Let's design a road front light beam

Eamon

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I meant the E6 lens and reflector unit that PJW sells. I have 2 of them (and just offered one to Eamon since we live in the same city) since my E6 headlight broke.

I'm just stealing ideas from this webpage:
http://www.enhydralutris.de/Fahrrad/LEDWerfer0402/index.html

I'm also behind in projects and decided that I should probably just build one headlight that works before playing too much with optics, so I'm concentrating on that right now. I'm using the L2 OPTX-3-008 triple CREE optic with 2 LEDs. One will stay on for a standlight. It is just a normal spot optic, but it isn't bad for a first headlight. The round 50mm lens is easy to build a housing around.

alex

Those folks are way ahead of me, although we're thinking along the same lines. I do wonder if they had to buy complete lights from INO (I think), or if they were able to source the reflectors from BUMM.

I'm going to build an MC-E/Fraen FRC light as a replacement for the Q5(3) I've been running all year. Just a version of Martin's circuit #10. Gods willing, I'll be getting to do that this weekend, and have it done with. The Q5(3) just isn't enough for wet/dark/long sorts of rides.

One thing that I will be able to do is see what sort of patterns I can get out of the MR11 FRC by powering different dies in the MC-E. In terms of the volume of that reflector, moving the source .7-1.4mm is significant. As well, changing its effective shape by powering different combinations will make some difference. How much? Could be not much, could be lots. Don't know, will share.

Once I get that up and running, I can tinker with optical sections, focal locations, and other fun things.

Eamon
 

syc

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I'm going to build an MC-E/Fraen FRC light as a replacement for the Q5(3) I've been running all year. Just a version of Martin's circuit #10. Gods willing, I'll be getting to do that this weekend, and have it done with. The Q5(3) just isn't enough for wet/dark/long sorts of rides.

The MC-E seems to be giving the throw lovers fits because of the quad emitters. I was wondering what would happen if you pointed the MC-E photon sprinkler at the bottom half of an E6 reflector the same way they do for the IQ/Edelux lights? Perhaps it would result in lots of spill as well, giving a bright rectangle of light, along with a lots of spill?

Maybe you will have a chance to try it out?
 

Eamon

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The MC-E seems to be giving the throw lovers fits because of the quad emitters. I was wondering what would happen if you pointed the MC-E photon sprinkler at the bottom half of an E6 reflector the same way they do for the IQ/Edelux lights? Perhaps it would result in lots of spill as well, giving a bright rectangle of light, along with a lots of spill?

Maybe you will have a chance to try it out?

As it happens, there are two MC-E's on their way to me (actually shipped). One of them is earmarked for experimentation and general tinkering.
I've got two general ideas in mind. First is "reconfiguring" the emitter inside an unmodified optic, to see how much and how that changes the beam shape. There are 11 possible combinations of dies contained in an MC-E, of which maybe 5 are likely to be useful. Those combination are in ~150lm increments, so low and high outputs follow logically. Could be nothing, could be useful. Only one way to find out. Headlight Hi/Lo beams involve a 1cm difference in filament locations. I don't know what will happen in an MR11 reflector, but I'm willing to bet something will.
Bandgap posted a link to an article by a designer at Carclo that talks about the size of light sources inside an optic, and how the MC-E is a very different cat than the XR-E. Point being that small changes could have large effects.

The second is taking sections of various optics, and feeding light into them indirectly. Cutting an E6 reflector in half, for instance.

At some point I'm going to get hold of a Busch&Muller with the IQ-Tec reflector, replace the emitter with an MC-E, and see what happens when I address different dies.

Beamshots will be shared.

