Manker LAD, a new 219c option, alternative to the Tip?

[Streamer]

Yes it does!

From LOW press and hold, it'll go out, keep holding until the light flashes once. Then it's in lockout. Press and hold until it turns on to get out of lockout.

And now the big question...does it also have lockout parasitic drain as bad as the Tip?

 

[jon_slider]

Here's the LAD and TIP being swung as fast as I can.
Anyway, I don't see any PWM in either of them.

Thanks for trying.

Here are two people who can detect it
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...t-use-NO-PWM&p=4992504&viewfull=1#post4992504

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...Nitecore-TIP&p=4993257&viewfull=1#post4993257

 

[KITROBASKIN]

Thanks for trying.

Here are two people who can detect it
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...t-use-NO-PWM&p=4992504&viewfull=1#post4992504

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...Nitecore-TIP&p=4993257&viewfull=1#post4993257

From one of the links referenced above:
"Bottom line is i doubt even the most sensitive eye can detect a PWM on the TIP"

'More of the same claims that suffer scrutiny'

And in the other link, the member states that bands of PWM are visible with his camera on high mode with the TIPs. Really? High mode does not use PWM in any light I am aware of. PWM is used to make lower modes by turning the emitter on and off rapidly, thus a less bright setting.

Curious that slider has claimed she/he is a photographer (and uses flashlights to take pictures) yet does not have any 'smoking gun' images of his own.

 

[bansuri]

TIP, LAD, and Tube, spinning around on a ball chain.
It seems like you really want some evidence of PWM Jon, I've been unable to find it. Maybe they bumped the frequency way up with V2?

They were all spinning fast, the Tube shot really shows off the effect!
I'd bet that an incan would hardly be noticeable with PWM as the element wouldn't cool off quick enough between pulses. LED looks to be OFF as soon as the pulse switches to zero.
I took some 60FPS video and thought I had something for a moment but it was from my monitor, went away when I turned it off.

That's all I can contribute to the PWM debate because the reactions going on in here make me feel like I'm missing something.... I guess I've been away too long.

If you can live with the little nitpicky things, any of these lights beats out the old CR2016 lights simply because they're rechargeable. And despite the visible flicker of the Tube, it's the one I put back on my neck after the test!
I'll shoehorn the other ones into my life, finding little places where I often need lights is easy in a 100 yr old house and when you work at a place that so broke we can't replace light bulbs.

 

[Streamer]

TIP, LAD, and Tube, spinning around on a ball chain.
It seems like you really want some evidence of PWM Jon, I've been unable to find it. Maybe they bumped the frequency way up with V2?

They were all spinning fast, the Tube shot really shows off the effect!
I'd bet that an incan would hardly be noticeable with PWM as the element wouldn't cool off quick enough between pulses. LED looks to be OFF as soon as the pulse switches to zero.
I took some 60FPS video and thought I had something for a moment but it was from my monitor, went away when I turned it off.

That's all I can contribute to the PWM debate because the reactions going on in here make me feel like I'm missing something.... I guess I've been away too long.

If you can live with the little nitpicky things, any of these lights beats out the old CR2016 lights simply because they're rechargeable. And despite the visible flicker of the Tube, it's the one I put back on my neck after the test!
I'll shoehorn the other ones into my life, finding little places where I often need lights is easy in a 100 yr old house and when you work at a place that so broke we can't replace light bulbs.

Does your Tube suffer from parasitic drain in lockout mode? Thanks in advance.

 

[StandardBattery]

I asked Battery Junction if their TIP CRI were the newer version of the firmware that doesn't have the issue of battery drainage when locked out and they said that

the TIP CRI Never Had the Battery Drainage During Lockout Like the Standard Version.
....

That is a load of crap.

 

[superedge88]

The grey version of the LAD is now available FINALLY!

 

[jon_slider]

TIP, LAD, and Tube, spinning around on a ball chain.
It seems like you really want some evidence of PWM Jon, I've been unable to find it.

I respect your efforts, thank you.
Since the mods have let stand Kitros accusation that I am dishonest, I offer more evidence, a photo I did not take

fwiw, enlarging a photo cannot show PWM that is not there, only the TIP in this photo shows scan lines

If someone does not care about PWM, that is their choice, but I dont think it is right to attack me personally, for showing photos with scan lines. Im not telling anyone what to think about PWM, Im just showing it exists in the TIP.

