m60w on single 17670

[Niconical]

To answer (1):
There would about an hour of regulated output, then about 2 hours of declining output, even before the protection circuit was tripped.

To answer (2):
They are described as 3.7v but are charged to 4.2v. The battery will be fully charged at 4.2v and empty at (I think, get an expert to confirm) 3.6v resting.

I use a 17670 in an ITP C10, and because I have it set quite low, I use it for what seems like ages, check the voltage, and I'm only down to something like 4.02v, and that's from starting at 4.1v because I don't fully charge them.

I have a couple of questions regarding: gsnorm runtime test of an M60 with a protected AW 17670 cell that ran for about 1 hour (cell above 3.8 volts) of regulated output folllowed by 2 hours of slowly declining output.

(1) I was under the assumption that in a protected cell, the light would just shut off without notice when the protection circuit kicked in.

(2) I thought the 17670 protected cell was rated at 3.7 volts. If the cell in the test was charged above 3.8 volts in order to operate the M60 in its regulated state, would that damage the cell or can potentially damage the cell if usually charged above the rated voltage of 3.7?

Please note that I'm very new to rechargeables and flashlights in general so gsnorm please don't take my questions (lack of understanding) personally.

Thank you.

 

[Mikellen]

Thank you Yoda4561 and Niconical for your explanations. They really helped me alot, along with the other well informed posts. As a result of your information, I feel a great set up for me would be to use a Surefire 6P with a Malkoff M60W LED module and a protected 17670 battery. This would provide a regulated output for about an hour which would be fine. It also would provide the option to use 2 CR123A batteries for about a 1.5 hour regulated runtime (according to Malkoff Devices website).
Can anyone please confirm or deny the accuracy of my conclusion about this set up?

Thanks.

 

[Yoda4561]

Yep, sounds good I'll be going the M30 route myself as it gives the option of running a single CR123A + spacer. I have a large number of older chinese made cr123's that I don't want to risk running in a 2 cell configuration.

 

[roymail]

Yep, sounds good I'll be going the M30 route myself as it gives the option of running a single CR123A + spacer.

That's what I would do, but I'm more into AA lights and LSD NiMh cells. Why use 2 primary CR123's when you can use one. Get the spacer/dummy from AW for $5. :thumbsup:

 

[Niconical]

. I feel a great set up for me would be to use a Surefire 6P with a Malkoff M60W LED module and a protected 17670 battery. This would provide a regulated output for about an hour which would be fine. It also would provide the option to use 2 CR123A batteries for about a 1.5 hour regulated runtime (according to Malkoff Devices website).
Can anyone please confirm or deny the accuracy of my conclusion about this set up?

Thanks.

Consider the conclusion confirmed

A 6P, a 17670 battery (or 2) from AW, and a few primary batteries, maybe even in one of these battery holders from AW, and you'll have what is probably the most respected and reliable light/dropin/battery combo available. It will serve you well for many years.

Also, don't forget that you can always use the 17670 for 20 mins or whatever and recharge.
You don't have to run out the full time before charging, in fact it's better not to.

 

[Mikellen]

I've been looking at the Malkoff Devices website. The M60W runs on 2 CR123A batteries for about 1.5 hours of regulated runtime. The M30W runs on 1 CR123A battery for 1.25 hours of runtime. (Anyone know if this is regulated or not?) The lumen levels seem comparable.
If the runtimes and lumen levels are similar between the M30W with 1 cell and the M60W with 2 cells, is there any major advantage to the M60W and 2 cells?

Does it seem that using a M30W with 1 cell would be more efficient than the M60W with 2 cells considering that when the 1 cell is depleted with the M30W you can just replace it with another cell and get more runtime as compared with just the M60W with 2 cells?

Am I misinterpretating the data? {Note: I would be utilizing a Surefire 6P with either the M60W or M30W (plus spacer cell)}

Also If I used a 17670 protected battery, which module would perform better, the M60W or M30W?

