Newbie Looking For Light...

[Jack Reacher]

Hi there guys,

First time poster here (from the land of the Vegemite sandwich) so please be gentle!

I'm looking to buy my first LED torch, and I don't know a lot about them technically speaking, but I've read just about every review on this site over the past few weeks. I must say how impressed I am by the standard of the reviews; they're truly amazing, both from a purely technical standpoint and as a well-weighted user opinion. May I commend those members who've obviously taken so much of their personal time and care with their tests and data write-ups, and beam shots. To an apprentice flasher like me, they're a priceless source of unbiased info. (Flasher...? Dunno 'bout that; doesn't sound quite right.) Apprentice flashee maybe?

Anyway...

I have half a dozen torches already picked out for consideration, but which I won't name until you guys have given me some clues (and then I'll maybe see how far off my choices were LOL).

In a nutshell (or in this case an anodised Al body) my criteria are:

• Preferably AA lithiums with 18650s as a second choice. I've already got a stack of Eneloops sitting on my desk.
• SST-50 would be nice, with MC-E a close second I guess? I'd like to avoid any "cree rings".
• Overall length around 25cm max (including extension tube).
• Loaded mass not important.
• Run time on "high" at least 75 mins min; "med" around 2 hrs min. Low run-time not critical.
• Throw 250m min. Also a wide, localised spill would be nice. I'd prefer a graduated edge fade rather than a sharply defined spill cut-off. I'd prefer a wider-angle thrower rather than a tightly focused spotlight.
• Head-end sliders are nice, but tail-end clicky OK if not more than 4 functions. Don't really like rotating head functions - prefer one switch to do everything.
• Reflector? Probably prefer OP but will need smooth for throw? Maybe parabolic OP rather than shallow smooth?
• OTF lumens? Dunno. ~60 min. and ~550 max? Strobe's a nice gimmick, but not a "must have".
• Don't need assault bezels, lanyards, clips, filters, gun mounts. Rain-proofing is sufficient and minimum duty drop protection OK. Interchangeable pills would be a luxury?
• Quality-wise I'd prefer to run a Volkswagen Beetle at 100mph rather than a Rolls Royce at 35mph.
• I'm prepared to pay up to AUD$200 (USD185 or GBP120).

BTW, I'm not a hunter/climber/bushwalker/cyclist/fisherman/camper. This is for around the outside of my house, the yards, and down the street out front.

I'll now await your considered opinions guys, and I'm guessing some of my "wants" will undoubtedly make some of you smile. I would however appreciate as little out-loud guffawing and thigh-slapping as possible LOL.

— Jack.

 

[DM51]

Welcome to CPF, Jack Reacher.

As you have specified your new light must be LED, I'll move your thread from General Flashlights into LED Flashlights.

 

[Jack Reacher]

Thanks DM51...

I'm sick of lugging a monstrous 6V SLA, 3 gazillion candlepower, 5kg incan spotty around with me, so the time has definitely arrived for me to buy an LED.

—Jack

 

[Latango]

I'd advocate the Fenix tk40. Mine cost me about 160 aud on ebay, and it's awesome. 4 brightness levels (630 highest) with sos/strobe/couple other things, tough as hell, only downside is that it's AA only. I use 8 powerex 2700mAH aa's in mine and use it every night for bushwalking with my 4 yr old before he goes to bed (need to wear him down a bit to get him to sleep).

More of a flood than a thrower, but it's a brilliant light.

 

[Jack Reacher]

TK40...

Thanks Latango...

The TK40 was actually one of my "possibles"! Along with the TK30.

I prefer AAs (even 8 of 'em) as I have a stack of Eneloops already. Did you order it from an overseas (read HK) seller, or a local Aussie seller? I've found most HK sellers only accept PayPal -- which I totally refuse to use.

—Jack

 

[AardvarkSagus]

Re: TK40...

A few of those options seem to be a little mutually exclusive. 550 lumens from a SST-50 is pretty reasonable, but you won't be finding it with AA's without using a large stack of them. The 18650 option is far more likely.

I know you were mentioning SST-50 or MC-E are preferred, but have you considered a hard driven XP-G? General use around the house with decent high and roughly 60 lumens mode to me say you might want to consider the EagleTac T20C2. It does have some of the extra clips, lanyards and stuff, but you don't have to use them. They are all removable. The famed "Cree ring" from the XR-E's is completely nonexistent in the XP package and that light is getting a solid 300 lumens out the front (380 at the emitter). It's 60 lumen general mode will take care of the majority of your lighting needs while giving you quite a long runtime. If necessary, it also has a 5 lumen Low that you can get to for extremely long use. It is 18650 powered but will also run very well on 2xCR123A's.

The same format is available with an AA power source as well, but the P20A2 is even lower yet on High so you are really getting away from your desired power.

