My M*g 458

[jmpaul320]

some goodies from fivemega arrived today!!!:thumbsup:

after a bit of monkeying with the battery carrier i realized i wasnt getting voltage because the washer at the negative side of the battery carrier was loose (where the center post screws into)

fired it up, bulb smoked for about 15-20 seconds... then started getting dimmer ... fast... turned off and on a few times and same thing happened... lol DEAD BATTERIES!:sick2: (either than or they were close to dead and under 10+ amps the voltage sagged into no mans land)

of course my smart charger wont be here till wednesday, so i am currently in the process of charging 16 2AH aa batteries in sets of 4 @ 700mah on my regular charger lol might be a while before i get beamshots:popcorn:

 

[jmpaul320]

Re: My M*g 428

the amount of heat this thing puts out is beyond words... after 1 minute you will scald your hand if you touch the pyrex lense. after the 2 min i shut it down to cool for a bit... my guess is that the bezel was somewhere north of 150º at that point... (note to self, by laser thermometer)

even at 22.2v off the charger i did not flash the bulb :) also i found a good source for the 458 bulbs for about $4.50 shipped

the firefoxes 3 has been dethroned as my brightest light!

ff3 - 550 lux ceiling bounce
mag458 720!! :rock::rock::rock:

lasts about 11-12 minutes before it needs to be recharged :lol: practical? in no way shape or form... and loving every bit of it!

 

[badtziscool]

Re: My M*g 428

Nice build! No one ever said being a flashaholic meant being practical.

 

[fivemega]

Re: My M*g 428

My M*g 428

I guess you meant M*g 458

 

[ma_sha1]

Re: My M*g 428

the firefoxes 3 has been dethroned as my brightest light!

ff3 - 550 lux ceiling bounce
mag428 - 720!! :rock::rock::rock:

Cheating, the 428/458 almost touching the ceiling :laughing:

 

[jmpaul320]

I guess you meant M*g 458

Lol. Blame that on too much beer

 

[Lumencraft (Matt)]

That is such a good looking animal. I miss the days where super incan mods topped the CPF charts each day. Its good to see there is still some love for the incan lights.

 

[mr.lumen]

so how would this compare to a mag623? i want to get one if someone will make me one, or maybe i should make it my self..hmmm yours is beautiful

 

[Hoop]

Niceeeeeeeee. That's a pretty light. Some serious lumens coming out of this sucker. Does it throw or is it a wall of light? Would love to see those beamshots!

 

[jmpaul320]

It puts out a nice combination of throw and flood. I have a vlop and mop reflector. Currently favoring the mop. Ill try and get some beanshots up soon. Id say this thing is putting out 10k bulb lumens plus. (Reference luxs spreadsheet) probably 6500 or 7k otf. Run time like 8 minutes lol.

Can't say how it compares to a mag 623 ... only thing I have to go by are luxs spreadsheets.

 

[Hoop]

Well the 623 has a horizontal filament, so I imagine your 458 has a much better beam. The 623 chart shows that it goes :poof: at much lower voltages than the 458 and the 458 seems to really shine at above the 623 poof voltages. If you are looking for more practicality you might give a 447 a shot. They barely get warm and are more efficient.

 

[zehnmm]

so how would this compare to a mag623? i want to get one if someone will make me one, or maybe i should make it my self..hmmm yours is beautiful

Hello mr.lumen. I have run lights with both the Osram 90W 64458, and the Osram 100W 62138. For both of them, they pulled about 10 amps and stout batteries were needed. But, I used to have one of the older AWR hotdrivers for the 62138. To be honest, while the light was bright and I liked it, I flashed several 62138s, even with the hotdriver. FYI, my hotdriver eventually failed and is no more. The 62138 bulb, rated at 25 hours, is known to be able to take up to about 13.2 volts. Hence, with 12x AA fully charged nimh batteries, it will flash at direct drive. You can direct drive it with 11 AA batteries. Otherwise, you will need some sort of soft start type of switch, like AW's. The good thing about the 62138 is that the light it puts out is a very pleasing white incan beam very unlike today's bright LEDs.