Eamon
 

Eamon

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Cateye has what they call their Reverse Offset Lens technology which is pretty much the same as the Edelux reflector system but flipped over. Too bad their lights are $100 and $140. Here is a PDF with a cross-section of the ROL lens in the lower right-hand corner.

http://www.cateye.com/sites/cateye/upload/manuals/en/08POS(LD).pdf

It might even be the same lens. BUMM sells it to Scjmidt and INO that I know of, why not Cateye? I notice that the ROL and the IQ-Tec look very similar in axial cross-section. It's a math game.
As I said earlier, this isn't new technology. I notice that neither Cateye or BUMM is claiming patent protection on their optics. Building a dual-beam of this type is not experimental technology, only its application to bicycle lighting.

Eamon
 

mechBgon

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Before anyone gets too ecstatic about their cutoff design, I suggest going out on a dark roadway and viewing it from 50-100 meters away. I made what looked like a glorious cutoff (when aimed at a wall), but from a distance in darkness, it looked virtually identical whether it was right-side-up or upside-down. Back to the drawing board... :shakehead

From my own experimentation, what looks most promising would be a light with separately-aimed emitters for high beam and low/dipped beam, and for the low beam to have a wide beam pattern that helps the rider see peripheral reference points (such as the fog line and center line of the road, guardrails, etc) so he/she doesn't easily become disoriented in the face of oncoming lights.
 
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Steve K

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Before anyone gets too ecstatic about their cutoff design, I suggest going out on a dark roadway and viewing it from 50-100 meters away. I made what looked like a glorious cutoff (when aimed at a wall), but from a distance in darkness, it looked virtually identical whether it was right-side-up or upside-down. Back to the drawing board... :shakehead

From my own experimentation, what looks most promising would be a light with separately-aimed emitters for high beam and low/dipped beam, and for the low beam to have a wide beam pattern that helps the rider see peripheral reference points (such as the fog line and center line of the road, guardrails, etc) so he/she doesn't easily become disoriented in the face of oncoming lights.


very good observations. It's important to remember that the "near field" behavior is different from the "far field" behavior. At least, those are the terms used when discussing RF antennas. Not sure if optics guys have other terms. This was something I became familiar with years ago when working on a IR laser project which had some complex optics.

I wouldn't mind using separate optics for high and low beams, but I'm already using "smooth spot" Ledil optics on my XR-E's, and they are still too wide. I'd prefer a beam about half of this width, but there's nothing available.

For this reason, I'm drawn to using a BiSy reflector/optics to get a tighter beam, but it may end up being much too tight. I'm hoping that it's easier to make a beam diverge than converge! It'll be interesting to see what can be done to widen the beam by moving the LED away from the focal point.

Steve K.
 

Alex Wetmore

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I spent some time last night browsing around for mirrors that could be used. I didn't find a perfect choice, but these guys have a lot of potential options:
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/category/mirrors_1.html

My guess is that a ~70mm mirror with a ~15mm focal length would work well if the top or bottom 30% or so of the mirror were cut off. That seems like it would approximate the InoLED setup.

They have a bunch of ~35mm mirrors that might work, such as this one:
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l3705.html

An aluminum mirror should cut easly in a bandsaw or with a hacksaw. The prices are reasonable for experimentation.

alex
 

syc

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For this reason, I'm drawn to using a BiSy reflector/optics to get a tighter beam, but it may end up being much too tight. I'm hoping that it's easier to make a beam diverge than converge! It'll be interesting to see what can be done to widen the beam by moving the LED away from the focal point.

I was wondering how important the lens on the E6 reflector housing is to the beam? If it is is really important, then it would serve as a limit to how far back you can pull the emitter.

The other thing is that the quad dies on the MC-E results in a light emitting surface that is at least twice as large in each dimension as a single die, which might have the equivalent effect of at least doubling the distance between a single die LED and the reflector.

I've seen some aspheric lens mods around, and DX has a couple of largish aspherics. Maybe an aspheric and a conventional lens combination? By defocusing the aspheric, you may get to the narrow angle you want, while having a more conventional lens for nearby lighting.
 

mechBgon

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Another factor to keep in mind, is that if you get the beam highly focused, and it's steering with the handlebar, then even a little bar movement can send the beam in useless directions. This is the reason I mount my Dereelight DBS V2 directly to the frame itself to serve as a high beam; it's about half as sensitive to steering input that way.

