McGizmo Regulation

[WTH]

The answer to this question is probably somewhere buried in these forums, but I looked and couldn't find it.

I have a McLuxIII PD with a Mule Mizer on the way. I use standard 123 cells, if that helps. I'm not sure if these lights use the same converters, but I have a question regarding regulation.

Can someone please explain how the regulation drop-off works in this light? I haven't run the McLux past regulation on the initial battery and I don't know what to expect from either that or the Mule.

Once the light can no longer maintain regulation in high, will it put out as much light as it can? If so, how long before the high setting and low setting are equal? In this case, will the low setting remain fully regulated?

And once it can't maintain the low setting, both high and low will output the same amount of light? And is there is "moon mode"? If so, how long will that last?

Any differences in regulation between Mizer and Non-Mizer?

Thank you in advance for your answers!!

 

[jch79]

WTH-

This (might) answer your quesion about regulation - if you're using a primary, it'll regulate, and then drop to direct drive. If you're using a protected R123, it'll regulate, and then shut off.

This shows three of Don's lights, each tested with an AW R123 Protected cell, and a SureFire 123 primary, on the high level... low level tests I usually leave up to the more patient! I didn't test my Mule, but you get the idea.

john

 

[WTH]

Thank you very much for the graph. That helps a lot, although it would be even more useful to have a similar graph for low mode.

The other question I am still curious about, how much "useful" light can I expect using a primary 123 cell, after regulation fails?

Thanks again!

 

[KenAnderson]

The other question I am still curious about, how much "useful" light can I expect using a primary 123 cell, after regulation fails?

Thanks again!

WTH, I believe the graph shows a primary 123 and a rechargable 123 on high mode for each model. Looks like the primary falls off to zero in a few minutes.

Ken

 

[WTH]

WTH, I believe the graph shows a primary 123 and a rechargable 123 on high mode for each model. Looks like the primary falls off to zero in a few minutes.

Ken

Yes, but the problem is, the graph ends at about 2 hours...

 

[jch79]

The other question I am still curious about, how much "useful" light can I expect using a primary 123 cell, after regulation fails?

You could probably check the McGizmo FAQ's - they have runtime tests somewhere... I think! :shrug: :thinking:

john

 

[WTH]

I looked through the FAQs initially and didn't see anything but I don't doubt its there somewhere.

I suppose I could run my own test with a stopwatch, if I can't find anything.

 

[Codeman]

I posted runtimes in my Ti-PD/PD-S/PD-S-Mizer Shootout. Look for Update #5 in the first post.

The McLuxIII-PD, Ti-PD, Ti-PD-S, Ti-PD-S-Mizer, Ti-PD-Mule, and Ti-PD-Mule-Mizer all use the GDx2 at 525mA on high, except for the Mules which are at 300mA.

 

[WTH]

Thanks Codeman! I think is what I'm looking for...although it brings up another question. In your comments, I read this: "14-lumen once per second strobe mode". Is this expected behavior? Anyone experience this in the Mule? Is it a "bug" or a "feature"?

 

[Scottiver]

Both of my PD's have no moon mode at all. They go from regulation to darkness instantly without any warning. They are probably somewhat dimmer towards the end of the batteries life but not much.
I generally use Energizer or Surefire primaries in them.

 

[WTH]

Both of my PD's have no moon mode at all. They go from regulation to darkness instantly without any warning. They are probably somewhat dimmer towards the end of the batteries life but not much.
I generally use Energizer or Surefire primaries in them.

Very interesting. No strobing or flashing? I had this problem with my Arc-P once, which left me in total darkness. I guess thats why its always good to carry a backup!

 

[Codeman]

Thanks Codeman! I think is what I'm looking for...although it brings up another question. In your comments, I read this: "14-lumen once per second strobe mode". Is this expected behavior? Anyone experience this in the Mule? Is it a "bug" or a "feature"?

Some individual cells, as they near depletion, cause this. For a split second, the cell can provide more current, so you get a flash. But then the cell can't provide as much current, so it quickly dims. After a short period, the cell recovers slightly and can provide another quick burst of higher current.

It's a common behavior, but not all lights do it and not all cells will cause it. Once you get to that point, it's really time to put in a fresh cell.

I pretty much only use Surefire cells in my McGizmo lights. Some cells show strobing, some just slowly fade until only a tiny portion of the emitter is excited. Some lights are more prone to it, as well.

My wording was tongue-in-cheek!

 

[Codeman]

Both of my PD's have no moon mode at all. They go from regulation to darkness instantly without any warning. They are probably somewhat dimmer towards the end of the batteries life but not much.
I generally use Energizer or Surefire primaries in them.

