That looks nice... The M61SHO looks like a very nice balance of output and runtime for a 2x li-ion setup or 3xCR123. I hope it won't be too long before a 80+ CRI neutral or warm SHOW comes out!
Malkoff MD2 with M61SHO Run Time Graphs
- Thread starter Robert_M
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That looks nice... The M61SHO looks like a very nice balance of output and runtime for a 2x li-ion setup or 3xCR123. I hope it won't be too long before a 80+ CRI neutral or warm SHOW comes out!
fresh eddie fresh
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I think the solution might be two different lights. One will be your tactical light that always has fresh primaries in it, and another to be a battery vampire for less essential tasks. If you are looking for maximum output every time you turn on your tac light, you will not be able to get it on nearly depleted batteries, and they might dim out or quit when you really need them to work.
PoliceScannerMan
Flashaholic
Threw that in my sigline, great line Gene!
PSM, there is a 'slight' chance from the way your sig is formatted that people reading too quickly may think Gene also said "I may not be that bright, buy my lights are!". Just an observation!
PoliceScannerMan
Flashaholic
That's in italics, the quote is in bold and in quotation marks.
If they mix that up, they are in the same class as me. Not bright.
Any who back on topic. I think the M61SHO is in my near future.
If they mix that up, they are in the same class as me. Not bright.
Any who back on topic. I think the M61SHO is in my near future.
I'm not very bright either... Ever seen how many posts I bothered Nailbender with until I could figure out what my requirements really were? And in the end, I had to cancel my order...
I like 3-cell lengthed lights. I find the single 18650 bodies too short and the SHOW seems like the best 2x li-ion, 3x CR123 setup out there without putting out too much heat. My M60s are currently used in a C3 with dummy cell and M60N in MD4 with 2x li-ions.
tobrien
Flashlight Enthusiast
I loved seeing gene's response! That's a good businessman
flashy bazook
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I just finished going over some rough runtime measurements I had done on several of my Malkoff drop-ins.
The M31LL gave 5 hours of runtime on 2xAA Eneloops (2000 mAh each).
Now, back to the main topic.
I had also been thinking, based on the specs for the M61SHO, that you might actually get similar runtimes when running it with 2xC123A (1500 mAh) and 2xRCR123A's (750 mAh). It turns out from Robert M's charts, this is actually true, when comparing regulated output. This is quite remarkable, actually.
One way to think about it, is that you can get 385 lumens (Malkoff estimate, Robert M gives a bit over 400) for more than half an hour using 2 small rechargeable LiIons. For comparison, we used to get only 20 minutes or so of runtime using old incan Surefires of roughly similar lumen output, which consumed several primaries in the process (maybe 6 primaries? if memory is correct using the M6 at 500 lumens as the benchmark).
Of course, you should roughly double the runtime using 2x18500's, and again double that if using 2x18650's.
Personally I think the best use of it might just be with the 2xRCR123A's, in a tactical use. For non-tactical uses, the M61SHO may not be the best drop-in.
One final thought, the 2xLiFePO4 format is definitely outmatched in this application by the 2xRCR123A's. It has no advantage and clearly lower runtimes.
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Well, let's just say my opinion is revised after using my M600C (E2DL) and watching it drop out of regulation. As soon as it did (I turned it on, regulated, turned it off after just a second, literally, and that's when it dropped out, never to go back in), I measured the cells. 2.83XX each.
I ordered an M61SHO and set the batteries aside to see if it will turn it on in regulation.
I ordered an M61SHO and set the batteries aside to see if it will turn it on in regulation.
flashy bazook
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OK, one more comparison, I am trying to see if this M61SHO has any advantage over the older M91. It is not clear that it does.
Let's say the 3xC123A is the best compromise to run the M61SHO among all primary battery configurations. It gives out about 400 lumens (385 "Malkoff" lumens, 415 measured in this thread), with a "Malkoff" runtime of 1:15 hours plus a long taper.
How about the M91? At the same configuration of 3xC123A, it is rated at 500 lumens, and a runtime of 1:30 hours. So better than the M61SHO on both counts. I don't know how long the taper of the M91 is, if any, but even if it is significantly shorter than that of the M61SHO, it is not really a big advantage.
So overall, M91 dominates M61SHO.
Am I missing anything here?
Let's say the 3xC123A is the best compromise to run the M61SHO among all primary battery configurations. It gives out about 400 lumens (385 "Malkoff" lumens, 415 measured in this thread), with a "Malkoff" runtime of 1:15 hours plus a long taper.
How about the M91? At the same configuration of 3xC123A, it is rated at 500 lumens, and a runtime of 1:30 hours. So better than the M61SHO on both counts. I don't know how long the taper of the M91 is, if any, but even if it is significantly shorter than that of the M61SHO, it is not really a big advantage.
So overall, M91 dominates M61SHO.
Am I missing anything here?
In the real world, the biggest difference I see between the M91 and the M61SHO is the beam pattern. If you want a hotspot and decent throw, go with the M61SHO. If you want an evenly lit area light for closer range use, go with the M91.
Grizz
Grizz
Rat6P
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That's the M91A that does the 750.
The original M91 was a 450.