Frame-mounting the light is a double-edged sword, however, since the beam is so narrow, and has such reach, that it's aimed off the roadway on turns. For this reason, I think the optimal high-beam design would be a wide oval or rectangle. If someone were to put three MC-Es or P7s behind the lens used on my Nova BULL LED strobe, they would have the job about 90% done, I think... the BULL's emission pattern is a broad horizontal bar.

bull.jpg


No need for a cutoff, just turn it off when there's oncoming traffic.
 

Bandgap

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I'm already using "smooth spot" Ledil optics on my XR-E's, and they are still too wide. I'd prefer a beam about half of this width, but there's nothing available.

Hi Steve
Is that the ROCKET smooth spot ROCKET-SS (n. 10324) ±4°
or the CR SQUARE SMOOTH SPOT* CRS-SS ±7°

I found a +/-3deg good for fast riding on open roads.

So, are you thinking +/-2deg, or +/-3.5, or another, and for what riding?

I am dertermind to get some figures written down!

The other Steve
 
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Steve K

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Hi Steve
Is that the ROCKET smooth spot ROCKET-SS (n. 10324) ±4°
or the CR SQUARE SMOOTH SPOT* CRS-SS ±7°

I found a +/-3deg good for fast riding on open roads.

So, are you thinking +/-2deg, or +/-3.5, or another, and for what riding?

I am dertermind to get some figures written down!

The other Steve

hi Steve,

good catch! I'm using the square smooth spot, CRS-SS. I hadn't thought about the other models (i.e. non-square).

Looking at Ledil's datasheet for the Rocket family of optics, the beam width looks great!

http://www.ledil.fi/datasheets/DataSheet_ROCKET.pdf

The diameter should work out fine, since it's not any bigger than the square lenses that I'm using now. The only thing that concerns me is the mounting technique. I'm using XR-E stars, and that isn't as simple when it comes to mounting the Ledil optics. In this picture, you can see how I've had to carve up the base of the square optics holder in order to provide clearance for the star's mounting screw and the wires:

2w36e4w.jpg


Any idea if the Rocket could be mounted on my stars??

thanks for the idea!

Steve K. (the other other Steve?)
 

Alex Wetmore

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I think they can be mounted on your stars. They won't mount on my 4-contact stars without modifying the optic. There are two cutaways for the contacts that will line up well with the contacts that you are using.

The glue isn't real strong and I think you'd need something more substaintial to hold them in place.

I bought those from LEDSupply. They also have the 3-way OPTX-3-008 which is only slightly wider and gives you 3 optics in a 50mm diameter circle. That isn't listed on their webpage, but you can email them with specifics on how to order them.

alex
 

Eamon

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I'll throw out an open question. In fact, I'll throw out two:

Size and weight.
Handlebar real estate is a limited commodity, and they're not making more of it. Include a computer, a cue sheet holder and a bell, and the bars get crowded real fast. More so if they're 31.8mm. Several of the more common handlebar expanders won't take much weight. If you run a bar-mount, then it's critical. How large a light head are people comfortable with? Single-unit or separate electronics package? How heavy?

The BUMM indirect reflectors are 50mm at the front. INO's, Cateye's, and E6's (IIRC) are larger. They are the most controlled beams that I'm aware of. Any secondary (high-beam) emitters have to be parallel to that without being co-axial with it. That's a package with a 50x70 frontal area, minimum. Even with all the electronics in a separate package, that's getting big.

This connects to the "how much" question. If you want a total of 600+ Lm (raises hand), then you need to think about the combination of emitters that will give you what you want. Which relates directly to total volume and shape. Even if the 10mm optics for the XP-E turn out to be suitable, that's getting into a sizeable package.
If you're running three separate emitters side by side: two spot and one flood/elliptical, for instance, that's getting towards a 38mm diameter.