Have you talked to McGizmo about this? It sounds like direct drive mode isn't working in your lights. That's normal behavior for LithIon's, but not primary cells.:shrug:

 

[greenLED]

Both of my PD's have no moon mode at all. They go from regulation to darkness instantly without any warning. They are probably somewhat dimmer towards the end of the batteries life but not much.
I generally use Energizer or Surefire primaries in them.

Funny that you mention that. On my first battery (SF), my PD-S simply went out. I thought that was the normal behavior of the current converter.

The other day I put a depleted Varta cell in my PD, and got a quick "high" flash, and then the light went on low (no flickering). :shrug: I haven't tested to see how long they'd be able to power the light on "low".

 

[WTH]

Some individual cells, as they near depletion, cause this. For a split second, the cell can provide more current, so you get a flash. But then the cell can't provide as much current, so it quickly dims. After a short period, the cell recovers slightly and can provide another quick burst of higher current.

VERY interesting, and makes perfect sense. Thank you very much for your insights, and now I have a better idea of what to expect, and why.

Any reason you guys both use Surefire primaries? You really think they're better than something like the cheap batterystation or batteryjunction cells?

 

[Codeman]

Two reasons for me - Surefire cells, from what I've seen, are more consistent in regards to initial charge state and self-discharge rate than the cheaper cells, and they are rarely involved when mishaps have been reported in multi-cell lights. I still use a ZTS MBT-1 to match cells, but the confidence and resulting peace of mind is worth the extra cost to me. Duracell and Varta are just as good as Surefires, but I've never seen either at prices approaching what Surefire's cost. Plus, I got a deal several months ago and stocked up on enough Surefire's to last me at least a couple of years.

...
The other day I put a depleted Varta cell in my PD, and got a quick "high" flash, and then the light went on low (no flickering). :shrug: I haven't tested to see how long they'd be able to power the light on "low".

I've always been curious about just how completely the GDx2 drains cells. Since I got my first Ti McGizmo, I've been putting my drained cells in and letting it go until the emitter shows no glow at all. It usually takes 4-8 hours once it drops out of regulation. After the first 30 minutes or so of direct drive, the output is only good for locating the light or extremely close up illumination (1-3"). Even then, though, I can put the cells into my SplashLite and get a few hours of useable, walk to the bathroom light. But how long it does put out light is extremely variable, depending on which GDx2 has what cell in it. For example, my XR19C always goes out quicker than any of my PD's, and it never flickers. I can take a cell from the XR19C, put it into my PD-S, and have useable light (say 5-6 lumens) for a while. My Ti-PD-S flickers some quite often, but at a slow rate. My newest, a Ti-27-S-PD, flickers very often on a depleted cell, at a rate of several times a second. My Ti-27-S-Cx2 rarely flickers at all, but it runs forevers with the LED in "find me", ultra-low, mode.

I don't worry about the erratic behavior, though. Once a cell is depleted enough to start showing flashing/flickering, it's operating outside of the light's design parameters anyway. The only question that I really have is whether my incessant battery-draining does any damage. For some reason, staring at a partially excite emitter is almost hypnotizing to me.

 

[WTH]

I've always been curious about how much time I have with light, after signs of the battery being drained, after the one time I was left walking in pitch dark when my Arc when out.

My wife pointed out how ironic it was since I have purchased so many flashlights recently, and the one time we need it to walk in the dark, the only one I have on me bails.

I added a Photon Freedom to my keychain after that incident so this shouldn't happen again.

W

 

[greenLED]

That's really interesting, Codeman. Individual converter variation from the inductor (do GDx2's have inductors) and/or other board components? Add cell manufacturer variation, and that would explain why we're seeing different things.

 

[Codeman]

Yeah, I suspect it's simply a matter of tolerance stacks in a given light. If you want to go way out into left field, once my 27PD stops flickering and goes into a low glow, simply touching the light is usually enough to start the flickering back up for a bit. If just touching it isn't enough, picking it up and turning it 90° can start it back up.

I think of it as being like a box of Cracker Jacks. Once you get to the bottom of a cell, a surprise awaits!

I need to shut up. The real EE's around here are probably laughing their asterisks off at me and Don may cut me off!

 

[Kiessling]

I am wondering about the enormous difference in runtime between the PD-S and the XR19-C on SF123 ... they should use the same converter and drive current leaving the LED as a variable. But somehow I can't believe that the difference between a Seoul and a Cree can do all that ...
bernie