In any case, I think we can all agree that the LAD has NoPWM.

 

[hmihaylov]

You guys. Do you know OUR SUN uses PWM?

Just kidding.

Actually, it kind of does. Look it up. The light is a wave. Thus it has frequency. It is just very high. So if you have the right equipment, you can prove (specifically Jon), that the Sun uses PWM!

 

[ronniepudding]

I am sensitive to Pulse Width Modulation, and bad/slow PWM is so annoying (to my eyes and brain) that it is a deal-breaker in otherwise fine lights. The Nitecore Tube is a relevant example of an otherwise fine light that is pretty much unusable to me on its lower mode(s)...

Given the discussion re: PWM and the Nitecore TIP, I put some effort into trying to capture any evidence of PWM, pulse, or flicker in my TIP CRI v2 via my cellphone camera. I fully recognize that my photography skills are not the best, so please forgive their lack of refinement. Nevertheless, the pics I've attached here (of the TIP's lowest, moonlight mode ) mirror my experience with using the light in practice... namely, that there is no detectable pulsing:

[/URL]TIP CRI v2 by Richard Rhodes, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/URL]TIP CRI v2 by Richard Rhodes, on Flickr[/IMG]


This is not to say that all Nitecore TIPs are flicker free; I had a [non-CRI] TIPbriefly, but I sent it back to the vendor immediately, so I cannot measure or comment on pulsing in non-CRI versions, nor can I comment on pulsing in previous (v1) version samples, etc. I have read about some lights (from reputable sources, e.g. Selfbuilt's review of Fenix LD12 a few years back) that can exibit flickering caused by "circuit noise"... not caused by PWM per se. I've also experienced lights that pulse visibly when the battery gets low. So I guess my point is that any one user's experience with a limited sample set, while personally valid, is not comprehensive.

 

[jon_slider]

Im happy for you, that the Tip does not bother your PWM sensitivity, and thanks for posting your photos. I agree they do not capture any PWM.

for some reason, this photo does: (click pic to see original image and technique used)


Im surprised several people could not produce a similar image, but maybe there is a difference in technique. Anyway, if youre happy with your light, thats all that matters. Enjoy!

At least we all seem to agree the LAD does not use PWM. At least Nobody has been able to photograph any, yet. So I would say yes, the LAD could be an alternative to the TIP. And after all, this thread is about the LAD. I hope the TIP PWM argument in this thread, can end now. There is a thread all about the TIP where that has already been covered in detail.

 

[ronniepudding]

I'm happy for you, that the Tip does not bother your PWM sensitivity, and thanks for posting your photos. I agree they do not capture any PWM.

...

At least we all seem to agree the LAD does not use PWM. At least Nobody has been able to photograph any, yet. So I would say yes, the LAD could be an alternative to the TIP. And after all, this thread is about the LAD. I hope the TIP PWM argument in this thread, can end now. There is a thread all about the TIP where that has already been covered in detail.

Agreed, and thank you Jon for your contributions in this thread, and in the TIP thread.

I personally like the looks of the LAD, and see a couple of possible improvements over the TIP in 1) the recessed button, and 2) the integrated boot cover for the charging port. I am in any case very glad to see the proliferation the Nichia 219c in everyday production lights like this one, and the accompanying focus on tint and CRI. So cheers to Manker on all three points. Unfortunately, the LAD's red emitters and its UI are not for me; for those reasons, and since I am indeed very happy with my recent TIP purchase, I will likely not be buying a LAD in the near future.

 

[bltkmt]

Received my red 219c LAD this week and really like it so far (I love my two TIPs as well). The LAD seems a bit more solid in the hand and I like the body shape. The UI was confusing at first until I watched a review on YouTube that simplified it for me - now I really like it. The red LEDs work very well for moonlight mode. I wish they had a better beam profile but that is difficult with two separate LEDs I imagine. The smaller battery is concerning - wish it could be similar to the TIPs. I tend to top mine off every few days though.

 

[jon_slider]

After watching this video, and seeing that a single click starts the LAD on the first white light level (they call it low, its about 20 lumens), I went ahead and ordered a Red Lad with N219c from Ebay. I also liked seeing that the LAD form factor is slightly more compact than the Tip. The biggest reason I chose the LAD over the TIP for this application, is to avoid any need to add a lockout procedure to using the light, since it is a gift to a non flashaholic college student.