Both these lights are available with a nice OP reflector that has a spectacularly smooth beam and yet remains fairly tightly focused.

To avoid the sharp drop off from the spill beam however, the only methods I know of are using lensing rather than reflectors. The Malkoff M60 in my Elzetta ZFL-M60 has that type of graduated beam that really just fades to obscurity rather than a sharp cutoff. With the optional 2 stage switch it does have your multiple modes but both are lower than you are asking, rather than just one.

I don't know whether this is of any use to you at all because I have stayed away from the AA's, but I personally have enjoyed the other power options better. The bonus is, these lights are far smaller than things like the TK40 and therefor much more portable.

 

[Jack Reacher]

Thanks for your suggestions AardvarkSagus...

Unfortunately (and I did check its excellent review) the Elzetta isn't available from any local sellers, and I really prefer to buy from somewhere in Oz particularly from a warranty and/or spare parts perspective. We're really at a disadvantage re LED torches downunder, as there's not nearly the local availability that there is in the US or the UK. Which is strange considering that China is probably our major international trading partner, and distance-wise, we're a lot closer than America.

The Eagletac is certainly a nice torch, but I feel (here in Oz at least) that it's a bit overpriced at $120 for 250 lumens. I guess I'm just as happy to get a "lower" build quality but higher OTF lumens for the same dollars. I have beer tastes rather than champers LOL.

I'm not too concerned about the bulk of the TK40 (or any torch — within reason), as it wouldn't be used as an EDC; more a "sitting-ready-on-a-shelf-inside-the-front-door" kind of usage.

—Cheers.

 

[Russ/TN]

Check out the Dereelight Javelin.
With, or without the 3AA extension tube I think it might suit you.

 

[AardvarkSagus]

Thanks for your suggestions AardvarkSagus...

Unfortunately (and I did check its excellent review) the Elzetta isn't available from any local sellers, and I really prefer to buy from somewhere in Oz particularly from a warranty and/or spare parts perspective. We're really at a disadvantage re LED torches downunder, as there's not nearly the local availability that there is in the US or the UK. Which is strange considering that China is probably our major international trading partner, and distance-wise, we're a lot closer than America.

The Eagletac is certainly a nice torch, but I feel (here in Oz at least) that it's a bit overpriced at $120 for 250 lumens. I guess I'm just as happy to get a "lower" build quality but higher OTF lumens for the same dollars. I have beer tastes rather than champers LOL.

I'm not too concerned about the bulk of the TK40 (or any torch — within reason), as it wouldn't be used as an EDC; more a "sitting-ready-on-a-shelf-inside-the-front-door" kind of usage.

—Cheers.

No worries, just letting you know what I have experienced. Yeah, I didn't look into what was available locally for you, sorry about that. The best price I was able to find quickly on the EagleTac was AU$114 and it doesn't look like it's the Mark II Digital version with the true 300 OTF lumens either.

 

[Jack Reacher]

Check out the Dereelight Javelin.
With, or without the 3AA extension tube I think it might suit you.

Thanks Russ...

The Javelin — although well-priced in Oz at $65-95 — is only(!) 190 lumens with the XP-G R5, OP reflector and 2xAAs. With the ext tube + an extra AA it's 230 or 260 lumens — depending on whose review you read.

To give you guys a better idea of the sort of beam I'm looking for, this is a shot from a local review site of the above 190 lumen Javelin:

The shed is 25m (82ft) from the torch (and it's a pale green colour which doesn't help!). I'm really looking for a wider spill beam than this, although it is a nice well-spread (no?) hot spot and smooth corona. Just very little spill.

The other thing that's confused me somewhat — and I quote from Dereelight's web site:
"The XP-G emitter has the relative VF, do not recommend use new 3xAA batteries with the extension tube."

What does this mean exactly?

I also apologise for all these noob questions (which I'm sure you guys have read a zillion time through gritted teeth LOL) but I've realised there's a hell of a lot to learn about LED flashlight technology all in a relatively short time.

—Cheers.

 

[Jack Reacher]

.....The best price I was able to find quickly on the EagleTac was AU$114 and it doesn't look like it's the Mark II Digital version with the true 300 OTF lumens either.

Thanks again AardvarkSagus...

That's a good price for sure, but non-AAs puts me off (at least in these early days).

The other issue I'm confused about is whether the various manufacturers list their output specs as emitter lumens or OTF lumens? A few actually do specify which, but most don't. I understand that very roughly-speaking, OTF lumens = 65% emitter lumens. Yes?

How does one determine which it is — other than enquiring directly of the manufacturer?

—Jack. :thinking:

 

[AardvarkSagus]

From what I have seen, if the company doesn't specify OTF lumens, it's actually emitter lumens. The three I know of for certain that use OTF are Surefire (pioneered it actually), 4Sevens, and just recently, EagleTac. There may be others, but I can't think of them offhand.