So what sort of dimensions are people comfortable with? For my own part, 40X100mm is about as large as I care to put on the bars. Anything larger interferes with cables and my knees. Anything smaller, and I can't fit Martin #10 into it. I asked my girlfriend, and she wants nothing larger than an L&M ARC head over the bar, or ~40X90mm underneath it. Weight is secondary, but it doesn't take much to overload the FSA or Minoura bar expanders.

I've read that piece by Peter White before. For a low-beam, he's got the right idea, and that's what he sells. For low to medium speeds, or trafficked roads, he's right. For higher speeds and more remote roads, I think he's flatly wrong. He has convinced a lot of people in the US that StVZO standards are appropriate for all circumstances. The patterns he's talking about are the "long narrow rectangle" that the BUMM and INO reflectors and the E6 throw. Great low-beam, no high-beam.

I don't buy the driver-irritation argument. Didn't then. Don't now. I'm perfectly willing to dip my light as a courteous road-user. I am completely unwilling to limit my available lighting because I might offend a driver.

As I've said, I know a lot of people using StVZO-compliant lights as sole-source lighting. For faster riding, or twisty roads, or both, the long narrow rectangle just isn't enough. If I'm descending at night, I want a high-output narrow spot, and I want it on the bars. At pass speeds, I need to be able to pick out the fog lines as far ahead as possible, and the tightly controlled beams won't do it. If I've got both, so much the better. If I'm on a pitch-black road in the *** end of nowhere in the middle of the night, I still want a long narrow throw. The better to pick up road signs in the distance, and critters on the verge.

Eamon
 

Alex Wetmore

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Size and weight.

I think that is a good question. It is something that I've been dealing with in my own headlight. For homebuilt headlights it is easiest to do a nearly common diameter cylinder, and those get heavy when they are 50-60mm...even with a thin wall aluminum tube.

Eamon said:
Handlebar real estate is a limited commodity

I don't see any reason to mount the headlight anywhere near the handlebars. Lower down throws longer shadows which means it easier to see potholes, bumps, rocks, glass, and the types of things that I'm trying to avoid.

I like to mount the light under my front rack. When I didn't always have a front rack I'd mount it next to the fork blade or over the fork crown.

alex
 

PCC

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Sitting' on the dock o' The Bay...
Hows about something with a beam like this

NEWMR16PROJECT052.jpg


This is just a test rig I am working on experimenting with different sizes of acrylic bar
I just bought a 12" section of half-round acrylic bar of about 3/4" (300mm X 19mm) and tried this. It makes an interesting football shaped spot. What was really interesting with this is that if you are not in the hot spot it doesn't present any real glare in your eyes. Once inside the hot spot, it is bright! This would work well with enough lumens behind it. Add a second light source with a tight beam pattern for some long distance reach and you may have a decent light to ride with.
 

sfCyclotourist

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This is an interesting discussion. In my mind the optics are the biggest limitation of homebuilt headlights.

The IQ Fly/eDelux beam is shaped like a trapezoid. The wide part is at the top and the narrow part is at the bottom. The optics send more light to the top too.

When projected on the ground this looks like a long difuse rectangle with fairly even lighting. The amount of light going up towards drivers is enough for them to see you, but not enough to dazzle them.

B&M's optics appear to mount the LED at the top of the optic and use a reflector. I played with duplicating this (just using a Maglite 4D reflector), but it is hard to do with a star mounted LED because the star creates shadows on the final beam.

I bet the right beam could be done with colminating optics. There just isn't the market for DIY bicycle specific lighting.

The best results that I found were from decentering the LED inside a L2 OPTX-3-008 triple optic. I need to experiment more with this option. The decentered LED (LED shifted up I think) seemed to produce a beam which was brighter and more tightly defined at the top, and with more scattered and dimmer light at the bottom.

alex


Examples of what Alex is talking about:

Schmidt Edelux
Schmidt-Edelux-web.jpg


Schmidt E6
schmidt-e6-web.jpg


(images borrowed from http://peterwhitecycles.com/headlights.asp)
 
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