i was training for Shutzhund competition, didn't flinch at a .357 Magnum revolver discharged six feet away from him - yet, he would respond to whisper commands at least 60' away with me out of sight hiding behind something), but other dogs, especially if riled probably won't be deterred. not sure how hi-freq hi-amplitude sound would work. again, probably not as well as pepper-spray if the dog is highly riled and on an attack run. it's just how their brain is wired for olfactory.

electricity (tasers/stun-guns) might be lethal to canines as the electrolyte content of an animals blood and fluids is higher than humans - so, this should work well (ranged tasers obviously a better choice than contact-stun weapons which would probably need electrodes long enough to penetrate fur and contact skin). however, i haven't personally deterred aggressive dogs in this fashion, though i have used purpose made remotely activated electric collars for training on problem dogs (off-lead runners, primarily) - hence, my comments on electrode length as different lengths are employed in training depending upon the length and thickness of the dog's coat.


my two shekels.


----------------
i've owned or currently own Akitas, Rottweilers, Boxers, Pugs, Cairn Terriers, and a Maltese (go ahead...laugh - he has a lion's heart and has taken on other larger dogs, including a stranger's Boxer [i said he had heart, not brains] and some Golden Retreivers [i know, typically not the most agressive, but still over 10x the weight of the Maltese]). sometimes it's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog - typically Terriers are notable in this regard. the Maltese survived the Boxer encounter, probably only b/c the Boxer was only a year old - and just out of "puppyhood" (only a few months of testosterone). had the Boxer been 18mos or 2yr old, unless he considered the tiny Maltese a sort of pup which would get away with a more "gentle" correction (a nip perhaps) for bad behavior, it would have been "Game over, Man" as Bill Paxton voices in "Alien 2" for our Maltese. my wife has since learned to keep the lil' fella' away from other dogs - particularly other male dogs.



----------------
EDIT:

as far as shooting a dog, it obviously works. i've seen a LEO training video where a knife wielding man 21' from a LEO is able to charge the LEO before he can unholster his weapon, take aim, and shoot (which is why the LEO should have had his weapon drawn as he challenged the man wielding the knife - the POINT (no pun intended) of this segment of the training video; the LEO both remained stationary in one attack and tried back away in various fashions in other "attacks" - same result each time - LEO got "cut" bad). dogs can charge much faster than a human (figure a dog 25mph to 35mph [30mph = 44fps]; some faster - in two or three strides some dogs can be up to those speeds). just keep this in mind. don't underestimate the speed and quickness of a dog. [on a similar note, years ago, i saw a hunting show on TV; the "game" - a rogue African Lion (up to 50mph charge) maybe 100' away (and wounded) charging a hunter who couldn't get a single aimed shot off - though he managed one panicked wild shot (the lion was traveling ~70fps at just under 50mph), but off camera rifles ALREADY AIMED in the lion's direction took the lion down.]

 

[TorchBoy]

You know, half-watt, all I can say is ... wow.

 

[LITEFRK]

classic case of "everyone is an expert" on the internet.

 

[pilou]

What do you say to this statament?

That it was made two years ago.