Out of curiosity, how did you arrive at your desired high level output numbers?

 

[Jash]

Hi Jack,

Sounds like you do want the TK40. It's a great light and slotting in 8 batteries is no big deal so long as you can tell a + from a - .

I live in Brisbane and there is a local up here who orders bulk stuff from 4sevens and offers GREAT (cheaper than you'll buy anywhere) discounts to CPF members.

I've bought nearly all my lights through him and saved a bunch. Have more on order (Fenix HP10 and Quark AA Tactical as well as a few li-ion batts) and it only takes about 7-8 days to arrive once he puts in the order.

Send me a personal message if you want some details. He's only too happy to help fellow flashaholics with their addiction.

 

[Jack Reacher]

Thanks again AardvarkSagus...

I'll have a closer look at the Surefire, 4Sevens, and EagleTac offerings based on that. This'll quite probably be the only flashlight I'll be buying for the foreseeable future, so I need to be sure it's the one for me. I'm not gonna ever become a 'flashaholic' I'm afraid to say (or happy, depending on one's point of view LOL). And yeah... I know... I know! That's one of the reasons I'm opting for a higher lumen output with this initial purchase — figuring I'll never have to upgrade over time. If I were to buy, say a 200 lumen, then I may well need to upgrade down the track.

And thanks too Jash...

The TK40 is high on my list, so I appreciate you letting me know about 4sevens and their delivery (to Oz) and pricing stuff. I'll be checking out their site tonight.



...and another noob question, if I may guys.
[EDIT: Deleted question asking about P60 hosts. Have found relevant thread.]

If LED technology makes a quantum leap in the not-too-distant future, will these current P60 manufacturers incorporate the latest tech into these pills? Or could the P60 (as a long-term concept) go the way of Beta video tapes?

— Cheers, Jack.

 

[Jack Reacher]

Uh... anybody?

..... The other thing that's confused me somewhat — and I quote from Dereelight's web site:
"The XP-G emitter has the relative VF, do not recommend use new 3xAA batteries with the extension tube."

What does this mean exactly?

I couldn't find the term "relative VF" anywhere; do they mean FV, as in 'forward voltage' and if they do, then what's a relative VF?

And what exactly do Dereelight mean about new AAs?
New technology (as in LiFePo4) or new as in freshly-charged batteries?

—Jack.

 

[yatsunil]

Firstly :welcome:.

How about a MG RX1 from Shiningbeam? I don't own one ...YET! But have been reading up on it. Seems like a decent light for the $$$$$. Kinda fits your beer over champers comment. :thumbsup:

 

[hyperloop]

Firstly :welcome:.

How about a MG RX1 from Shiningbeam? I don't own one ...YET! But have been reading up on it. Seems like a decent light for the $$$$$. Kinda fits your beer over champers comment. :thumbsup:

+1 on this light, decent quality, cheap for what it does. I bought one for my brother (warm tint, meaning leaning towards yellow rather than blue-white) and he loves it.

found a site that sells Fenix in Australia, though i am not sure if you aren't better off ordering from 4sevens which has free international shipping and also a discount code "CPF8" and if i recall correctly, you have more than one method of payment.

oh, and :welcome:

 

[Jack Reacher]

Thanks for the welcome guys... :wave:

And the heads up on the MG RX1 (which I hadn't seen before in my searches). It certainly fits my criteria, with the exception of not using AAs. Seems to have a very usable spill (which is important to me) while not losing out in the throw department too much. I'm quite surprised at its performance considering it utilises only 1x 18650.

I'd like some clarification as to whether or not it's regulated, as Craig's run-time graph almost gives the impression it's not, but ShiningBeam's site says it is. It drops steadily to around 75% output in about 25 minutes according to Craig's graph (which later seems to generate some discussions about his battery's status during the test).

Is there another review of the MG RX1 anywhere?

—Cheers, Jack.

 

[yatsunil]

+1 on this light, decent quality, cheap for what it does. I bought one for my brother (warm tint, meaning leaning towards yellow rather than blue-white) and he loves it.

Ha! Ha! Hyperloop was the guy who put me on to the MG RX1 . And now I can't stop thinking about it although an Eagletac t20c2 II is also crying out....as is a Ray D1, Dmini VX ultra etc.

 

[hyperloop]

Hi Jack,

looking at your needs, you may not even need the max mode of the RX-1 all that often, my brother has reported that he doesn't need max all that often and he uses it primarily for geocaching and it can get pretty dark in those places.

max (he said) was for seeing really far and he found the low and medium to be more useful.

Still, at an output of 700 lumens, a drop to 75% is still a respectable 525 lumens. Why not just buy it and try it? If you don't like it, hang on to it till you find something better then sell it off. I'm sure it will be better than what you currently use (12v SLA), the RX-1 is a very small light for the amount of output it gives.