# New Coast x7 1000 lumen light "D" cell

#### Sarratt

##### Enlightened
It's not really old news but it has'nt had as many comments on it as I thought it would.

I do like the looks of the P14 but my concerns are with the regulation and throw (focused would it be that greater than my L2D Q5).

#### Jauno

##### Newly Enlightened

I don`t think so..
Advertised 1060+ lumens divided by 7 led is ~150 lumen per 1 emitter.

This is just estimate, but let´s say that to achieve that 150lm per one led, you don´t have to use 1 Amp current draw, something like 0.7A is enough.

7 x 0.7A = 4.9A is total current draw.
I don´t know what is current draw of original incan 3D maglite, but i think it´s lot less than 4,9A.
So when 3D maglite gives us bright and powerfull light only less than hour, see this chart, then LL X-21 with much higher amp rate performs much lower :thumbsdow

If actual amp rate per emitter (and therefore light´s total A) is higher than 0.7A then output/runtime chart looks even worse.
If actual amp rate is lower, then output will be far from advertised 1000+ lumens.
Advert lumens maybe too much anyway.

This is "nature" of alkalines :sick2:

Wolf-Eyes´s new 7 x Cree led light should be much more better performer, it has 3 x 18650 li-ion`s

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#### MattK

##### Flashlight Enthusiast
If the emitters are Q5/R2 the current to achieve 150L each is more like 450-550a. Let's say a max of 600 if they're Q4's 7 x 600 = 4.2Ah X ~3.5Vf = ~14.7W

Assuming an alkaline D cell is ~19Ah, the light uses 4 cells; 1.5 x 19 x 4 = 114W. Assume a 20% loss for voltage sage/internal resistance and another 15% for efficiency loss and you still have ~77.5W. 77.5W/14.7W = 5.27 Hours.

Okay so there's a lot of assumptions there but I think we can safely assume that the light is not dead flat regulated so it should manage a few (2-3?) hours above 50% then a whole long time under 50%

#### Jauno

##### Newly Enlightened
If the emitters are Q5/R2 the current to achieve 150L each is more like 450-550a. Let's say a max of 600 if they're Q4's 7 x 600 = 4.2Ah X ~3.5Vf = ~14.7W

Assuming an alkaline D cell is ~19Ah, the light uses 4 cells; 1.5 x 19 x 4 = 114W. Assume a 20% loss for voltage sage/internal resistance and another 15% for efficiency loss and you still have ~77.5W. 77.5W/14.7W = 5.27 Hours.

Okay so there's a lot of assumptions there but I think we can safely assume that the light is not dead flat regulated so it should manage a few (2-3?) hours above 50% then a whole long time under 50%

Thank you for much more knowledge assumptions
Well, let's just wait how does X-21 actual perform

Do we know what manufacturer states for runtime that max power?
I can´t find statements from US site, not from Europe site and not from local sites in my country.

When newer LL´s came out at spring/summer, in our local sites there wasn´t even mentioned that lights contains more than one light level.

There was only for example 170lumen/120hours (from 4xaaa), which is not from this earth. And maybe mentioned that switch has three levels or functions.
3 levels or functions may also indicates functions: on, off, momentary-on.
And not just light levels.

This why i dislike LedLensers. Can´t find info i need.
At their sites are most imaginary statements like "...7 ultra-bright high-performance chips and 7 terminator lenses produce a quality of light that you have never experienced before - a blazing beam that makes even car headlights look pale in comparison..."

Maybe, but some people like to know boring vital stats and how light levels are changed :shakehead

#### LiteTheWay

##### Enlightened
I was at first somewhat taken with the X7 but thinking about it more, and assuming it is a much larger version of my P7, like many LED Lensers I concluded it would disappoint - as many on these fora have pointed out about LED lenser in the past.

The flood to spot 'focussing' of my P7 is useful but I find the switching mechanism less than ideal. In particular I don't like the fact that you can't have these lights on high other than by actually holding the tail-switch on which gets tiring after a while. The switching mechanism on the X7 and P7 seems to be the same from the descriptions.