Now, the 64458 is another story. That bulb is rated at 4000 hours. Hence, it can be overdriven much more than the 62138. While its beam is very much more yellow than the 62138, it is still ok in my old eyes. According to lux's test tables, it flashed at about 20.5 volts. I have been running that bulb, along with, as well, 3 other Osram IRC 4000 hour offerings (64432 35W; 64440 50W; and 64447 65W.) My host is a Mag 4D, with boro lens, FM reflector, modified switch, and 5x AW 26500s. (Unfortunately, AW no longer offers the 26500s. Sigh.) As of now, I keep that light at my bedstand with the 64432 35W bulb in it. My sphere shows it to put out about 1750 otf lumens. Runs for about 45 min. It is my bump-in-the-night light where I want to really light things up, mostly outside. In short, I heartily recommend the Osram IRC lights. Even though I mostly have moved over to LEDs, I have yet to find one so far with a beam that is as pleasing as an incan.

Having said all this, if you are interested in hotwires, one of the best persons, if not the very best, here on CPF to follow is Fivemega. I have used his creations quite a bit and cannot say enough nice things about his work.

 

[jmpaul320]

I run my 458 cells at 21.5+/- volts and I do not flash the 458 bulb. I think bc the voltage sags quickly under 10a.

For reference the cells are 22.7 fresh off the charger +/- 0.1v

I will be looking for diff cells for my next batch. The elite 2000mah are crap imo. They supply the required amps but the voltage sag is not acceptable. Theoretically I should get 10 to 12 mind of run time but on 16 balanced cells the best I've gotten was about 7.5. If I use my quick charger I get 5 mins.

 

[Justin Case]

Hello mr.lumen. I have run lights with both the Osram 90W 64458, and the Osram 100W 62138. For both of them, they pulled about 10 amps and stout batteries were needed. But, I used to have one of the older AWR hotdrivers for the 62138. To be honest, while the light was bright and I liked it, I flashed several 62138s, even with the hotdriver. FYI, my hotdriver eventually failed and is no more.

Have you tried the JimmyM JM-PHD-D1 incan regulator? You can set it up for whatever Vbulb you want and also implement slow, medium, or fast soft start.

 

[zehnmm]

I run my 458 cells at 21.5+/- volts and I do not flash the 458 bulb. I think bc the voltage sags quickly under 10a.

For reference the cells are 22.7 fresh off the charger +/- 0.1v

I will be looking for diff cells for my next batch. The elite 2000mah are crap imo. They supply the required amps but the voltage sag is not acceptable. Theoretically I should get 10 to 12 mind of run time but on 16 balanced cells the best I've gotten was about 7.5. If I use my quick charger I get 5 mins.

Hello jmpaul320. Sounds like a good idea to check around for some batteries. Back when I was using one of FM's holders (12aa-3d), that was an issue. Let us know what you find.

I should like to build on your notes about 21.5 volts to the 458 bulb. In my instance --- with a kiu switch and the fm battery holder in a quad-bored Mag 3D --- I estimated that the voltage resistance that I was getting was 0.2 ohms. Hence, where voltage loss = amps x ohms, for a 10 amp application, the voltage loss was 2 volts (10 amps x 0.2 ohms.) If, for sake of argument, that you are at 11 amps for 21.5 volts, then the voltage sag is 11 x 0.2 = 2.2. Hence, the actual volts delivered to the bulb is 21.5 - 2.2 = 19.3 at that point. That could be why your 458 is not flashing. Now, having said that, without some measurements using your light, I cannot say that the resistance is 0.2 ohms. If it turns out your resistance is less, say 0.1 ohms, then the delivered volts would be 21.5 - 1.1 = 20.4. 20.4 should not flash the 458, if we believe the test tables showing that it would flash at 21.5 volts.

 

[zehnmm]

Have you tried the JimmyM JM-PHD-D1 incan regulator? You can set it up for whatever Vbulb you want and also implement slow, medium, or fast soft start.

Hello Justin Case. No, I have not. I have heard some good things about it. If I were still pursuing incan hotwires now, that could be worthwhile. I am down to two hotwires (ROP and my Mag 4D+5xIMR26500s.) Sold my bored 3d and 12aa-3d FM battery holder.

