New charger, some questions

[TinderBox (UK)]

I just ordered an Thunder AC6 Dual Input Balance Charger and have been reading though the downloaded user guide.

I am having some problems with the abbreviation for the battery types, see the highlighted one below, Lilo is this an standard li-ion battery.

If Lilo is Li-ion, I thought the voltage was 3.7volts and the max charge was 4.2volts not 3.6v and 4.1v as in the guide below.

information from the user guide below.

Lilo voltage level: 3.6V/cell
max. charge voltage: 4.1V/cell
allowable fast charge current : 1C or less
min. discharge voltage cut off level: 2.5V/
cell or higher
LiPo voltage level: 3.7V/cell
max. charge voltage: 4.2V/cell
allowable fast charge current : 1C or less
min. discharge voltage cut off level: 3.0V/
cell or higher
LiFe voltage level: 3.3V/cell
max. charge voltage: 3.6V/cell
allowable fast charge current : 4C or less
(e.g.A123M1)
min. discharge voltage cut off level: 2.0V/
cell or higher
Pb voltage level: 2

 

[core]

I am having some problems with the abbreviation for the battery types, see the highlighted one below, Lilo is this an standard li-ion battery.

If Lilo is Li-ion, I thought the voltage was 3.7volts and the max charge was 4.2volts not 3.6v and 4.1v as in the guide below.

45/70 gave me a good explanation when I had similar questions in a thread the other day:

It's actually "LiIo" meaning lithium ion. Also, you normally use the "LiPo" setting anymore for LiCo and LiMn Li-Ion cells, as they can be charged at 4.20 Volts nowadays. It used to be that LiCo cells were charged to 4.10 Volts. You can of course charge these chemistry cells at the "LiIo" setting (4.10 Volts) to extend their cycle life, but at the expense of their being only about 90% charged.

So I guess the short answer is you'd use the LiPo rather than LiLo setting for "modern" Li-Ions. As for what qualifies as "modern", you got me. When I can't locate a datasheet for a given cell it's just plug n' pray for me.

 

[TinderBox (UK)]

So this charger software and manual is old an outdated , I have not even got it yet and i am peeved off.

Have you seen the difference in discharge level cut-off between lilo 2.5v and liPo 3.0v, so if you are charging lilo use the liPo setting , but if you are doing a discharde use the lilo setting , it`s a clear as mud :shakehead

EDIT : I think the easy way is to use lilo for li-ion and just out up with the slight capacity loss, I will get a longer lifespan on the battery with a lower termination voltage anyway.

EDIT 2 : maybe this is an old manual , and it supports the 3.7volt li-ion cells , maybe there is a firmware update, who makes the Thunder AC6 , is there a manufactures website ???

Thanks for the help.

 

[core]

Hrmmm I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that the manual (or charger) is outdated.

Yes, it does support 3.7V Li-Ion cells. And you use the LiPo mode to charge those. Simple.

Are you just bothered because your cell is a Lithium Ion and you want to select "the" Lithium Ion setting?

I've not used the LiLo setting once, and I'm not sure I personally would ever have a reason to. Mine tends to leave the cells at 4.16-4.17V hot off the charger in LiPo mode so no reason to opt for even lower I think.

Why not forget that "other" LiLo setting is there and just be happy?

Edit: I guess if you want to drain your cells down to 2.5V that would be one use for it. *shrug*

 

[45/70]

So this charger software and manual is old an outdated , I have not even got it yet and i am peeved off.

Hi TinderBox.

Most hobby chargers that I've seen use the "LiIo" and "LiPo" nomenclature. Outdated? Yeah, maybe, but I'll let SilverFox or one of the more R/C oriented members here, elaborate on that, but they all seem to still have both settings.

As I understand it, the "LiIo" and "LiPo" settings were used primarily, to keep cylindrical LiCo (which are referred to as Li-Ion cells, even though "LiCo" lithium cobalt oxide, "LiPo" lithium polymer (which are also a form of LiCo cell), and "LiFe" lithium iron phosphate cells, are all lithium ion cells, confused yet?) separate from "LiPo" cells, which usually are a non cylindrical flat type pack utilizing a paste electrolyte, as opposed to a liquid.

Some time ago (before 2000?), the maximum charging voltage for cylindrical LiCo cells was 4.10 Volts, whereas LiPo cells could be charged to 4.20 Volts. As I pointed out to core in the other thread, modern (again, post 2000?) cylindrical LiCo cells can be charged to 4.20 Volts.

As for discharging cells, I would use the "LiPo" discharge regimen for LiCo cells. The difference between stopping the discharge at 3 volts, as opposed to 2.5 volts is probably negligible however, as at either voltage the cells are pretty much "dead".

One more point that core brought up, here and in the other thread, is that some websites and forums refer to the "LiIo" setting as "LiLo". As near as I can figure out, this is the result of somebody, somewhere, mistaking an upper case "I" to be a lower case "L". I won't even attempt to explain what happened here. Things are complicated enough as it is.

Dave