I really wanted a high performance, high-tech, multi-LED light-cannon so I went for the LumaPower MVP (from BatteryJunction) and it has so far been better on all counts than than I could have imagined.

#### jupello

##### Enlightened
Do we know what manufacturer states for runtime that max power
http://www.ledlenserusa.com/product_info.php?modelNum=8437
This site states that the max power consumption is 16.36Watts.. so little more that what Mattk calculated, but pretty close. It also states battery life of 125 hours, but that's not very useful information since it's to the 0% brightness or something like that.

When newer LL´s came out at spring/summer, in our local sites there wasn't even mentioned that lights contains more than one light level.
...
And maybe mentioned that switch has three levels or functions.
3 levels or functions may also indicates functions: on, off, momentary-on.
And not just light levels.

This why i dislike LedLensers. Can´t find info i need.

Maybe, but some people like to know boring vital stats and how light levels are changed :shakehead
That switch has low & high modes + "turbo/max" mode with momentary function. At least now there's pretty good descriptions on how the modes work on many sites.. cant blame LL if retailers dont give out enough information on their descriptions
But yeah, I agree that there are not enough information available about them.. that's partly because there's not enough LL owners here in CPF to make runtime graphs and take beamshots of them..and partly because LL has it's own way of calculating those runtimes so they're not usefull for comparison

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#### MattK

##### Flashlight Enthusiast
Thank you for much more knowledge assumptions

LOL - yah it's all guess work 'till we have one in hand. I did get to handle one for a while at SHOT last year at it's pretty damn bright not suprisingly.

I don't know why there's the impression that the button must be held dowbn to stay on hi output - the other models don't work like that.

The 16.36W actually makes sense as I see an error in my calculations as I did the efficiency loss calc on the drive side, not the battery side.

I totally agree about their marketing blap and runtime methods - useless info. I have told them as much and been told that when the flashlight standards working group comes up with a set of standards they will follow them.

7histology was obviously very wise to buy the LumaPower MVP from us. Thanks!

#### LiteTheWay

##### Enlightened
I should have written that the button has to be held down to get MAXIMUM power (not high) - my P7 works that way and I read the instructions for the X7 that way too.

And I WAS wise to get the MVP from Matt - the service has always been great. And now that Ricky at LumaPower is going to send spare O rings for the MVP to dealers (see his comments on Dealer's forum), I hope I can get some soon from you Matt.

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#### Jauno

##### Newly Enlightened
http://www.ledlenserusa.com/product_info.php?modelNum=8437
This site states that the max power consumption is 16.36Watts..

This is exactly what i meant! Flashlights are light emitting devices, not powerstations which are producing electric power, so why we even need to know watts or watthours? Of course for marketing purposes.

People at stores look at some xxx watt rated flashlight (LL..) and think they are more powerful or "better" than some real high-end flashlight which doesn´t have any watt ratings in package.

Are lithium batteries really better than alkaline batteries? What output does a battery actually have?
Oh, do batteries have also (light)output?

What output can a lamp have over a given period of time?
Depends on many things..

After many discussions, we have decided
to introduce a new term to the world of electric pocket lamps; the term energy tank.
And one more brand new and previously unreleased term for LL: energy tank !!!

The energy tank
of a battery-powered device is given by the output of all batteries in the device.
Yeah, we carry spare and extra batteries somewhere else than in flashlight.

Example:The Surefire E2L energy tank compared to the LED LENSER® P14 energy tank.
Surefire E2L:
2 x CR 123 x 1300 mAh x 3,0 Volt = 7,8 watt hours

LED LENSER P14:
4 x AA x 2800 mAh x 1,5 Volt = 16,8 watt hours
They are comparing lithiums and alkalines again by watt hours !!!
They are comparing surefire and LL by watt hours !!!

Behind these fine and maybe even true electric calculations lies the fact that alkaline batteries are much poorer performers than lithiums.

I think you´d need poop load of alkalines to much performance of one CR123 lithium cell, when you are in world of high output flashlights.