Thank you for any responses.

 

[Kestrel]

I've been looking at the Malkoff Devices website. The M60W runs on 2 CR123A batteries for about 1.5 hours of regulated runtime. The M30W runs on 1 CR123A battery for 1.25 hours of runtime. (Anyone know if this is regulated or not?) The lumen levels seem comparable.
If the runtimes and lumen levels are similar between the M30W with 1 cell and the M60W with 2 cells, is there any major advantage to the M60W and 2 cells?

Does it seem that using a M30W with 1 cell would be more efficient than the M60W with 2 cells considering that when the 1 cell is depleted with the M30W you can just replace it with another cell and get more runtime as compared with just the M60W with 2 cells?

Am I misinterpretating the data? {Note: I would be utilizing a Surefire 6P with either the M60W or M30W (plus spacer cell)}

Also If I used a 17670 protected battery, which module would perform better, the M60W or M30W?

Thank you for any responses.

The M30 series is optimized for 3.7v rechargeable cells, where you will get the 230-240 lumens. With a 3.0v primary, you will get only ~150 lumens, that's the issue with the data you mention. (These lumens figures are for non-W variants, but your W's should still be proportional).

Best is to use the 17670 IMO. Sorry if I am repeating some of the above postings, but to compare:
M60W for ~ 1 hr regulated, ~2 hours declining output.
M30W for 1.5 hrs regulated, then (protection circuit)
There's been a lot of good debate regarding these two configurations on CPF lately.:tinfoil:

 

[Bullzeyebill]

Mikellen, re-read this thread and you will see information that will allow you to figure it out for yourself. Also, there are many threads about the M60 and M30 and what works and what doesn't.

Bill

 

[DM51]

Moving this to LED Flashlights...

 

[Mudd Magnet]

Thanks for the move

Thanks for all the help guy's I am going to go with the m60w running on a 17670 in my g2l. Seem's like the best option for me right now. I'll get good guilt free performance and can still backup with a pair of primary cells. Just waiting for Gene to get more in stock

This surefire thing is already burning a hole in my wallet and I am still at the bottom of the ladder :laughing: Next up for me is probably the e2d led defender or a fm 3p body using my g2l bezel/tail/m30 then get a 6p defender bezel and clickie tail for my g2 body, or mayby a a2 aviator or e1b decisions decisions I still haven't even got into researching turbo heads but I see a l6 porcupine in my collection soon

 

[Mudd Magnet]

Just got back from a walk in the woods behind my house. I took long my g2l and my 3d magled. All I have to say right now is I can't wait for gene to get more m60w's in stock I can't wait to see this torch with it installed. I can't believe how much my mag sucks compared to this torch I wish I would have bought one 2 years ago when I had it in my hand, The batteries price scared me off though :mecry: I ran the 3d mag with the led and with the incan lamp for comparison. The incan lamp blows the magled lamp is a fair bit better lighting up most of the path and a fair way's down it. The g2l completly overpowers the magled. It thows further has a bigger hotspot and has enough spill to light up everything in front of you I am very impressed and can't wait to get it together so I can plan on my next surefire see what you guy's have started :devil:

 

[Niconical]

If you're impressed by the P60L in the G2L, you're going to love the Malkoff

 

[Mudd Magnet]

I bought the g2l as a host with a p60 incan la. I knew I would be getting the malkoff and bought it because of the aluminum bezel I just can't wait been scanning the b,s,t for a used one even

If you're impressed by the P60L in the G2L, you're going to love the Malkoff

 

[Kestrel]

Thanks for all the help guy's I am going to go with the m60w running on a 17670 in my g2l. Seem's like the best option for me right now. I'll get good guilt free performance and can still backup with a pair of primary cells. Just waiting for Gene to get more in stock

This is going to be a good setup. We've seen runtime graphs for at least the M60 on 2x123's, but I'd LOVE to see a runtime graph (output vs. time) for these setups with the data superimposed to make comparison very easy. It would be great for future reference, as I have seen a lot of postings asking about this, and many of the replies (including mine) don't have much hard data behind them:

M60 w/ 2x123 primaries (benchmark)
M60 w/ 2xRCR
M60 w/ 1x17670 (I'm dying to see what the decline after regulation looks like here.)
M30 w/ 1x17670

 

[signal 13]

I really wish I had seen this post before I bought both the M30 and M60...

