New Guy with L4 lumamax Question

[solowgregg]

Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum and flashlights all together. I recently bought a surefire L4 lumamax and I'll never go back to mags. I've got a few start off questions if you guys don't mind.

1. Does anyone know where I can get a 2008 surefire catalog?

2. I've noticed that some of you are customizing your surefire flashlights through means of cannibalization. I've seen some pretty cool lights this way. Does anyone know what I can do to the L4?

3. What should I expect to pay for a used M6 Guardian on here?

Thanks.

 

[Illum]

Due to heavy demand all the paper ones have left and only PDF versions are available. but for future reference you can find them here
http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main.pl?pgm=co_catreq&func=disp&strfnbr=6&sesent=0,0
I'd post a BST thread and see if someone has one new for sale

Congratulations on your L4, I hope you will like it as much as I did. The L4 is compatible with all parts in the E-Series, meaning the body, tailcap, and bezel can be used on the E2e, E1e, etc. Other than perhaps investing in a new LED head [KX series rather than KL series will give you better performance at less heat], no doubt you have already noticed that the L4 can burn skin after only a couple of minutes in use.
Heres a review and a runtime plot that may prove useful for you
http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/surefire_l4.htm

Typically the M6s from the forum will vary between $300 and $400, with some idiots [pardon the bluntness] that decides to sell by MSRP but they will, eventually, price drop into this range. I scored a used Magnum Light [old version M6] for $280 from the forum, so check it every so often...you never know when theres an untaken one that has the right price :devil:

Happy shopping :wave: and cheers😀

 

[solowgregg]

I saw a thread a while back where someone had "custom" bodies for sale, does anyone know where that thread is? Or just any thread on the same? I'd like to see what is possible with the L4.

 

[solowgregg]

Also, can I mod this thing to use some sort of rechargeables?

 

[Illum]

were are my manners, :welcome:

I saw a thread a while back where someone had "custom" bodies for sale, does anyone know where that thread is? Or just any thread on the same? I'd like to see what is possible with the L4.

well, your probably thinking of the Leef bodies [bearing its name was created by user leef on the forum:thumbsup:] there are some available in lighthound.com under custom flashlights and parts, but dont expect them to have stock all the time. Look for ones with "E series head" if you are actually going to buy one [Im not sure if such selections are still available], they are mainly used to allow the use of rechargeables and or egronomics.:huh:

Since the L4's LED head [KL4] is a boost circuit, it can and will run very efficiently on one RCR123A or any other lithium secondarys [also known as lithium-ions] 🙂
What may work withouthaving to buy any custom parts is using a 17670 cell, whch will take up the space of two cr123As, but some bodies can accept 17670s while some cannot. I was privileged to have bought one that can accomodate one. While it is possible to use 2xRCR123As in the L4 there has been a mixed outcome with some arguing that it can work while others insisting that the KL4 will be short lived. Either way, keep in mind that running rechargeables will void surefires guarantee.

Over time you will touch on batteries such as 13640, 14500, 17670, 17500, 18500, 18650, etc. The way you read them goes as follows: 17670 => 17mm wide, 67mm long, 0 represents cylindrical.
A few general ideas to know:
16340 = RCR123A
17670 = [sizewise] 2xCR123as
Protected lithium ions are recommended for overcharge and overdischarge protection. For best performance, many here [me included] will recommend you AW's protected cells. [available in lighthound or on BST user user AW]
Recently theres a type or rechargeable lithium that provides 3.0V, I'm not sure what those are to tell you the truth. Most lithium secondaries are still marked 3.6V nominal, 4.2V peak around here.