And even if this P14 model really have more "electric power", it is also larger than E2L so they are 2 different flashlights.

For example: Some 35W HID light produces much more lumens and watts than this P14 energy tank, but so what? They are 2 different devices so i couldn´t care about their watt ratings.

That switch has low & high modes + "turbo/max" mode with momentary function.
I don´t care anymore

By the way, i am doing runtime test of 1xAA P5 model. Manufacturer´s stated 65 lumens for output and runtime 8 hours.

Output maybe near correct with fresh battery, but runtime...after 2 hours of continious run output is dropped to 20 % from starting output using fresh Duracell AA cell.
And i won´t even try nimh or lithiums because alkaline are far more superior... :laughing: Aren´t they...

#### jupello

##### Enlightened
This is exactly what i meant! Flashlights are light emitting devices, not powerstations which are producing electric power, so why we even need to know watts or watthours?

I think that in this case they where just given out for technical information. It can be used to calculate how long different batteries should last in that light and so on..

They are comparing lithiums and alkalines again by watt hours !!!

Well, watt hours are pretty good unit for comparing how much energy is stored at batteries that have different V readings, since it takes that into account (V*Ah=watt hours).

And even if this P14 model really have more "electric power", it is also larger than E2L so they are 2 different flashlights.

That is true. Size is very important factor when comparing such things, so the comparison is a bit misleading.

By the way, i am doing runtime test of 1xAA P5 model. Manufacturer´s stated 65 lumens for output and runtime 8 hours.

Output maybe near correct with fresh battery, but runtime...after 2 hours of continious run output is dropped to 20 % from starting output using fresh Duracell AA cell.

Heh, that should be interesting.. please report back how long the led can put out some light
Good to know how accurate their 100% to 0% output runtime's are

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#### Kiessling

##### Flashaholic
Well, watt hours are pretty good unit for comparing how much energy is stored at batteries that have different V readings, since it takes that into account (V*Ah=watt hours).

In our case , it is not. As flashlights are fairly high-powered devices it is way more important how much of that energy can be put to use AND how fast that can be done, meaning what current draw can a battery sustain, or how high is the internal resistance.

Lithium cells exterminate alkalines in these regards. There is no comparison.

And the marketing speak by LL is just that ... a blatant lie, like so many others by that company.

bernie

#### Jauno

##### Newly Enlightened
I think that in this case they where just given out for technical information. It can be used to calculate how long different batteries should last in that light and so on..
Yeah, but about 98% of flashlight companies are not giving us watts.
So Ledlenser is hiding their lights real performance behind these electric terms.

For example this graph tells to us flashlight people more vital information than thousands of electric terms and calculations total.

Watts and watthours and whatever are useless information when comparing alkaline vs. nimh. vs. lithium.

EDIT: Results of my runtime test of P5:
Between 3-4 hours my lightbox can barely indicates that She is receiving one lux. At the start lightbox says 8900 luxes.

So for 6 hours runtime and watts and watthours and actually whole LL company from my usage :thumbsdow

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#### Juggernaut

##### Flashlight Enthusiast
Um….. this won't work:thumbsdow. At 16.8 watts and 6 volts from 4 D batteries you are pulling 2.76 amps. Well you can't pull that many amps from a Alkaline D battery and expect it to run for more then lets say… "3 seconds". My RayOvac 10D 30 watt light pulls 2.5 amps from Ds and is over driven buy 3 volts yet even with fresh batteries it instantly drops in output to a more yellow color. This LED light will drain faster and is not over driven. So it should not hold up it's output at max for more then a few seconds at best.

#### jupello

##### Enlightened
In our case , it is not. As flashlights are fairly high-powered devices it is way more important how much of that energy can be put to use AND how fast that can be done, meaning what current draw can a battery sustain, or how high is the internal resistance.

Yep, it's true that there are many of those other important factors to consider too, apart from the watt hours when choosing the right batteries.

Yeah, but about 98% of flashlight companies are not giving us watts.
So Ledlenser is hiding their lights real performance behind these electric terms.