I didn't even know the M60 would run on a 17670 until a buddy of mine at work showed me his rig. Looks like I'll be unloading some M30s on CPFMP pretty soon to standardize my lights with the M60.

I really like the idea of being able to use li-ions as well as primaries in the same light, just in case. It's much more practical for use in the field.

 

[roymail]

M60 w/ 2x123 primaries (benchmark)
M60 w/ 2xRCR
M60 w/ 1x17670 (I'm dying to see what the decline after regulation looks like here.)
M30 w/ 1x17670

You may want to consider one more option.

M30 w/ 1x123 primary + 123 spacer. Besides, the M30 should be the optimum choice for 1x17670.

 

[Kestrel]

M60 w/ 2x123 primaries (benchmark)
M60 w/ 2xRCR
M60 w/ 1x17670 (I'm dying to see what the decline after regulation looks like here.)
M30 w/ 1x17670

You may want to consider one more option.

M30 w/ 1x123 primary + 123 spacer. Besides, the M30 should be the optimum choice for 1x17670.

The Malkoff website says a regulated 160 lumens for ~1 1/4 hours, and then a decline which would be interesting to evaluate. I am most curious about the situation Signal 13 mentions, how the M60 on a 17670 compares (slightly less initial output, minimal/no regulation, much more runtime, significant graceful decline during the second half of use as the cell is depleted) to the initial high-output, complete regulation, but abrupt shutoff at cell depletion / pcb termination from two small rcr123's (which contain significantly less overall energy than a single 17670). If I had a 6P, I'd run the M60 w/17670 to see just how long a useful runtime is available, but I use a C3 - different story completely.:tinfoil:

Edit: If anyone can post a runtime graph of M60 w/2xRCR123 (~1100 total amp-hours) vs M60 w/1x17670 (initially a little dimmer but ~1500 total amp-hours), I would love to see it. They would be totally different lights, and I for one would find the 1x17670 a more useful overall configuration with the extended runtime w/ somewhat graceful decline until cell shutoff.

 

[Owen]

I really wish I had seen this post before I bought both the M30 and M60...

I didn't even know the M60 would run on a 17670 until a buddy of mine at work showed me his rig. Looks like I'll be unloading some M30s on CPFMP pretty soon to standardize my lights with the M60.

I really like the idea of being able to use li-ions as well as primaries in the same light, just in case. It's much more practical for use in the field.

I sold my M30F so I could standardize on R123s and primaries, plus run 2x17500 or 2x17670 with extenders. The M30F was great, but I don't see the versatility that some people tout so strongly there. The M60 is where all the full-output options are.
If I had to get it down to one light for everything, I wouldn't think twice about keeping my 6P+Z59+M60W+FM34 plus the option of A19s and larger capacity cells. Never had a more useful light.

 

[Bullzeyebill]

Purchase AW's soft start three level tailcap module. You don't need the soft start, but the three levels will be nice. The AW switch module is optimized to run at 6 volts, or more, and would be perfect running with two Li Ion's. An M60 with three levels would be really nice.

Bill

 

[Owen]

Ah, great(?) minds think alike!
I posted a thread in the mods forum asking about that very thing. It apparently doesn't have momentary on, so I ordered a McC2S for the C2L-HA with a M60WF that is my new EDC.
I really like the idea of a 30%-60%-100% like the soft-start switch offers, and am still considering it for the 6P. Not sure I understand how it works on start-up, though.