Monster powered lights with multiple 18650s question ....

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

I was looking at a Black Shadow Terminator and the Olight Mini Intimidators lights just because I don't have any one light with a lot of horse power. I don't really need a light that powerful, but you know how it is, the flashoholic thing and just to be able to catch stuff on fire with just a flashlight ... :touche:


Assuming you use all the same brand and mAh of 18650 and charged to the same starting point, the batteries should drain evenly, correct?

I wonder if the flashlight's low power light senses the lowest battery? ( because you know there is always going to be one a little lower than the others ) ... or does it sense an average? If it's an average, it could be a problem if one battery is weaker than the rest.

Anyone high powered light owners here that can add their 2 cents? Thanks.

 

[JohnnyBravo]

I use 2 Orbtronic 3500MAH cells in my JetBeam WL-S4 (2600 lumens) w/ its MTG2 LED. I charge them both in my Omni-Dok charger. After using the light for a while, I take out the batteries and test them. They seem to discharge evenly. I date and use my batteries in even pairs/sets etc.

 

[Timothybil]

Any voltage sensing circuitry inside the light is going to read the average of the cells. That said, that is why any good advice about charging Li-Ion cells includes the use of a voltmeter. If you see one cell consistently reading a lower voltage that the others after being used, As long as said cell recharges to the same voltage as the others there should not be a problem. If it starts to occur that each time the cell is drained, the voltage drops a little further in relation to its kin, then that cell might be becoming a problem. There will always be a slight variation between cells after use, and that's ok. It is when one or more cells is showing an increase in variation that there may be a problem.
That is where the questions start. What to do? Let's say you have a four cell light like the TM06. With one cell behaving like this, as far as I am concerned you now have a single usable cell and a set of three cells, but no longer a set of four. That would mean purchasing a new set of four for the original light, and using the still usable four cells in other or or two cell lights, keeping in mind that the one cell should be used by itself and monitored, since it will probably wear out earlier than the others.

This is my current understanding, and I am open to further enlightenment by any of our Li-Ion gurus who can shed a better light on the subject.

 

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

Thanks, I suppose numbering and logging the batteries would be a good start. Maybe top all the batteries up ( I have a xtar V4B charger ) and then log the starting voltage. Then use the light for a while but pull the batteries before the low power light comes on. Checking them at mid charge should indicate any concerning trends. If they are all even, then they are probably safe to run until the low power light comes on. I'm just concerned with a weak link battery or a reverse charging / dangerous situation.

 

[ven]

Of past and every so often i will check the V of the cells to make sure all is well. Not every time, maybe every 5th time after the initial check and always have the V within 0.1v(of course slight discrepancies from the MM and charger).

I also have sets of cells for each light and stay with the light locked out(or in a case with the light). So i wont raid single 18650 lights for 4 cells to feed a 4 cell light as one example. Touch wood, out of all the lights used and amount of cells, i have had no issues with voltages etc etc.

Many(ok most) are INR/IMR cells without PCB's "naked" and prefer using them over protected for size,ease of fitting removing from carriers(and most of mine require higher drain). Good chargers as with cells go hand in hand and reduce any chances of issues down the line. Learning how the light eats mah, rough times(or even letting the light tell you " no more high mode") gives ideas on the cells V before removing and checking.

Using protected cells gives an extra buffer and piece of mind for some, however if the cells are tripping regular through over use then its not an ideal chemistry for the user imo.

As you already have some 18650 fed lights, your more advanced than many who just go out and buy one without research and a member here!. Any issues i am sure people will advise

The mini is the one i have owned out of the mentioned, mine is a boosted vinh version and it happily run on KeepPower 3400mah protected food . Cell voltage was always spot on too.

Treat yourself and be blown away(not literally of course)

 

[ven]

How about this!


:laughing:

 

[wardroid]

I was looking at a Black Shadow Terminator and the Olight Mini Intimidators lights just because I don't have any one light with a lot of horse power. I don't really need a light that powerful, but you know how it is, the flashoholic thing and just to be able to catch stuff on fire with just a flashlight ... :touche:


Assuming you use all the same brand and mAh of 18650 and charged to the same starting point, the batteries should drain evenly, correct?

I wonder if the flashlight's low power light senses the lowest battery? ( because you know there is always going to be one a little lower than the others ) ... or does it sense an average? If it's an average, it could be a problem if one battery is weaker than the rest.

Anyone high powered light owners here that can add their 2 cents? Thanks.

I have the Olight mini intimidator and it's a total junk. doesn't last and their customer service is crap.

high lumen flashlights are great in case of power outages. you stand it on its tail and it lights up the whole room.

 

[archimedes]

Batteries do not always drain evenly in multi-cell setups, for lots of reasons (temperature, internal resistance, passivation, etc, etc) .

.... Yes, this is a major reason for the substantially increased risk of multi-cell torches. And high output, with the associated high current and high temperatures further magnifies this risk.

 

[NoNotAgain]

Whenever I purchase a new light I also purchase a set of batteries for it. As of recent, I've standardized on the Panasonic 18650BE cell. Affordable price, supposedly 10 amp maximum discharge rate and good capacity.