2xRCR123As fully charged will yield 8.4V Open circuit [2xCR123A = 6V] and since the L4 utilizes a boost circuit, for the better part of the RCR123As capacity [before the voltage sag] will be direct driving the luxV, which will shorten its life span.:shakehead
Since 17670s, like all cylindrical lithium ion cells have a peak voltage of 4.2V, it fools the L4 thinking its running on two nearly spent CR123As. Which doesn't affect its output and powers the L4 the way its intended to.:wave:

If 17670 doesn't fit you could always go with 14650, but you might need a spacer for proper conduction and some shims to dampen battery rattling

Heres some links that may be of help:thumbsup:
KL4 AND 17670 LITHIUON-ION CELL [rechargeable ?'s]:thumbsup:
SureFire L4 (KL4) owners only [technical thread]
Surefire L4, throw, spot or flood? [characteristics]
Surefire L4 - Rechargeable 3.0v cr123a's [rechargeable ?'s]
Surefire L4 with 2 R123 - Bad idea? [rechargeable ?'s]
L4 Lumamax [general discussion]
Surefire L4 or Surefire L2? [comparison]
Compared SF L4 vs Inova T3 [comparison]
Rechargeable Li-ion battery question - I'm confussed [?'s on rechargeable cells]
Surefire L4: efficient and economical battery solution? [rechargeable ?'s]
L4 body with 17670's [rechargeable ?'s]
Just bought an L4 [some just like you 😉]
L4 dimmer suggestions/critique wanted [modifications, I dont think your there yet]


the best thing about CPF is its library of good threads, use the google search option on the title bar whenever you have questions.

Hope this helps, Cheers:thumbsup:

 

[solowgregg]

Thanks for the info Illum. I've already got a nice size order I'm getting ready to place with lighthound.com.

 

[Illum]

your !!!

I own 3 L4s....they seem to attract buddies

 

[DM51]

Welcome to CPF, solowgregg!

I'm going to move your thread to the LED Flashlight section, as it is primarily about the SF L4.

When you have a moment, take a look round the forum structure, to see where different topics belong. The layout can be confusing to start with, but it will soon begin to make sense to you.

I'll leave a short-term redirect link here, but you should be able to track the thread anyway if you have the option set to subscribe to it.

 

[Gunner12]

:welcome:

You can ask around and see if people have catalogs they are willing to give up. Some stores might also have them.

Surefires seems to be hard to mod.

When the newer 4 die Cree come out, you might be able to send your L4 to someone and swap in the newer LED for at least double the output(The L4 is a good light but it does use a last gen LED, the only quad die current gen LED is the Seoul P7, which has a different voltage requirement and a different package size).

The quad die LED will give you a similar beam pattern as what you have now. If you don't mind a narrower beam pattern, you can make you light brighter. 150 lumen out the front is quite possible, you'll get more runtime too, the current gen LEDs are twice or more efficient then the last gen ones.

The M6 guardian seems to go for around $300, but the lowest I've seen is $100.

You can also get similar or more performance out of a Maglite at $100. But then you won't have Surefire quality.

 

[Illum]

The M6 guardian seems to go for around $300, but the lowest I've seen is $100

😱 Oh lordy, thats so cheap its almost insulting

 

[Gunner12]

Well, someone did get one at a Flea market for $12 with batteries.

 

[xcel730]

I was just a few minutes late from snagging that M6 and 10x for $250. It's quite a steal. I don't want the 10x, and I'm sure I could sell it for about $200, making the M6 = $50. 😗 Anyway, it's water under the bridge now and way off topic

solowgregg, :welcome:

If you want to mod your L4, you could contact MilkySpit. He's very well known in this forum, and absolutely a great guy to do business with. I recently sent my L1 to him to get modded ... he did the following for me:

(1) Change the TIR optic to Ultra Clear (UCL) lens
(2) Add his so-called smoothie reflector
(3) Changed the driver to MadMax+
(4) Changed the CREE Led to Seoul SSC P4

He's sending the light back to me, and I'm very eager to get it. This light will be able to run off both CR123a and rechargable RCR123a, spit out about 200 lumens (rechargable) / 165 lumens (primary) on high and around 15 lumens (rechargable) / 10 lumens (primary) on low.

 

[solowgregg]

(1) Change the TIR optic to Ultra Clear (UCL) lens
(2) Add his so-called smoothie reflector
(3) Changed the driver to MadMax+
(4) Changed the CREE Led to Seoul SSC P4

He's sending the light back to me, and I'm very eager to get it. This light will be able to run off both CR123a and rechargable RCR123a, spit out about 200 lumens (rechargable) / 165 lumens (primary) on high and around 15 lumens (rechargable) / 10 lumens (primary) on low.