They live near a construction zone and have been getting a lot of flat tires, so I assembled a kit that includes a FlashLight, Airpump (Viair 85p), Tire plug kit, Air Pressure gauge, Gloves, Shop Towels, and a Leatherman.

Atm the flashlight in the kit is one of my prized Copper Tool w Nichia, loaded with Ultimate Lithium, plus a spare battery. I would like to reclaim the Tool when the LAD arrives, as I think the rechargeable feature of the LAD will be practical. I also like that the LAD includes a mini USB charge cord. (We are an iPhone family, and they do not use miniUSB)

 

[Tachead]

Im happy for you, that the Tip does not bother your PWM sensitivity, and thanks for posting your photos. I agree they do not capture any PWM.

for some reason, this photo does: (click pic to see original image and technique used)


Im surprised several people could not produce a similar image, but maybe there is a difference in technique. Anyway, if youre happy with your light, thats all that matters. Enjoy!

At least we all seem to agree the LAD does not use PWM. At least Nobody has been able to photograph any, yet. So I would say yes, the LAD could be an alternative to the TIP. And after all, this thread is about the LAD. I hope the TIP PWM argument in this thread, can end now. There is a thread all about the TIP where that has already been covered in detail.

Have you considered that it may be the camera causing the effect and not the light Jon? Your crusade against PWM using cheap cameras as "proof" gets quite tiring(especially when it's in close to every thread you participate in) and I know I am not the only one to feel this way. You should get an oscilloscope and/or a life man.

This is a neat little light. Glad to see more and more companies offering high CRI options.

 

[Dutchman]

Hello,

questions on the battery, is it a standard size and can you replace it yourself?

thx

Kees

 

[jon_slider]

[h=2]This message is hidden because Tachead is on your ignore list.[/h]

Im not interested in your opinions about my opinions Tachead.
afaict, You are a Hater with nothing positive to contribute.
If my posts bother you, ignore me, instead of tailgating me to police my posts.

 

[Tachead]

Im not interested in your opinions about my opinions Tachead.
afaict, You are a Hater with nothing positive to contribute.
If my posts bother you, ignore me, instead of tailgating me to police my posts.

I have plenty of positive to contribute Jon. Just not to your annoying lack of real proof, camera phone, anti PWM crusade in every thread(there is no tailgating it's just that they are in almost every thread you post in). Your constant PWM posts bother many Jon, please keep your anti PWM crusade confined to your thread about PWM.

 

[jon_slider]

questions on the battery, is it a standard size and can you replace it yourself?

someone else asked the same question, and got this response on another forum:

So Manker, is the battery user replaceable? Is it somehow a standardised cell you can buy? I hate to discard this light if the battery goes dead some day...

Hi, we can offer replacement battery once the the battery dead.

My opinion is the LAD has a battery that does not need replacing. Its more like a cell phone, the battery is a flat square pack that stays in the device. I do not expect to replace batteries on a LAD.

If you want a small light with a miniUSB charging option, but that still lets you remove and replace the battery, one option would be a light that uses a 10180 battery, more about those here and if you want it to come with a Nichia, here is a post about an M01 I bought recently Astrolux M01 w N219b… fwiw bangood has those on sale atm

I decided that to give to a college student that is not into flashlights, the Manker LAD would be a better choice, because the 10180 twisty lights are unreliable, they flicker if you dont twist to the right spot, which requires 2 hands and some fiddling. The LAD has a very simple interface that needs little explaining or training, and imo one of the advantages is that there is no need to change batteries. That is why I think the LAD is also a better choice, for my kid, than my Copper Tool that requires AAA batteries removed and replaced. Even though I love my Tool more, Im getting the LAD for someone that does not Want to change batteries.

 

[superedge88]

I just received my grey LAD and my first impressions are very positive! It's a little smaller than I thought (which is a pleasant surprise) the button seems to have good pressure resistance, interface is intuitive, and the brightness is more than I'd expect /need from a light this size.
The only issue I have is the red LEDs, they're much too focused. But I honestly don't plan on using the red LEDs much anyways so this doesn't bother me much.