Misc Maglite Rambling. 3D

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

Back when I was able to do so I bought a 3D Mag with 3 12000mAh NimH D some form of regulated driver and what I believe to be a Q5.

It will pull right at 1A from the three D and about 750mA from 4 sub C Nicad. Since I can't quickly run it back to back I can't tell if 4 sub C results in any better output but I think not. The wet finger trick does not make the LED glow.

It is not enough better than Magleds or the Terrelux that's in my 2C Mag.

I can't see where the wires attach to the LED. There is an aluminum slug under the LED.

It has what appears to be an FM cammed/camless MOP. I cut down a stock Mag reflector as a test and it does 'throw' better but beam quality gets LOUSY.

A 3" head might make it better.

I can't pay for a mod. I could possibly trade for one. I have a couple knives, a couple old fishing reels, and some die cast Cranes as possible fodder.

What do my esteemed modder types think??

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

Oh Man! This ain't right!

Was just outside trying this Mag again. The lightly (when a spray can is splttered on) reflector from my 2D/3C P7 Mag gives a fairly tight fairly clean beam.

2 2 cell Magled drop ins (one on 2C and one on 2D) held there own against this obviously defective 3D Q5. Even a Terrelux I have driven by one 18650 gives very little or nothing away to this Q5.

A 2D Rebel Mag with 6AA in a 2S/3P set up SMOKES this thing.

Somebody who wants a couple decent knives or something TALK TO ME!

 

[eebowler]

I believed I tried Cree XRE LEDs with a mag reflector and the results were not spectacular at all... A 1A current draw should be something like 800mA to the LED. Even with a Q5, that should more than blow away a standard Mag LED flashlight.

Remove the head assemblies and compare overall outputs of your mags. Personally, I think a different (seoul) LED would be a better(cheaper) alternative than a 3" head.

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

You're right! It even kills the Rebel with both heads off and it SLAUGHTERS the Magleds!

So what does that tell us?

Edit: With an absolutely SMO stock reflector cut down it has a pretty bright spot that will reach anything any of my lights will in my back yard test area. But it is a small spot. My D2Flex P7 Mag will put a wall of light in the same place with a MOP reflector!

I once had (and know I didn't throw it away or any such) an Aspheric for a Mag. I think it came with this one. I can't find it.

 

[eebowler]

I think you should search high and low for that aspherical! (Don't even bother thinking about removing the dome of the LED. For whatever reason, output is noticably reduced when this is done.)

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

Finally after MUCH searching and hair pulling I found the Aspherical! Now to put some plumbing tape to stop the head from rattling when out for a spot!

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

I must say that in the case of THIS Q5 Mag the Aspherical is THE answer!

That said that big glass bubble outside the head is scary!

Most of my big lights stand on their heads. This one has to lay down. I never much liked 'moon beams' from lights. But at least it's a BRIGHT moon beam!

PS the P7 behind an Aspherical is interesting! When focused there are 4 perfect squares. De-focused it throws better than the MOP reflector. But in the case of that light MOP is the better answer.

Thanks eebowler!

 

[Tmad]

Are you using the asperical with a reflector? If so take the reflector out and you should get A LOT more throw. I made that mistake when I first got my asperical. It should throw a perfect image of the die (square).

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

I knew that. I even looked at turning the Aspherical in towards the LED but it would always be too spread out that way.

Oh yeah, it'll throw a square!

But for general use the farther in the Aspherical is the output spreads out.

It's always (besides the square) a moon beam but like a said a bright moon beam!

 

[LukeA]

I usually focus aspherics to the phosphor and not the die. It's brighter that way. Basically find the sharp focus for the die and back the head out about 2 full turns.

The 4 oz. Rubbermaid "Servin' Saver" fits perfectly around the mag head and will protect the lens really well. Just cut the rim of the container off and drill a small vent hole in its bottom to prevent suction. Scuff the container and it will work as a diffuser, too.

 

[Linger]

take the reflector out and you should get A LOT more throw.