What did that cost you? That's sounds like something I'd look into.

 

[xcel730]

Scott's mods usually start around $85, and it depends on what you need. I would contact him for more detailed quote.

What did that cost you? That's sounds like something I'd look into.

 

[bezel]

For the L4 I would recommend a few UNprotected 17670 li-ion rechargeables with a "button" positive contact and a recharger with built-in overcharge protection.
It has been my experience that there is no need for a protected cells IN THE L4 as long as you are using SINGLE 17670s.
Very convenient and very cheap if you plan to run it a lot.
I personally would NOT recommend using two 123 rechargeables in the L4 for various reasons.

regards,

bezel

 

[solowgregg]

For the L4 I would recommend a few UNprotected 17670 li-ion rechargeables with a "button" positive contact and a recharger with built-in overcharge protection.
It has been my experience that there is no need for a protected cells IN THE L4 as long as you are using SINGLE 17670s.
Very convenient and very cheap if you plan to run it a lot.
I personally would NOT recommend using two 123 rechargeables in the L4 for various reasons.

regards,

bezel

Lighthound.com told me to go with rechargeable 123's, Illum told me to go
with protected 17670, and you've told me to go with unprotected cells. Hahaha well now I have no idea what to do.

 

[Illum]

well, use unprotected cells if you have the ability to rationalize your runtime to prevent over discharging the cell and follow recommendations to proper condition of the cell for the life of those cells:candle:

protect cells means four things:

1. It will shut itself off when the remaining capacity drops below 20%, yielding about 3.7V so if you accidentally left it on or intentionally doing an extended discharge you wont harm your cells.
2. Second, there isn't many good lithium chargers out there [pila excluded] and whether its ultrafire or DSD doesn't seem to cut off charging voltage even after the cell reached the absolute maximum of 4.2V. protection cuts out charging when it hits this level, on the DSD charger the light would go from green to alternating indicating the battery has cut off. Unprotected cells require CONSTANT ATTENTION during charging not to over charge it.
3. 3rd, the protection circuit prevents thermal runaway in the event of a dead short by acting as the gate to the cell. Should the PCB be fried due to a short circuit, it can be removed leaving you a functioning unprotected cell.
4. Fourth, AW's protected cells specify a certain amount of current that can be drawn from the cell before the battery becomes unstable. Typical limits are 2-2.5C [C = the capacity of a battery]. ex. an AW protected 17670 cell has 1600mah capacity, 1C discharge equates to 1.6 amps, 2C = 3.2 amps, etc. Any higher and your lucky if the cell just dies.

I take it that bezel is considering the protected cells an unnecessary luxury. But its best to use caution when you are not affiliated or familiar with using these cells:thumbsup:
After all, its a learning process, think of protection as "training wheels":wave:

 

[maxa beam]

Welcome to CPF!

I have an extra 2008 catalog if you need it.


The L4 is legendary IMO. The color tempurature is unreal for an LED light (in most cases), it's reliable, the interface is absolutely idiot-proof, and 1 hour of a solid, creamy wall of light and 2.5 hours of usefull stuff is great. I recently bought one and it easily replaced my Novatac for around-the-house usage due to it's beam.

 

[Illum]

The L4 is legendary IMO. The color temperature is unreal for an LED light (in most cases), ...

you kinda have to keep in mine that luxeon lottery applies to Surefire. I'm pretty sure surefire uses at least W bin luxeon Vs, but not consistent in tint
I have one warm white tint, one cool white tint, and one green white tint.
You wont notice the difference stand alone, but you can pretty much forget buying a pair of L4s with the same tint😉

 

[maxa beam]

you kinda have to keep in mine that luxeon lottery applies to Surefire. I'm pretty sure surefire uses at least W bin luxeon Vs, but not consistent in tint
I have one warm white tint, one cool white tint, and one green white tint.
You wont notice the difference stand alone, but you can pretty much forget buying a pair of L4s with the same tint😉

Well, at least in the case of mine, I'd almost compare it to an incan.