The first day or two after the batteries are charged up, I'll run the light pretty hard for around an hour, then pull the batteries paying attention to what position they came out of. Voltage is measured and gets rerun. Since the BE cell is unprotected, I test to determine how long I can run it before the voltage drops to 3.4 volts and make note of that time.

Just about all of the lights stay loaded and locked out till use. I rotate lights every couple of days, and during the time of year for day light savings usually use lights with more spill. Late fall/winter, my throwers get more use.

Partially charging a lithium ion battery won't create a memory like a NiCad, so batteries usually get pulled after walks and charged for the next day. Lights like the Fenix TK41 that stay in the car and truck are filled with Eneloops get charged once a month.

Learn your light and use quality batteries, you won't have an issue.

I see Ven has a new style battery carrier based on the large contact button. Load the TK75vn up with all three carriers and have some fun sir.

 

[ven]

I see Ven has a new style battery carrier based on the large contact button. Load the TK75vn up with all three carriers and have some fun sir.[/QUOTE]

Hi there , it's the tk75 2015 carrier , the other two are from the kits which Fenix have not updated yet. The bugbare for me is the knurling , this so far is the old style and could not source any run time kits to match the newer 2015 knurling.

I will do once the weather lets up :laughing: The shoulder strap will be very useful come that time!

 

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

Batteries do not always drain evenly in multi-cell setups, for lots of reasons (temperature, internal resistance, passivation, etc, etc) .

.... Yes, this is a major reason for the substantially increased risk of multi-cell torches. And high output, with the associated high current and high temperatures further magnifies this risk.

:sweat:


Hmmm, you guys may be saving me some money here!!

 

[archimedes]

With great power comes great responsibility ...

 

[NoNotAgain]

:sweat:


Hmmm, you guys may be saving me some money here!!

Come on man, get off the porch and run with the big dogs!

I better not come over to your house and find out that you've removed any of the "Do Not Remove under penalty of Law" tags.

Just follow basic safety instructions on the charging and use of any energetic product and you'll be fine.

Enough people have posted to this thread giving you instructions of how to safely handle and use lithium ion batteries. Jump on in and open your world to multi cell lights. There's no turning back now.

 

[magnum70383]

I remember way back when I only limited myself to AA lights. Boy what a life changer when I started with lithiums. Now I'm going onto custom lights

 

[KeepingItLight]

The Olight SR52UT runs 3x18650, where all batteries are connected in parallel. That is inherently safer than a series configuration. By all reports, the the SR52UT is a very nice flashlight: in-light recharging, 1100 lumens, 160,000cd, and 800m.

Here is the review by CPF member FlashLion. Here is another by kj2.

I do not own the SR52UT, so I cannot recommend it based on personal experience.

 

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

How about this!


:laughing:

That thing could probably torch a tree 100 feet away!!

 

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

Come on man, get off the porch and run with the big dogs!

I better not come over to your house and find out that you've removed any of the "Do Not Remove under penalty of Law" tags.

Just follow basic safety instructions on the charging and use of any energetic product and you'll be fine.

Enough people have posted to this thread giving you instructions of how to safely handle and use lithium ion batteries. Jump on in and open your world to multi cell lights. There's no turning back now.

* checks all do not remove penalty tags * :sweat:

 

[ven]

Doc, just do it! you know enough, you have here, it really is no big deal. Common sense is key and being a Dr:nana: i am sure you must have some

Having 1 or 2 varieties myself, my enjoyment would be no where near without multi cell power houses. Single cell are great and perfect for a happy medium of performance/output/size but when you want to light a field/lake.......whatever , nothing comes close.

Also even without the turbo modes and even highs of maybe 2000+lm, you have the advantages of very long run times on lower outputs, maybe 200-400lm types. So not just for high outputs, but long run time benefits come that power outage or search party time. Never once have i felt uncomfortable using or worrying about an issue. You like Fenix, the tk75 is a pretty good start imo, fantastic light with a very useful throw/spill and typical Fenix build.

:laughing: your not far off with torching a tree, the heat out front is unbelievable ...............from a foot away my hand gets very very warm. But as with most high output lights, the turbo is for a blast, quick scan or checking about and the lower modes for longer duration's. Even with vinhs driver on 30% its over 4500lm(most used mode) .

 

[lightlover]

............... Having 1 or 2 varieties myself ...............

ven, surely, you mean:

"Having 10 or 20 varieties myself"

 

[Swedpat]

Nice I find this thread today. I have wondered about this issue about batteries: I have ordered several cells of same kind. Some of them intended for single cell lights. Other for multi cell lights. For example: from the beginning I start to charge up the cells in the same charger together. Then I decide two cells to be a couple(then never separated). It's the same cell model from the same package. Charged together and used together in a light. Still one of them can show 3,7V while the other 3,9V when I take them out from the light.
And while one of the cell can be confirmed to be fully charged at a certain time the other need another half hour or so. Is that normal? And the cells can be the renowned AW brand. May an explanation be that the charger does not charge equally at all slots? (I have used renowned chargers as Pila IBC and Fenix ARE-C2) Or are the different cells in my ordered package not from the same production batch(one can be some year older than the other?). Sometimes one cell can be confirmed to fully charged at 4,1V. I take it out and put it in the charger again and then it charge up to 4,2V. Sometimes a cell can be showed 4,2V but never confirmed as fully charged. And so on...

I have tried to read about this matter but it's still complicated!