 

[jmpaul320]

Hello jmpaul320. Sounds like a good idea to check around for some batteries. Back when I was using one of FM's holders (12aa-3d), that was an issue. Let us know what you find.

I should like to build on your notes about 21.5 volts to the 458 bulb. In my instance --- with a kiu switch and the fm battery holder in a quad-bored Mag 3D --- I estimated that the voltage resistance that I was getting was 0.2 ohms. Hence, where voltage loss = amps x ohms, for a 10 amp application, the voltage loss was 2 volts (10 amps x 0.2 ohms.) If, for sake of argument, that you are at 11 amps for 21.5 volts, then the voltage sag is 11 x 0.2 = 2.2. Hence, the actual volts delivered to the bulb is 21.5 - 2.2 = 19.3 at that point. That could be why your 458 is not flashing. Now, having said that, without some measurements using your light, I cannot say that the resistance is 0.2 ohms. If it turns out your resistance is less, say 0.1 ohms, then the delivered volts would be 21.5 - 1.1 = 20.4. 20.4 should not flash the 458, if we believe the test tables showing that it would flash at 21.5 volts.

Thanks for the info. I wish I could take accurate measurements since this is a high power build but I only have a cheap multimeter.

I wonder if eneloops would work? I've read they are good to 10 a.

Also I would consider lifepo batteries but I don't think I can fit enough cells in a 4 d mag.

Where is ma sha? I bet he has an idea :p

 

[zehnmm]

Hello jmpaul320. As for Eneloops, I am one who is very impressed with them. I have used them all through my house in various applications, including some flashlights that take AAs. Back when I was using my Mag 3D hotwire with the AWR hotdriver, I used 12 eneloops for an Osram 64610 50W bulb. I computed that the amp pull from that setup was 4.36 at 13.0 volts using hotwire rerating formulas. The light from the 64610 was one of the most pleasing incans that I have tried. In short, I observed that the Eneloops did very well. But, I did try to direct drive some 100W bulbs with the Eneloops, where the amp draw was 8 and higher. The lights worked, but the sag hit very early. My conclusion was that the Eneloops work reasonably satisfactory up to the 4 to 5 amp range, but not 8 or more.


Some time back, I used CBP 1650's, which were purported to be the best high drain AA's around at the time. I did not find they lived up to that in the 8 amp+ area. For the first minute or so they were ok, but after that the voltage sag really kicked in. I also tried another brand that was supposed to be pretty good (I believe they were Titanium Power Max 1800s....) but they were not all that great in my opinion either. Wish I could recommend a good battery and source for you, but for now, I am at a loss.

While you intend to just use the 458 bulb, you might give the Osram IRC 35W 64432 (should pull around 4.1 amps at 18.0V), or the Osram IRC 50W 64440 (5.1 amps), or the Osram 65W 64447 (6.4 amps) a try. I know this is CPF blasphemy to suggest backing off! But, to be honest, after trying all of those bulbs, including the 64458, I actually prefer the 35W 64432. Less bright? Yes. But, I figure at CCT 3400 (with 18.5 volts applied), it is still a very good looking beam. I calculate my 64610 was running not quite CCT 3500 at 13.2 volts, and it was very pleasing to me.

Trying out these bulbs might be a bit of fun for you with your setup. (After reading all these posts, it almost makes me want to go back and re-live my earlier hotwire days! I really like your light.)

 

[jmpaul320]

Thanks for all the input. I may try some diff options. I already have a mag85 with a fm socket that will fit most 6.35 and other bi pin bulbs. The setup pictured above has fms ceramic socket which.should hold up to high temps. So maybe ill get a few bulbs you mentioned and play with different options.

I am using elite 2000 mah. They hold up well for about 3 or 4 minutes then the sag really hits as the voltage drops. I doubt I will find a minh that is in production that will hold up for much longer. I would think I would have to go lifepo to get better results.

 

[Justin Case]

I have a 4D Mag with 1D extension, loaded with 6xIMR26500 to power an Osram 64440IRC bulb. The switch is modified with a Kiu socket kit and a JimmyM JM-PHD-D1 regulator set to Vbulb=19.5V. The light is topped with an FM Throwmaster head, which works very well with the 64440IRC's axial filament.