Mag Quad LED build possible with standard battery setup?

[wildstar87]

I notice that all the builds I see are using AA to D adapters. Is it possible with a boost circuit to use just the standard D setup of say a 3D/4D Mag, in a Quad LED setup, or is it just asking too much?

 

[SafetyBob]

I did the numbers with 4 D alkalines, 4 D rechargable NiMHs and you would be pulling way to much power for the driver board I would use. I did my calculations based on the MaxFlex or Fatman (check out www.taskled.com site...good foolproof instructions there). If you can see your way to using the 9xAA or 12xAA battery holders in your 3D or 4D flashlight you can have a nice light and use a boost regulator with your 4 cree setup. This is what my current project is using.

Use the 9xAA holder in the 3D for a nice sized flashlight and the 12xAA holder in the 4D for a really bright flashlight with really good runtime. This is assuming you will be using AA NiMH batteries. I recommend Eneloops, others have good recommendations too.

Yes there is alot of money to be blown on batteries, holders, and chargers but I promise you will end up with a really nice flashlight when you are done.

Bob E.

 

[wildstar87]

Thanks Bob for the reply.. Is it only the 4AA adapters that need the boring to be done to the body? I'm assuming you could do the standard 3AA to D without needing to mod the body? I also assume that this would allow for Alkalines to be used in a pinch?

 

[SafetyBob]

That is correct. The 6xAA, 9xAA, and 12xAA adapters require no boring. Put some batteries in and you are in business. I don't think I have said it but Fivemega's battery holders are the "premium" route. There are others, they are good to very good, but FM's are stunning to use in person. Amazing machining and quality control. If they are not available, it will be worth the wait.

Let me address batteries. First, find some posts by Silverfox. He is one of the authorities on batteries. From what I have been led to believe is that regular alkaline batteries just don't have the punch (as in mA power) that the rechargables do. I know that alkalines do fine for a single led mod but the multiples can really put a strain on any battery. Even though the Eneloops are rated at 2000mA, they will probobly work better overall longer because they are just better, newer technology and seem to deliver all that power. From what I have read the 2500mA and 2700mA AA's may work good for awhile, but they are fragile. That said, within the next year there will be something else that will move the Eneloops out of the top seat and be better for all of us.

Bob E.

 

[LEDninja]

Elektrolumens did it with a 3D Mag and no boost circuit. Do not know if he used dropping resistors.
http://www.illuminationforums.com/IlluminationForums/showthread.php?t=211

 

[Drewfus2101]

The problem seems to be that you can only pull so much current from alkaline batteries. Many drop-ins and modders will pull 1 amp or just over that. I've been told that alkalines can not take 2 amps. When Malkoff tested his new 4 emitter drop-in, he used NiMH rechargeables that could take the 3.5 amp pull.

I'm not sure how Elektrolumens or Terralux did their multi-emitter drop-ins. I would imagine that they figured out what kind of current they could pull from alkalines, and still get reasonable run time, and they built the light based on that. That could be one reason both of them are 3 emitter lights, that I *believe* only run around 600ma to each emitter (1.8amp total). So that would allow the use of alkalines.

Using the AA->D adapters lets you use NiMH AAs which can discharge much more and are rechargeable. Most people (not me) prefer that route.

 

[LEDninja]

I'm not sure how Elektrolumens or Terralux did their multi-emitter drop-ins. I would imagine that they figured out what kind of current they could pull from alkalines, and still get reasonable run time, and they built the light based on that. That could be one reason both of them are 3 emitter lights, that I *believe* only run around 600ma to each emitter (1.8amp total). So that would allow the use of alkalines.

Elektrolumens recommends using high capacity NiMH. 10,000 to 12,000 mAH are available at the various battery websites.

 

[wildstar87]

Yeah, I'm thinking of going the Elektrolumens route, especially since he is making a 4 LED version now. It almost seems that for the cost of this drop-in, it isn't much cheaper (if at all) to make your own unit. Cost of leds, reflectors, heatsink, driver, batt adapters, etc..

Though his unit isn't using a driver, it's either DD, or I'm guessing a resistor drop, but doesn't seem like there is an easy way of doing this for the DIY guy, or maybe I'm just missing something.

You do miss the fun of the building, which is interesting, but after hassling with solder Cree's, and having issues with drivers, I'm not so enamored of building a Quad myself. I know it would require a lot of time and effort on my part to get it where I wanted it.

I am curious though, what is the runtime on a Quad Cree/SSC with 9AAA? :thinking:

 

[ace0001a]

When it comes to building your own quad emitter Mag, it's not necessarily the cost that should be the major factor here. As far as using "regular" batteries are concerned, I personally still consider using AAs in a batteries in that classification. Sure you have to use adapters, but the last time I checked, AAs are a "regular" battery.

I have built a few Tri-emitter 2D Mags using a pair of 3AA-to-1D adapters in them and they have worked fine. I agree that the Fivemega premium adapters are without a doubt the best out there, if budgeting is a factor than you might not want to spend the premium price for them. I just built a Tri-Luxeon K2 TFFC using a Modamag PTS2-D heatsink, 3 IMS20 reflectors and Shark converter (set at max) and a pair of Kaidomain 3AA-to-1D adapters. I think the total parts cost there was about $85 and I would think a quad emitter setup with similar parts that I used would be around $100.

Sure when you think about that, it's not that much cheaper than the $125 or so it'll cost you for the Elektrolumens MT-IV. But here are couple things to consider with going that route: 1. Because he is using a "cup" heatsink design, he can only fit 17mm reflectors in there...with the SSCP4 emitters he uses, 17mm reflector put out a really floody, short throwing beam (in my opinion). If you were to build your own quad emitter setup using SSCP4s (or K2 TFFC LEDS) and a Modamag heatsink, you could use 20mm reflectors which would give you a little more throw. 2. The MT-IV is direct drive. While some would argue that they think direct drive is better than having a regulator circuit, I for one am with the camp the believes in the contrary...just simply because I believe that regulation provides a flatter output curve as appose to the gradual drop that you'd get when running direct drive.