For example this graph tells to us flashlight people more vital information than thousands of electric terms and calculations total.

Watts and watthours and whatever are useless information when comparing alkaline vs. nimh. vs. lithium.

Many companies think that consumers are not interested about such details.. but I don't think they are trying to hide anything with it since it's just extra information that might or might not be useful for some. Their lumen readings seem to be pretty accurate and runtime readings little less accurate

It would surely be nice to see more of those runtime graphs from LL products too, but unfortunately pretty much all of them are still being made by private flashacholics and unfortunately many have not chose to get one of the LL's and make runtime graph out of it :sigh:

And I wouldnt call battery's capacity useless information, it's just one thing to consider among the others.. but yes, alkaline is pretty inferior to those other chemistries in many ways

#### Jauno

##### Newly Enlightened
Their lumen readings seem to be pretty accurate and runtime readings little less accurate
Yeah, they do.

It would surely be nice to see more of those runtime graphs from LL products too, but unfortunately pretty much all of them are still being made by private flashacholics and unfortunately many have not chose to get one of the LL's and make runtime graph out of it :sigh:
Maybe because LL is from Europe and most of their popular competitors come from USA and China. And most of those who do reviews are from USA and can get Chinese lights very easily with free shipping, but not from Europe as easily..

And I wouldnt call battery's capacity useless information,
No, it´s not but the point is that LL is trying to tell the world that 4xAA alkaline batteries are "better" than 2xCR123´s by calculating their watt hours.
And even more:

Zinc-carbon-batteries
The zinc-carbon battery was invented by the German chemist Bunsen in 1841...
Alkaline batteries are somewhat more expensive than zinc-carbon batteries, however, they come up favourably measured against the energy reservoir they
contain. Their storage capacity is very good, they can be stored for between 5 and 7 years, and also perform well at moderate minus temperatures. They are
available at very low prices at discount supermarkets. Always look for the term "alkaline" when purchasing!
We flashlight community are talking about lithiums (AA/AAA/CR123), li-ions and nimh´s over alkalines, while they are talking about alkalines over this zinc-carbon thing:laughing:

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#### StandardBattery

##### Flashlight Enthusiast

Energy Tank:
Are lithium batteries really better than alkaline batteries? What output does a battery actually have?
What output can a lamp have over a given period of time? After many discussions, we have decided
to introduce a new term to the world of electric pocket lamps; the term energy tank. The energy tank
of a battery-powered device is given by the output of all batteries in the device.
Example:The Surefire E2L energy tank compared to the LED LENSER® P14 energy tank.
Surefire E2L:
2 x CR 123 x 1300 mAh x 3,0 Volt = 7,8 watt hours

LED LENSER P14:
4 x AA x 2800 mAh x 1,5 Volt = 16,8 watt hours

I have to admit "Energy Tank" really got me laughing. This careful analysis that they present also convinced me that this company HAS SERIOUS ISSUES. I have a feeling there are some real ??cks working in the boardrooms there.

Their products are what they are and they should just be happy with that, they have a nice niche they don't really need to be marketing dorks.

But really they better call Webster and Oxford right now.

#### MillerMods

##### Flashlight Enthusiast
Um….. this won't work:thumbsdow. At 16.8 watts and 6 volts from 4 D batteries you are pulling 2.76 amps. Well you can't pull that many amps from a Alkaline D battery and expect it to run for more then lets say… "3 seconds". ....

Exactly what I was thinking. More than 1.5 amps from an alkaline D cell for any length of time isn't going to happen. That light would need 10-12 Ahr NIMH D's and an appropriate driver.

#### Art

##### Enlightened
Why is it that each time Led lenser is "talked" the topic ends up always about the same thing?

#### jupello

##### Enlightened
Exactly what I was thinking. More than 1.5 amps from an alkaline D cell for any length of time isn't going to happen. That light would need 10-12 Ahr NIMH D's and an appropriate driver.

There seem to be something wrong in these theories.. but luckily some people here already own it, and have given real life information about the runtime (LINK).