Its an illusion. Aspheric lenses may seem to throw further because of the sharp transition from hotspot to nothing. e.g. you see a clear line on the distant trees where your beam is hitting.
All other things being equal, adding or removing a reflector has no impact on the cone of light that leaves the emitter and enters the aspheric lens. The reflector cannot decrease throw from the lens - how could it? The reflector is on a completely separate path.
What may happen is the reflected light is directed through the aspheric as well, produces a ring around the projected image of the emitter. Try this with an orange peel reflector, very cool effect.
Lose the reflector for a cleaner beam and that's how 'everyone' does it, but it isn't more light as you're losing all the output to the sides.

 

[eebowler]

Linger, this is true even if you use a really small, say 17 mm reflector? Dosn't the sidespill from the LED contribute to the main beam in any way? What if you use an even smaller relfector such as one cut down to the sharpest focusing point of the aspherical?

(If it's not obvious, I've never used one before.)

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

I've never even considered trying a reflector and I don't believe I'll try it now because it was somewhat of a pain to get the optic to stop moving in the head!

I have a few other lights I'd like to try it in though....

 

[Linger]

Aspheric - big lens that takes the larger image of the die hitting the back and focuses it into a smaller image of the die which projects out the front.

How would side-spill join this if there is no reflector? If it hits the side of, say a m@g head, that's the end of the journey.
If you use a reflector, the beam naturally forms a perimitter around the outside of the die image. think of the angle the light from the die hits the bottom flat surface of the aspheric at. Then consider, any sidespill goes sideways to the reflector, and is redirected up to the bottom of the aspheric lens. Point is, the light direct from the die, and the light coming off the reflector, have different vectors. Therefore it is not possible to re-unit these two paths into one collaminated beam. The result is an image of the die projected forward, and a surrounding ring (like a starburst that fades towards the perimeter) which is the image of the reflector projected forward.

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

I am dead set against it for two reasons.

First is the fact that right now it is solid in the head.

Second is this Mag hoovered with any reflector I was able to try. I'm not sure why but ALL KINDS of light was getting lost with a reflector.

But in the interest of science I'll try it.

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

OK. With reflector there is all sorts of garbage outside the image of the die which won't get as tight as the optic by itself.

Experiment = FAIL!

With just the Optic there is a little garbage within a short distance outside the die image. In practice outside the garbage disappears.

 

[Linger]

Sounds like your experience was mostly as expected. The 'garbage' you saw is how the light is coming off the reflector - done with an OP reflector you get a very nice expanded image of the reflector surface surrounding the image of the die.
At any rate, you've confirmed for yourself what is the best route at present: pure optic, the configuration almost all aspheric users take.

which won't get as tight as the optic by itself.

Right, failing the proviso 'all other things being equal.' You'd need to have the optic in the same position in both cases to keep it from becoming a variable itself.
I'm not sure what 'hoovered' means strange that output was going down with a plain reflector set-up.

Glad a good setup makes the light perform well. Because the throw from the aspheric is a function of the intensity of light coming off the emitter, smallest / brightest die throws farthest. You're at Q5 now, going up to R2 gives a slight increase on paper but just as likely there'd be no visible difference outdoors.

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

It's quite funny in a way. I generally HATE lights that make a moonbeam.

But that is almost exactly what is happening when the optic is not perfectly focusing the die.

But in a way it is spot/corona.

Anyhow it's approx. 100yds to the back gate. The image of the die pretty well covers the gate. It's not exactly a laser beam.

Anyhow even though I dislike moonbeam I do like this Aspherical!!!

 

[Benson]

You're right! It even kills the Rebel with both heads off and it SLAUGHTERS the Magleds!

So what does that tell us?

Well, what that tells us, or rather what the datasheet tells us, and your experience confirms, is that the XR LEDs have a substantially narrower than gaussian beam profile, so less light hits the reflector (and gets focused into the throw), and more goes straight out the front (into the spill). To get good beams from XRs, you need an aspheric (which makes the narrow profile an advantage) or a reflector made for them.

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

Huh! I guess a properly modded FM 2.5 Throwmaster would work but at a bit over a C note NO THANKS!