Don't get me wrong, I own an EL MT-III and I think it's an excellent product. Being a flashaholic, I feel compelled to buy and/or try as many different products out there. On the plus side, you will be able to use the actual battery configuration of the Mag using the EL MT drop-in, but if you want optimum performance, you'll have to invest in some D sized NiMH batteries.

If you do go the DIY route, there is alot of info and tutorials here at CPF on just how to accomplish that.

 

[mdocod]

check this out:
http://www.cutter.com.au/products.php?cat=27&pg=2

scroll down to the CCHIPO

it can handle up to 5 amp current on the inlet side to boost voltage up to 39V, and it's about 85% efficiant... so I think you could theoretically run it on 3xD NIMH cells ~3.6V in, pushing 4 LEDs in series at ~1A each you would need almost the full 5 amps to do it, which should be fine, runtime would be 2 hours on 3 NIMH D cells ~10AH each. If you step up to a 4D mag it would run a a little better with lower inlet current, probably better efficiency, longer runtime, and less heat.

 

[LukeA]

check this out:
http://www.cutter.com.au/products.php?cat=27&pg=2

scroll down to the CCHIPO

it can handle up to 5 amp current on the inlet side to boost voltage up to 39V, and it's about 85% efficiant... so I think you could theoretically run it on 3xD NIMH cells ~3.6V in, pushing 4 LEDs in series at ~1A each you would need almost the full 5 amps to do it, which should be fine, runtime would be 2 hours on 3 NIMH D cells ~10AH each. If you step up to a 4D mag it would run a a little better with lower inlet current, probably better efficiency, longer runtime, and less heat.

Keep in mind that the NiMH cells will pretty much always be running above their nominal voltage. But if 4Ds can be swung, higher efficiency will be attained.

 

[wildstar87]

Hmm... Possibilities there.. It seems like the MaxFlex driver would work as well, or am I not reading that right? I would have to finally get some Ni-MH Ds but looks doable... mdocod, that battery carrier you have listed in your thread has me interested.. You have the parts list and instructions ready yet?? Or for sale?

Oh and can someone tell me what the runtime off a Quad setup with 9AAA would be?

 

[mdocod]

I should be ordering inventory to start production beginning of next week. I'll take pictures of the different sizes in production and provide instructions after I have started production. crossing my fingers that I don't run into any financial blips in the next week to prevent me from getting started. Keep an eye out in BST.

 

[Essexman]

Is it possible with a boost circuit to use just the standard D setup of say a 3D/4D Mag, in a Quad LED setup, or is it just asking too much?

How about using three SHO Micropucks (500mA) to boost power three emitters with a 2D Mag? i.e. one driver per emitter. This would draw around 1.8 to 2.0Amps total.

OK this wouldn't be the brightest Tri set up going, but it could be run on 2 std D size alkalines.

Wayne has already proved it works. See thread here and review here.

 

[SafetyBob]

I have used MicroPucks for all sorts of 2 and 3 D single led mods....never thought about a tri or quad mod with Micropucks.....let's see, I know I can boost them, buck them, paralllel them...I think I will go back to the drawing board now although the different light levels when using one of George's boards is one I cannot ignore. Maybe I will try the quad with micropucks then go for the different light levels.

Great ideas!!

Bob E.

 

[Essexman]

I have used MicroPucks for all sorts of 2 and 3 D single led mods....never thought about a tri or quad mod with Micropucks.....let's see, I know I can boost them, buck them, paralllel them...I think I will go back to the drawing board now although the different light levels when using one of George's boards is one I cannot ignore. Maybe I will try the quad with micropucks then go for the different light levels.

Great ideas!!

That's the fun (and pain) of this type of modding. So many diffrent ways to make so many combinations and configerations. Then someone else comes up with another way of making what you have just started making!!

I know the Micropuck is an old design, and compared to more up to date drivers it looks very tame, but it has it's pros. Small, bombproof, easy to wire/solder. KISS "Keep It Simple Stupid" engineering I think it's called.

 

[wildstar87]

So I'm still trying to figure out what I'm going to do, but I did have a stupid, simple question.. If you run 4D Alkalines with a MaxFlex in the configuration we are talking about, and try to get 1A to the emitters, obviously it's driving the batteries pretty hard, and Alkalines won't last long at all from my understanding.

What happens when you drive the batteries this hard? Do they just not last as long, or will they explode, or leak or something? The latter obviously I would not want to happen. I'll probably end up going with 4D Ni-MH with this build anyway, but I'm just curious.

 

[bluecrow76]

According the MaxFlex technical section, "Input current should be around 3A or less for optimal performance of MaxFlex2". The problem is really with the driver. Driving it hard like that makes the efficiency lower and the driver ends up having to dissipate more heat than it's designed to. You have the potential of frying the circuit.

As for the batteries, make sure you get NiMH batteries that are rated for the rate of discharge you want to pull from them. Exceeding that will reduce the lifespan of the cells. I don't think you have to worry about NiMH exploding, that's more of a Lithium issue.

Good luck!

 

[wildstar87]

Hmm, now that I look at it, the Shark has a limit of 4A, so maybe that would be a better way to go. Or just use the CCHIPO as someone already suggested.. I do like the modes though.. Arggghh..... :shrug:

 

[Wok]

The CCHIPO would be a bit awkward to fit in a Mag.