All of these higher power LEDs like the XML and XPG2 are needing to be driven harder to get the best results from them. So, it only stands to reason that they are going to place a tougher task on the batteries, and the run times are going to be shorter. Unless you use a bigger battery bank, this is going to be the results.
SOcalsurferx
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Help Calculating Runtime with Malkoff M61 SHO
Howdy all -
I was having some trouble calculating a rough estimate of run time for a Malkoff M61 SHO in an extended and bored Surefire 9P with two 18650 3,000 mah Li-Ions.
From Malkoff's description:
The input voltage is 5.5- 12 volts. Below 5.5 volts it will drop out of regulation. Below 5 volts it will begin to flash and below 4.5 volts it will shut off. The output of the drop in is approximately 385 measured out the front lumens. Your output may vary according to lens/bezel configuration. The current draw is 1000ma at 6 volts. The full output runtime is approximately 45 minutes on two CR123 primary batteries with a long taper as voltage drops. On three cells the current draw is 600ma and full output run time is approximately 2.25 hrs with a long taper. On four cells the current draw is 450ma and full output run time is approximately 3 hours with a long taper.
You guys think that my 2x18650 host would be a good match for this drop-in, or is it better suited to 3-4x primary battery hosts?
thanks in advance!
Howdy all -
I was having some trouble calculating a rough estimate of run time for a Malkoff M61 SHO in an extended and bored Surefire 9P with two 18650 3,000 mah Li-Ions.
From Malkoff's description:
The input voltage is 5.5- 12 volts. Below 5.5 volts it will drop out of regulation. Below 5 volts it will begin to flash and below 4.5 volts it will shut off. The output of the drop in is approximately 385 measured out the front lumens. Your output may vary according to lens/bezel configuration. The current draw is 1000ma at 6 volts. The full output runtime is approximately 45 minutes on two CR123 primary batteries with a long taper as voltage drops. On three cells the current draw is 600ma and full output run time is approximately 2.25 hrs with a long taper. On four cells the current draw is 450ma and full output run time is approximately 3 hours with a long taper.
You guys think that my 2x18650 host would be a good match for this drop-in, or is it better suited to 3-4x primary battery hosts?
thanks in advance!
Re: Help Calculating Runtime with Malkoff M61 SHO
You can use the 3-cell(9v) current draw for a ballpark run time figure, because the 2 x 18650 give 8.4 volts.
Your batteries are 3000 mah, and the light draws 600ma, so 3000/600=5 hours.
You can't say it will be exactly that, but it will be in that area. Probably a little bit less, like around 4.5 hours might be closer. You'd have to time your specific light with your specific batteries to be exact.
Regarding your final question, I think you have the right set-up for this if you want the longest run time.
You can use the 3-cell(9v) current draw for a ballpark run time figure, because the 2 x 18650 give 8.4 volts.
Your batteries are 3000 mah, and the light draws 600ma, so 3000/600=5 hours.
You can't say it will be exactly that, but it will be in that area. Probably a little bit less, like around 4.5 hours might be closer. You'd have to time your specific light with your specific batteries to be exact.
Regarding your final question, I think you have the right set-up for this if you want the longest run time.
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SOcalsurferx
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Re: Help Calculating Runtime with Malkoff M61 SHO
Thank you!
Thank you!
I'm not the flashaholic that some of you are, and some of this stuff is over my head. I venture back here to CPF about once a year to make sure I'm still up on technology.
I have a Malkoff MD2 (hi-lo only). A year or two ago I emailed Gene and asked if there was a newer head which would give me a higher output and it sounded like I still had the "brightest M61" at the time. Here we are around a year later and it sounds like you guys are talking about that very thing. I use 2 energizer CR123 primaries (free from work). I won't ditch my MD2 because I think the size, shape, lack of sharp bezel, etc are all perfect for my pocket EDC / combatives use / tactical use / camping / nightlight, etc. The thing is built like a tank and has taken a ton of abuse without so much as a flicker. I would buy a new head if I could get more light without sacrificing that much runtime. It sounds like we're still not there. I can get more brightness, but I'll lose on runtime. Thanks to all of you, looks like I'll peek back in a year!
I have a Malkoff MD2 (hi-lo only). A year or two ago I emailed Gene and asked if there was a newer head which would give me a higher output and it sounded like I still had the "brightest M61" at the time. Here we are around a year later and it sounds like you guys are talking about that very thing. I use 2 energizer CR123 primaries (free from work). I won't ditch my MD2 because I think the size, shape, lack of sharp bezel, etc are all perfect for my pocket EDC / combatives use / tactical use / camping / nightlight, etc. The thing is built like a tank and has taken a ton of abuse without so much as a flicker. I would buy a new head if I could get more light without sacrificing that much runtime. It sounds like we're still not there. I can get more brightness, but I'll lose on runtime. Thanks to all of you, looks like I'll peek back in a year!
Yoda4561
Flashlight Enthusiast
For runtime boosts you'll need to look towards battery technology. Even with a 100% efficient LED, which we'll probably never get to, we'll only see roughly double the runtime in the 200-300 lumen range, and 600 lumen lights will have similar runtimes to today's 2-300 lumen lights Because of the push to electric vehicles, laptops, portable phones, and power tools, lithium battery technology is getting better every year, and at least in theory has lots of room to grow.
